Rental value of HGVC?

[CalGalTraveler]

We do reimburse some trips to W57 in NYC though work by applying a prorated portion of the maintenance fee. Haven't thought about applying portion of purchase price but not worth doing because it would be a hassle to justify if audited and don't want to create unnecessary tensions at DH job.

However I would consider for my own firm when I need to visit NYC for business, but hardest part would be determining the years of amortization to apply. Is there an IRS guideline for that?

 

[junk]

Just as a rough idea...
It seems HGVC isn’t at the top of the list for renting out points, for several reasons. But... is there a a general point at which HGVC owners rent to family and friends if they have excess points? If I had more points than I could use/save (and/or couldn’t go along with, to treat) and I had a taker, what would be a reasonable request for a cash fee? Is it worth buying a new contract to have a few thousand extra points to try to recoup some/all of MF buy renting to those who are close to me and not gouging? Somewhere in the the range of MF/PP? Such as $.17-.20 per point? Am I way off base here? I would appreciate the feedback on general guidelines. It seems the Wyndham folds are big on this, but is seems less so with HGVC. Or is there an open marker that I’m not aware of that will bring more. Thoughts?
Thanks.

I use value of $0.30/point to calculate the amortization of purchase price.

 

[Mitzi Witt]

According to the HGVC rules, an owner can only rent out their Home Week reservations, so if you owned at a popular place that might work.

Kurt

I had an owners update in Myrtle Beach a couple years ago. They were promoting adding 4th of July week there or NYE in Vegas to rent for big $$ and cover all maintenance fees. The sales guy pulled up an airbnb listing showing a condo in MB for $700 / night over the 4th. Seemed a bit shady on their part, IMO.

 

[dayooper]

I had an owners update in Myrtle Beach a couple years ago. They were promoting adding 4th of July week there or NYE in Vegas to rent for big $$ and cover all maintenance fees. The sales guy pulled up an airbnb listing showing a condo in MB for $700 / night over the 4th. Seemed a bit shady on their part, IMO.

Yup, it what they do. Be shady to get you to purchase.

 

[PigsDad]

I had an owners update in Myrtle Beach a couple years ago. They were promoting adding 4th of July week there or NYE in Vegas to rent for big $$ and cover all maintenance fees. The sales guy pulled up an airbnb listing showing a condo in MB for $700 / night over the 4th. Seemed a bit shady on their part, IMO.

So I obviously wasn't there to hear what was said (and I'm certainly not defending the sales staff), but if you own a Platinum week at on of those locations, it would be perfectly within the rules to make a Home Week reservation and rent it out. Not sure if you could get $700/night for a full week, though...

Kurt

 

[magmue]

Sorta like eBay - just because someone is asking that price doesn't mean they are getting that price. Some folks are very aspirational when they set prices.
For all we know, a sales person could have listed it at that price to pull up "randomly" during their sales pitch.

 

[terces]

Here is an excerpt from the June issue of HGVC Traveller. Does anyone dispute what they are saying in #2 "Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program."

Most Common Exit Fraud Schemes
The four most common types of third-party exit company fraud schemes are:

1. Elimination of Maintenance Fees
   Scammers may promise to eliminate your HOA or maintenance fees, which are used to operate your resort and keep it updated. The scammers may claim that fees are going up and attempt to scare you about rising costs. While your HOA fees may naturally go up as costs increase to operate a property, your HOA board approves all maintenance fees and expenses.
   
   
2. Rental Opportunities
   Scammers may claim to be able to rent your timeshare or say you have unused benefits from which you can profit. Remember: Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program.
   
   
3. Offers to Buy or Sell Your Timeshare
   Beware of callers or emails guaranteeing to sell your timeshare within a certain amount of time. There is no set amount of time for the sale of a vacation ownership interest, as it all depends on consumer supply and demand.
   
   
4. Paid Ownership Transfer
   Scammers may promise to transfer your paid-off ownership to another party for a substantial fee. Often these transfers never take place or are fraudulent, leaving you in the dark until you’re forced into foreclosure.
   

 

[SmithOp]

I think its consistent with club rules that state no “commercial” rentals allowed. Having a third party agree to advertise and rent for an owner falls under commercial rental imo. This article is about scammers that claim to have corporate rental clients for outrageous high prices, all the owner has to do is pay a fee to list with them, a scam, no rental ever materializes.


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[Tamaradarann]

Here is an excerpt from the June issue of HGVC Traveller. Does anyone dispute what they are saying in #2 "Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program."

Most Common Exit Fraud Schemes
The four most common types of third-party exit company fraud schemes are:

1. Elimination of Maintenance Fees
   Scammers may promise to eliminate your HOA or maintenance fees, which are used to operate your resort and keep it updated. The scammers may claim that fees are going up and attempt to scare you about rising costs. While your HOA fees may naturally go up as costs increase to operate a property, your HOA board approves all maintenance fees and expenses.
   
   
2. Rental Opportunities
   Scammers may claim to be able to rent your timeshare or say you have unused benefits from which you can profit. Remember: Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program.
   
   
3. Offers to Buy or Sell Your Timeshare
   Beware of callers or emails guaranteeing to sell your timeshare within a certain amount of time. There is no set amount of time for the sale of a vacation ownership interest, as it all depends on consumer supply and demand.
   
   
4. Paid Ownership Transfer
   Scammers may promise to transfer your paid-off ownership to another party for a substantial fee. Often these transfers never take place or are fraudulent, leaving you in the dark until you’re forced into foreclosure.

I don't dispute #2. However, I will make a comment about #1. While the HOA maintenance fees and expenses are approved by the HOA, sometimes there is a stacked HOA. Don't ask me how it happens because I don't know but: Some of the Hilton Grand Vacation Club Timeshares had executives that worked for HGVC on the HOA. HGVC didn't have a controlling interest, however, they did have some influence. Also, TUG members that own the Manhattan Club in New York City have stated on the TUG Forum that a majority of the HOA worked for the Developer of the Manhattan Club Timeshare and voted to approve expenses. Maintenance fees grew to more that $3,000/week. That developer has been bought out by Bluegreen and hopefully the operation is overhauled and changed for the better.

 

[PigsDad]

Here is an excerpt from the June issue of HGVC Traveller. Does anyone dispute what they are saying in #2 "Renting your timeshare exchange benefits is against the rules of your vacation ownership program."

I think the key word is what I highlighted -- exchange benefits. IOW, weeks or reservations that you can get by exchanging your ownership for something else (and then renting it out). I think they are referring to the common scam where an outfit will approach you and say they can rent out the "RCI bonus weeks" (or some similar terminology) that you, as an owner, can obtain. Of course, not only will they ask for an up-front fee, it is also against RCI's rules to rent out any reservation (exchange, last call, etc.) you obtain through them.

I believe it is perfectly ok to rent out any Home Week reservation that you make via your ownership. Club Season reservations I think would fall under the "exchange benefits", so it makes sense that you are not allowed to rent those out.

At least that is the way I interpret the wording. Thoughts?

Kurt

 

[Tamaradarann]

I think the key word is what I highlighted -- exchange benefits. IOW, weeks or reservations that you can get by exchanging your ownership for something else (and then renting it out). I think they are referring to the common scam where an outfit will approach you and say they can rent out the "RCI bonus weeks" (or some similar terminology) that you, as an owner, can obtain. Of course, not only will they ask for an up-front fee, it is also against RCI's rules to rent out any reservation (exchange, last call, etc.) you obtain through them.

I believe it is perfectly ok to rent out any Home Week reservation that you make via your ownership. Club Season reservations I think would fall under the "exchange benefits", so it makes sense that you are not allowed to rent those out.

At least that is the way I interpret the wording. Thoughts?

Kurt

Totally agree with your interpretation. Now while it does violate your interpretation in part, do you feel that it is OK for friends and family to reimburse you for some or all of your costs of a reservation that you make for them? I will break it down to 1 make for them and your are NOT accompanying them; and 2 Make for them and you will be part of the group in a large accommodation?

 

[GT75]

When you make a guest certification, here is one item which you must acknowledge;

I acknowledge that my guests are my immediate family and/or personally known and acquainted with me and that use of the Club for commercial purposes of Members or their guests including the use of a confirmed reservation for any rental, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner’s Home Week) is strictly forbidden. Reservations made through a commercial rental business are subject to cancellation.

 

[terces]

I think its consistent with club rules that state no “commercial” rentals allowed. Having a third party agree to advertise and rent for an owner falls under commercial rental imo. This article is about scammers that claim to have corporate rental clients for outrageous high prices, all the owner has to do is pay a fee to list with them, a scam, no rental ever materializes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

When you make a guest certification, here is one item which you must acknowledge;

I acknowledge that my guests are my immediate family and/or personally known and acquainted with me and that use of the Club for commercial purposes of Members or their guests including the use of a confirmed reservation for any rental, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner’s Home Week) is strictly forbidden. Reservations made through a commercial rental business are subject to cancellation.

So, my take on this is that you can in fact rent out your Homeweek, but it cannot be rented through a commercial business. That should mean that reservations through Airbnb and VRBO et all are not allowed, and they could be cancelled at any time including when some poorly informed renter is standing at the check in desk, or even after he/she has checked in. Any other use of points or weeks for renting out a unit is specifically not allowed.

 

[PigsDad]

Totally agree with your interpretation. Now while it does violate your interpretation in part, do you feel that it is OK for friends and family to reimburse you for some or all of your costs of a reservation that you make for them? I will break it down to 1 make for them and your are NOT accompanying them; and 2 Make for them and you will be part of the group in a large accommodation?

Personally, I see no issue w/ getting reimbursed from family/friends, and I think the wording that GT75 quoted above supports that -- it would not fall under the "commercial rental", I would think.

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

So, my take on this is that you can in fact rent out your Homeweek, but it cannot be rented through a commercial business. That should mean that reservations through Airbnb and VRBO et all are not allowed, and they could be cancelled at any time including when some poorly informed renter is standing at the check in desk, or even after he/she has checked in. Any other use of points or weeks for renting out a unit is specifically not allowed.

I don't know. The wording in GT75's quote above seems like the commercial renting restriction does not apply to Home Week reservations (but it is not perfectly clear).

Kurt

 

[SmithOp]

I don’t think we have ever had a report of HGVC enforcing the rental rules. I see ads on eBay all the time that are obviously not home week.


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[terces]

I see two units available on Redweek for the Boulevard - both floating for really low prices. Based on that I don't see it is that prevalent.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I don't know. The wording in GT75's quote above seems like the commercial renting restriction does not apply to Home Week reservations (but it is not perfectly clear).

Kurt

PigsDad, I totally agree with your interpretation in both of your posts on this subject and also concur with you answering them with separate posts which emphasize that they are two different issues. One is that having family and friends as guests in an HGVC timeshare that you reserve during club season which requires you to be a member and utilize the club to book the reservation is OK. The second is that the HGVC rules on renting home week reservations do not apply since home week are when you are reserving a week you own and does not have the restrictions.

 

[brp]

Personally, I see no issue w/ getting reimbursed from family/friends, and I think the wording that GT75 quoted above supports that -- it would not fall under the "commercial rental", I would think.

Kurt

Agreed. And the definition of "friends" can be as wide as someone is comfortable with.

Cheers.

 

[terces]

Agreed. And the definition of "friends" can be as wide as someone is comfortable with.

Cheers.

Those "friends" I guess would need to be lock step with how they are related to you in case they happen to blurt out the wrong thing at the check in desk. For all of the potential problems of renting there is another option of applying your points to the MF's, or simply selling the unit if you have too many points. Part of my buy-in to HGVC is that they have rules against the extra curricular rental of units, and I really hope they enforce it to the max.

 

[dayooper]

Those "friends" I guess would need to be lock step with how they are related to you in case they happen to blurt out the wrong thing at the check in desk. For all of the potential problems of renting there is another option of applying your points to the MF's, or simply selling the unit if you have too many points. Part of my buy-in to HGVC is that they have rules against the extra curricular rental of units, and I really hope they enforce it to the max.

I thought it was just bonus points you can apply to MF’s.

The person renting out their week for a club booking every once and a while to pay MF’s doesn’t bother me all that much. It’s the mega renters or those that purchase to rent the club bookings as an income generator that I have issue with. It’s one of the reasons that I purchased HGVC over Marriott. I’ve seen ads on VBRO for renting at HGVC resorts. Not a specific resort, but any resort. This bothers me because it could effect my enjoyment of the system. If they take weeks that I want and are breaking the rules put in place to stop the practice, HGVC needs to put an end to that.

The question becomes, where do you draw the line?

 

[CPNY]

T

I thought it was just bonus points you can apply to MF’s.

The person renting out their week for a club booking every once and a while to pay MF’s doesn’t bother me all that much. It’s the mega renters or those that purchase to rent the club bookings as an income generator that I have issue with. It’s one of the reasons that I purchased HGVC over Marriott. I’ve seen ads on VBRO for renting at HGVC resorts. Not a specific resort, but any resort. This bothers me because it could effect my enjoyment of the system. If they take weeks that I want and are breaking the rules put in place to stop the practice, HGVC needs to put an end to that.

The question becomes, where do you draw the line?

the way these slimy sales reps over sell leaving people with more than they need I say good for them renting. It keeps the market honest. Why buy through a developer if you can rent for less

 

[GT75]

the way these slimy sales reps over sell leaving people with more than they need I say good for them renting. It keeps the market honest. Why buy through a developer if you can rent for less

I agree with @dayooper. I know that some of the other TS systems had/have problems with mega-renters. I really don't want those issues with HGVC.

 

[brp]

Those "friends" I guess would need to be lock step with how they are related to you in case they happen to blurt out the wrong thing at the check in desk.

Nope. Friends are friends. Need not be related. And HGVC has no notion of just how we might know each other, so there is little risk. Of course, if they talk about a "rental," that's not good. But, beyond that, no coordination is needed.

The person renting out their week for a club booking every once and a while to pay MF’s doesn’t bother me all that much.

The question becomes, where do you draw the line?

I agree with both of your points, including the "where to draw the line" part. It is certainly possible, for example, that someone may have more points than they currently need on an annual basis, so they allow "friends" to stay periodically. However, they know that, within a few years, they are very likely to be using all of their points, so this is an interim thing. One scenario, anyway.

Cheers.

 

[brp]

I agree with @dayooper. I know that some of the other TS systems had/have problems with mega-renters. I really don't want those issues with HGVC.

DVC is one of those. While "commercial" renting is technically against the rules, since renting, in general, is OK, it's not enforced. There are agencies that acquire and rent out DVC points as a business. And this has gone on for some time. And people who own a (sometimes quite large) set of points specifically for renting.

Cheers.