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Rental value of HGVC?

Tamaradarann

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DVC is one of those. While "commercial" renting is technically against the rules, since renting, in general, is OK, it's not enforced. There are agencies that acquire and rent out DVC points as a business. And this has gone on for some time. And people who own a (sometimes quite large) set of points specifically for renting.

Cheers.
I think that bringing up some of problems with a timeshare system allowing wild renting of club reservations is important. To give an example of an extreme abuse one could buy a load of points with low maintenance in Las Vegas on the resale market, make a load of club reservations during a peak time in Honolulu using up the tight inventory, and then rent out those weeks for a profit. Members who want to make club reservations for their own use could be locked out.
 

dayooper

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I agree with both of your points, including the "where to draw the line" part. It is certainly possible, for example, that someone may have more points than they currently need on an annual basis, so they allow "friends" to stay periodically. However, they know that, within a few years, they are very likely to be using all of their points, so this is an interim thing. One scenario, anyway.

Cheers.

I have a friend that has more points than she can use and her health limits her Travel. She rents those points to friends and family. This is well within the rules.

If you are renting out with the purpose of making rental income, advertising on AirBnB, VBRO, Redweek and like, even if it’s for a few years, than you rent your home week. That’s well within the rules.
 

CalGalTraveler

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I believe the issue with "commercialization" is with mega-renters and people renting out club reservations. Not with a single home week property on AirBnB or a property placed with a superhost or rental agency.

If it is your home week, it shouldn't matter if you use AirBnB, VRBO, Redweek or whatever to advertise your unit. It is your right as the deeded property owner to use and advertise it any way you wish; why should Club traders who are arbitraging Vegas points have a higher priority right to use your property than the owner who paid a premium and have a deeded ownership has a right to use with their home week?

People have health or family issues or cannot travel for a period of time. Why limit their ability to recoup their maint fee and make a profit if possible? Renting is also a way to ensure fewer defaults and healthy HOAs.
 
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brp

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I have a friend that has more points than she can use and her health limits her Travel. She rents those points to friends and family. This is well within the rules.

Well, technically not unless Home Week. But this is something I'm definitely good with.

Cheers.
 

dayooper

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Well, technically not unless Home Week. But this is something I'm definitely good with.

Cheers.

Actually, it is. She can rent club bookings to friends, family and acquaintances. Since she rents to people she actually knows in real life, it’s well with the rules set forth by HGVC.

That being said, I really don’t have a problem with someone trying to recoup some of their MF’s on points they aren’t using. It’s the mega renters that I worry about. I’ve seen talk on other forums of people buying huge sums of points and using (gaming) the system to use up high demand weeks. That’s the issue I have.

I believe the issue with "commercialization" is with mega-renters and people renting out club reservations. Not with a single home week property on AirBnB or a property placed with a superhost or rental agency.

If it is your home week, it shouldn't matter if you use AirBnB, VRBO, Redweek or whatever to advertise your unit. It is your right as the deeded property owner to use and advertise it any way you wish; why should Club traders who are arbitraging Vegas points have a higher priority right to use your property than the owner who paid a premium and have a deeded ownership has a right to use with their home week?

People have health or family issues or cannot travel for a period of time. Why limit their ability to recoup their maint fee and make a profit if possible? This is also a way to ensure fewer defaults and healthy HOAs.

It’s the mega renters that I’m more worried about. Of course they can recoup some of their MF’s and advertise. It’s not in the rules, but a week here and there isn’t an issue. It’s those that make it a business that’s a problem.

Again, the question is where do you draw the line. When does renting to cover MF’s cross into renting as a business?
 

brp

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Actually, it is. She can rent club bookings to friends, family and acquaintances. Since she rents to people she actually knows in real life, it’s well with the rules set forth by HGVC.?

OK. I had not realized that being compensated for these reservations was within the rules. Since they would have no way of knowing, I haven't checked in detail, but thought that the paying part was not allowed. Good to know that the rules do permit compensation.

Cheers.
 

terces

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Nope. Friends are friends. Need not be related. And HGVC has no notion of just how we might know each other, so there is little risk. Of course, if they talk about a "rental," that's not good. But, beyond that, no coordination is needed.




I agree with both of your points, including the "where to draw the line" part. It is certainly possible, for example, that someone may have more points than they currently need on an annual basis, so they allow "friends" to stay periodically. However, they know that, within a few years, they are very likely to be using all of their points, so this is an interim thing. One scenario, anyway.

Cheers.
Where renting is clearly over the line is when the rentals are through Airbnb or VRBO or one of the known commercial operators. If these guys are infiltrating the system they will scoop up high value inventory as they are doing in Wyndham. The only thing we can do as owners is be vigilant. If I happen to strike up a conversation with someone who is at a resort under these kind of rental conditions I would make sure the front desk has it reported in writing with copy to HGVC.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Where renting is clearly over the line is when the rentals are through Airbnb or VRBO or one of the known commercial operators. If these guys are infiltrating the system they will scoop up high value inventory as they are doing in Wyndham. The only thing we can do as owners is be vigilant. If I happen to strike up a conversation with someone who is at a resort under these kind of rental conditions I would make sure the front desk has it reported in writing with copy to HGVC.

Your comments indicate that you do not understand how AirBnB or VRBO or rental management works. These are advertisers for individual property owners similar to TUG or Redweek. Any owner should be able to list their home week at these sites. Why should timeshare advertising rights be limited as a deeded owner of the property?

Besides, if I decide to give my home week for a professional management company to respond to rental queries on my behalf because I don't want to spend time with tire kickers, why should anyone care? The owner is opting to give up a percentage of their rental revenue to the management company. How does anyone lose out if this is their home week which they have a right to use?

My understanding is the problems arise in WorldMark because there are no deeded weeks and mega-renters use up the points at the best resorts making best units unavailable to the average user.

HGVC is different. If someone owns the best weeks in HI or NYC or OF Carolinas during event weeks, then they should be able to rent out their unit(s) all they want. It is their deeded right and they paid a premium so this should take priority over club. If it is a business or not, who cares? They own the deed and paid a premium for it.

Issues arise during club week rentals where it may begin to look like a WorldMark problem. However I don't think this is currently a big issue. If it does, HGVC will do like the Feds and crack down on a big mega-renter to get the ants to comply.
 
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hurnik

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I have a friend that has more points than she can use and her health limits her Travel. She rents those points to friends and family. This is well within the rules.

If you are renting out with the purpose of making rental income, advertising on AirBnB, VBRO, Redweek and like, even if it’s for a few years, than you rent your home week. That’s well within the rules.

Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything. Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.

From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:

"The
Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for
commercial purposes or monetary or other
consideration by Members or their guests,

including the use of a confirmed reservation
in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale
or other commercial use (other than an
Owner’s Home Week
) including through the
use of Guest Certificates."

The bolding is mine. The underlined part is mine as well.
 

brp

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Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything. Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.

From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:

"The
Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for
commercial purposes or monetary or other
consideration by Members or their guests,

including the use of a confirmed reservation
in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale
or other commercial use (other than an
Owner’s Home Week
) including through the
use of Guest Certificates."

The bolding is mine. The underlined part is mine as well.

Thanks. This is what I thought I had remembered.

Cheers.
 

dayooper

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Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything. Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.

From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:

"The
Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for
commercial purposes or monetary or other
consideration by Members or their guests,

including the use of a confirmed reservation
in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale
or other commercial use (other than an
Owner’s Home Week
) including through the
use of Guest Certificates."

The bolding is mine. The underlined part is mine as well.

I stand corrected. Thanks.
 

dayooper

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Your comments indicate that you do not understand how AirBnB or VRBO or rental management works. These are advertisers for individual property owners similar to TUG or Redweek. Any owner should be able to list their home week at these sites. Why should timeshare advertising rights be limited as a deeded owner of the property?

Besides, if I decide to give my home week for a professional management company to respond to rental queries on my behalf because I don't want to spend time with tire kickers, why should anyone care? The owner is opting to give up a percentage of their rental revenue to the management company. How does anyone lose out if this is their home week which they have a right to use?

My understanding is the problems arise in WorldMark because there are no deeded weeks and mega-renters use up the points at the best resorts making best units unavailable to the average user.

HGVC is different. If someone owns the best weeks in HI or NYC or OF Carolinas during event weeks, then they should be able to rent out their unit(s) all they want. It is their deeded right and they paid a premium so this should take priority over club. If it is a business or not, who cares? They own the deed and paid a premium for it.

Issues arise during club week rentals where it may begin to look like a WorldMark problem. However I don't think this is currently a big issue. If it does, HGVC will do like the Feds and crack down on a big mega-renter to get the ants to comply.

Absolutely they can rent their home weeks as they see fit. Never said they couldn’t. It’s those that use club bookings to get the best weeks to rent that bother me. I have Flamingo points that I may never use my home week for. If we went, we probably would stay at Elara or the Boulevard (they have 3 bedrooms) or would would want a midweek start to our vacation (we love the cheaper air fare).
 

Tamaradarann

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Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything. Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.

From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:

"The
Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for
commercial purposes or monetary or other
consideration by Members or their guests,

including the use of a confirmed reservation
in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale
or other commercial use (other than an
Owner’s Home Week
) including through the
use of Guest Certificates."

The bolding is mine. The underlined part is mine as well.
Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything. Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.

From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:

Ok, so what about if you make a 2 BR club Reservation and have friends stay with you and they pay 1/2 of the maintenance cost of the unit?
 

Nomad420

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Not so sure it's "within the rules" for non-home weeks, but then again, I seriously doubt Hilton would do anything. Even if they accidentally blab on check-in that they rented from someone.

From page 14 of the 2019 Club rules:

"The
Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for
commercial purposes or monetary or other
consideration by Members or their guests,

including the use of a confirmed reservation
in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale
or other commercial use (other than an
Owner’s Home Week
) including through the
use of Guest Certificates."

The bolding is mine. The underlined part is mine as well.

Just curious and not that I want to rent but what if you have no "home week" as they do at HCNY? I have already gifted my place/points at HCNY to family with absolutely no problems obviously.
 

brp

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Just curious and not that I want to rent but what if you have no "home week" as they do at HCNY? I have already gifted my place/points at HCNY to family with absolutely no problems obviously.

It's pretty much universally believed that there will never be a problem with the occasional renting (which just looks like sharing). For some, it's just a question of whether it is, or is not, a violation of the rules.

Cheers.
 

Tamaradarann

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Just curious and not that I want to rent but what if you have no "home week" as they do at HCNY? I have already gifted my place/points at HCNY to family with absolutely no problems obviously.

From my interpretation, using HCNY resort you own to gift to your family or friends in no problem. Also, having friends stay with you and they pay 1/2 of the maintenance cost of the unit is also not a problem? If it was a problem, I am sure having those friends pay for the groceries and/or dinners out that are the equivalent to 1/2 the maintenance could be worked out, so why even make a problem when there isn't one.
 

CalGalTraveler

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HCNY is an interesting bird. It would be interesting for an owner to share their rules on renting. Perhaps the points can be rented out since points are considered your "home week." However didn't they switch from RTU to deeded? What is on the deed?

Maybe the reason they bucketed the bHC points was to curb rental abuse using points from Vegas to rent out HCNY?
 

PigsDad

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Maybe the reason they bucketed the bHC points was to curb rental abuse using points from Vegas to rent out HCNY?
Could definitely have been a factor, IMO. That change might have been relevant to a conversation I had w/ another HGVC owner in the pool at The Surf Club last Christmas. He was planning on divesting from several weeks that he owned due to a "change in the reservation system". Seemed he owned many weeks / points and used them as a side business of renting out reservations. I think he said he owned 10-15 weeks/deeds. I really didn't get in a deep discussion, so I'm not sure what exactly changed; maybe he got caught and HGVC was restricting his renting? Or maybe it was the byHC restrictions? I really didn't want to point out that what he was doing was against the rules, though.

Kurt
 

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HCNY is an interesting bird. It would be interesting for an owner to share their rules on renting. Perhaps the points can be rented out since points are considered your "home week." However didn't they switch from RTU to deeded? What is on the deed?

Maybe the reason they bucketed the bHC points was to curb rental abuse using points from Vegas to rent out HCNY?

It is indeed deeded now. As far as the rental rules I will have to get back to you as I am working now away from home and don't have the contract with me.
 

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From my interpretation, using HCNY resort you own to gift to your family or friends in no problem. Also, having friends stay with you and they pay 1/2 of the maintenance cost of the unit is also not a problem? If it was a problem, I am sure having those friends pay for the groceries and/or dinners out that are the equivalent to 1/2 the maintenance could be worked out, so why even make a problem when there isn't one.

One can finagle the situation any way they want. It is not a problem and never will be a problem in this case, even if one does receive payment for the room. from family, friends or "friends." How one wants to both interpret and follow the rules is an individual decision. If one is not doing this a lot, i.e. not as a commercial venture, nothing's gonna happen.

Cheers.
 

terces

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One can finagle the situation any way they want. It is not a problem and never will be a problem in this case, even if one does receive payment for the room. from family, friends or "friends." How one wants to both interpret and follow the rules is an individual decision. If one is not doing this a lot, i.e. not as a commercial venture, nothing's gonna happen.

Cheers.
I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limits and tax laws. They are the rules and should you choose to bend them, understand you have entered a contract that says otherwise.
 

brp

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I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limits and tax laws. They are the rules and should you choose to bend them, understand you have entered a contract that says otherwise.

Exactly!

Cheers.
 

escanoe

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I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limit.....

It is a minority of drivers that NEVER violate speed limits. This probably is fairly analogous to what we are discussing here. You can in all likelihood drive 5 to 10 mph over the limit almost all the time and never get a ticket. Consistently drive more than 20 over, and you are running some risk.
 

Tamaradarann

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It is a minority of drivers that NEVER violate speed limits. This probably is fairly analogous to what we are discussing here. You can in all likelihood drive 5 to 10 mph over the limit almost all the time and never get a ticket. Consistently drive more than 20 over, and you are running some risk.

I like the analogy.
 

Tamaradarann

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I've also heard of people who get creative with the speed limits and tax laws. They are the rules and should you choose to bend them, understand you have entered a contract that says otherwise.

I agree, but I would add that the intent and bottom line in bending the rules makes a difference. If one is reserving an accommodation during club season and renting it out for compensation that is one thing since you are taking a timeshare out of circulation that you don't own that other members could reserve for their use and financially benefiting. However, if you reserve an accommodation during club season for you and your friends or family to stay whether they provide some compensation to you or not is insignificant to the availability for other members.
 
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