Refresher needed, credit card for paying Vistana MF

[controller1]

Yes, I saw that previously as well. But where does it say we earn the 6x points for maintenance fees to Vistana?


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There is nothing now that says we earn two Starpoints for maintenance fees to Vistana. It is only through our knowledge and what Vistana has told us. I assume it will be no different going forward. Have you read anything from Vistana, Starwood, Marriott or Amex that says differently?

 

[Ken555]

There is nothing now that says we earn two Starpoints for maintenance fees to Vistana. It is only through our knowledge and what Vistana has told us. I assume it will be no different going forward. Have you read anything from Vistana, Starwood, Marriott or Amex that says differently?

Of course not, or else I’d have posted a link. But, if it simply continues at 2x regular earnings, as we earn now, then it would be 4 Marriott points per $, not 6. What am I missing?


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[controller1]

Of course not, or else I’d have posted a link. But, if it simply continues at 2x regular earnings, as we earn now, then it would be 4 Marriott points per $, not 6. What am I missing?


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All Starwood/Marriott/Vistana charges currently earn 2 points per dollar even though the T&C of the Amex card only mention Starwood and Marriott. Since the T&C of the new (post Aug 1) Amex states Starwood and Marriott will earn 6 points per dollar, why do you not believe that Vistana will be included in that as they are today?

 

[Ken555]

All Starwood/Marriott/Vistana charges currently earn 2 points per dollar even though the T&C of the Amex card only mention Starwood and Marriott. Since the T&C of the new (post Aug 1) Amex states Starwood and Marriott will earn 6 points per dollar, why do you not believe that Vistana will be included in that as they are today?

I earn three points at SPG properties now, yet only two when paying MF. Why would this ratio change? I’d be glad if it did, of course, but it’s a bit murky to me.


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[dsmrp]

Currently, when using the SPG Amex to pay Vistana MFs one earns 2 Starpoints/$. After August 1, when using the SPG Amex to pay Vistana MFs one will earn 6 Points/$. Therefore, with the 3:1 ratio there is no advantage to prepaying one's MFs prior to August 1.

Yes, I saw that previously as well. But where does it say we earn the 6x points for maintenance fees to Vistana?

I re-read my Amex notice letter and think now after August 1, it will be either 2 pts or 6 pts per MF dollar.
The screenshot earlier post by Controller1, said "6x at participating SPG and Marriott Rewards hotels".
So if MFs are not considered a hotel charge (and I don't think they will be), then revised Amex would only give 2x points. These are post-august 1 points, not starpoints. No more on-going conversion from Starpoints to MR points after Aug 1.

It's TBD after Vistana-ILG sale to Marriott, if Marriott will give 6x points for MF payment with new Marriott premium credit card.

I think I'll go ahead and prepay my MF anyway on SPG Amex. That way I know I'll get 6X MR points/MF $

 

[controller1]

I earn three points at SPG properties now, yet only two when paying MF. Why would this ratio change? I’d be glad if it did, of course, but it’s a bit murky to me.


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When staying at SPG properties now, you earn three points from SPG (due to your Gold status) and two points from Amex (if you pay with the SPG Amex). When paying your MF you are only earning from Amex. And in the future, that amount will be six points. You are confusing what you earn from SPG and what you earn from Amex. Those are separate transactions.

UPDATE: I've just sent an email to Vistana Owner Services asking this question. I'll update with whatever they say, if anything.

 

[Ken555]

When staying at SPG properties now, you earn three points from SPG (due to your Gold status) and two points from Amex (if you pay with the SPG Amex). When paying your MF you are only earning from Amex. And in the future, that amount will be six points. You are confusing what you earn from SPG and what you earn from Amex. Those are separate transactions.

Yes, they are separate. That’s my point. I still don’t see any specifics supporting your contention that we will earn six Marriott points per $ spent for MF after Aug 1. The only reference I see is the six points at hotels.


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[controller1]

Yes, they are separate. That’s my point. I still don’t see any specifics supporting your contention that we will earn six Marriott points per $ spent for MF after Aug 1. The only reference I see is the six points at hotels.


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Please see my UPDATE above. Hopefully, I'll hear something back.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, they are separate. That’s my point. I still don’t see any specifics supporting your contention that we will earn six Marriott points per $ spent for MF after Aug 1. The only reference I see is the six points at hotels.


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I think that today you earn 2 points per dollar on hotel spending on the SPG Amex. You also earn the same 2 per dollar on Vistana MFs. All other spending is only 1 point per dollar. So there is a similay multiplier for Vistana MFs as there is for hotel stays. The current SPG Amex T&C only indicate 2 per dollar at hotel properties. The T&C of the new card say 6 per dollar at hotel properties and 2 per dollar for all other spend. The question that needs answered is will the new SPG Amex or the new MR Premier Plus have the same multiplier as the current SPG Amex for Vistana MFs.

 

[controller1]

The question that needs answered is will the new SPG Amex or the new MR Premier Plus have the same multiplier as the current SPG Amex for Vistana MFs.

And that's what I've asked of Vistana Owner Services.

 

[Ken555]

I think that today you earn 2 points per dollar on hotel spending on the SPG Amex. You also earn the same 2 per dollar on Vistana MFs. All other spending is only 1 point per dollar. So there is a similay multiplier for Vistana MFs as there is for hotel stays. The current SPG Amex T&C only indicate 2 per dollar at hotel properties. The T&C of the new card say 6 per dollar at hotel properties and 2 per dollar for all other spend. The question that needs answered is will the new SPG Amex or the new MR Premier Plus have the same multiplier as the current SPG Amex for Vistana MFs.

Isn’t that the question I posed earlier?


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[taterhed]

I'm quite happy to note that I'm not the only one with questions.
I hope there is a positive turn...

The deadline for the MR bonus has been extended to 12 July....so I'm applying
I'm also going to grab the Amex SPG Platinum in Aug for the 75k Plat Elite.

To bad I couldn't have nabbed the Platinum match in the interim. Maybe I can just go rent a few hotel rooms. Sigh. No, probably not.

 

[dioxide45]

Huh? They were posted. What makes you think they aren’t confirmed?

How do you calculate the six points/$ after Aug 1?

But where does it say we earn the 6x points for maintenance fees to Vistana?

But, if it simply continues at 2x regular earnings, as we earn now, then it would be 4 Marriott points per $, not 6. What am I missing?

I earn three points at SPG properties now, yet only two when paying MF. Why would this ratio change?

Isn’t that the question I posed earlier?

Not really, all the questions you asked in this thread are above. You were also getting 4 MR points in there somehow, which I really see no way possible to ever end up with four MR points from any combination of SPG points. I don't see where you asked that specific question as eloquently as me .

As for what I highlighted in red, no one really knows if the multiplier on MF spend ("two when paying MF") will happen with either of the new cards. I believe I had read on a thread in the Marriott forum that someone tried this with the new Chase MR Premier Plus card and they only got the regular two points per dollar on Vistana MFs, not the 6x point multiplier.

 

[taterhed]

Not really, all the questions you asked in this thread are above. You were also getting 4 MR points in there somehow, which I really see no way possible to ever end up with four MR points from any combination of SPG points. I don't see where you asked that specific question as eloquently as me .

As for what I highlighted in red, no one really knows if the multiplier on MF spend ("two when paying MF") will happen with either of the new cards. I believe I had read on a thread in the Marriott forum that someone tried this with the new Chase MR Premier Plus card and they only got the regular two points per dollar on Vistana MFs, not the 6x point multiplier.

Yeah, that's about it.

It's clear that some things will change on Aug 1. Whether the MF's paid on MR or SPG credit cards will be over 2 pts.... well, that's the question. Yes, the threads below were the 'test' payment on the new MR+ card. They were credited 2x. But.....If you read that same thread, you'll see that some users in the that thread and others claim 'x3 points' for paying VSE MF's on the old card(s). If so, then why? Will the new cards also recognize status or MF's as purchases at Marriott? That whole debacle is what led to my scattered (and incorrect) post in the first place.

These are the discussions about 'how many points for MF's on new card?" That's my question

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/chase-marriott-premier-plus-and-vistana-mfs.274758/
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ier-plus-and-vistana-mfs.274758/#post-2151981

 

[dsmrp]

As for what I highlighted in red, no one really knows if the multiplier on MF spend ("two when paying MF") will happen with either of the new cards. I believe I had read on a thread in the Marriott forum that someone tried this with the new Chase MR Premier Plus card and they only got the regular two points per dollar on Vistana MFs, not the 6x point multiplier.

That was me, and the thread link on my results is in post #4 of this thread. Per Amex T&C, a 6x multiplier is determined by how AMEX codes the merchant sending in charge. Maybe Marriott corporate tells Amex the qualifying merchant names for 6x and anything else not specified is 2x by default.

IMO, the features/benefits of revised Starwood consumer Amex and new Marriott premier plus card are being aligned the same. I think eventually the Amex version will be discontinued, and amex card holders switched to a Marriott card. Or offered a Marriott card as a replacement.

Would be great if we all will get 6x multiplier on MFs. I'm still pretty doubtful based on my MF Marriott card test.

 

[dioxide45]

That was me, and the thread link on my results is in post #4 of this thread. Per Amex T&C, a 6x multiplier is determined by how AMEX codes the merchant sending in charge. Maybe Marriott corporate tells Amex the qualifying merchant names for 6x and anything else not specified is 2x by default.

I think you are right. I think it mainly went by Payee Name. Perhaps the inclusion of certain words; Marriott, Westin, etc. People were able to use the old SPG Amex to pay their Marriott MFs and did get the 2x multiplier that worked out to 6 MR points per dollar. I suspect it was because the Payee Name included the word 'Marriott'. The same did not work for the Chase MR credit card when paying Vistana MFs. None of the payee names for Vistana MFs actually include the words Sheraton of Westin. Or even Vistana for that matter. They payee name is the same as the association name (like Bella Florida Condominium for SVV Bella phase). So unless the Payee Names are specifically identified, there would be no multiplier for Vistana fees but it could still continue for Marriott MFs with Chase if they use the same method.

 

[dsmrp]

I think you are right. I think it mainly went by Payee Name. Perhaps the inclusion of certain words; Marriott, Westin, etc. People were able to use the old SPG Amex to pay their Marriott MFs and did get the 2x multiplier that worked out to 6 MR points per dollar. I suspect it was because the Payee Name included the word 'Marriott'. The same did not work for the Chase MR credit card when paying Vistana MFs. None of the payee names for Vistana MFs actually include the words Sheraton of Westin. Or even Vistana for that matter. They payee name is the same as the association name (like Bella Florida Condominium for SVV Bella phase). So unless the Payee Names are specifically identified, there would be no multiplier for Vistana fees but it could still continue for Marriott MFs with Chase if they use the same method.

Actually the payee name in my MF payment began with "Vistana", cause it's at original (Sheraton) Vistana resort LOL. It took 4+ days to go from pending to posted charge, and I believe the name stumped 'em, and a coding decision had to be made.

 

[taterhed]

Supposedly the 'new' Plat Amex SPG is coming in Aug, right? So that doesn't speak well to dropping the SPG name anytime soon (1yr).
I hope they 're-code' all the MR/SPG cards to cross-reference all properties after Aug 1. That was my 'mystery' thought after Aug.
We'll see.

I know in other industries (including one we're tied to) the Credit cards are HUGE cash-cows. They would rather have the credit cards favor the consumer than try to cut benefits. Of course, that's not always true and times change. Lack of competition rarely benefits the consumer.

Let's hope.

 

[Ken555]

Not really, all the questions you asked in this thread are above. You were also getting 4 MR points in there somehow, which I really see no way possible to ever end up with four MR points from any combination of SPG points. I don't see where you asked that specific question as eloquently as me .

As for what I highlighted in red, no one really knows if the multiplier on MF spend ("two when paying MF") will happen with either of the new cards. I believe I had read on a thread in the Marriott forum that someone tried this with the new Chase MR Premier Plus card and they only got the regular two points per dollar on Vistana MFs, not the 6x point multiplier.

Fair enough

I like your summary. I seem to recall many threads about this issue over the years, and lots of confusion. So... I just reviewed the last three January AMEX statements where I had some MF expenses, and it seems I earned two SPG points per MF $. This is what I thought, which is why I postulated that perhaps we might end up with four MR points in the future (since we will be earning a base two MR points per $, and this would be double; this is how I got to four points...).

From my AMEX statements (only showing MF expenses and points below):

Jan 2018
MF: $3305
"Points Earned for Eligible Purchases": 3,305
"Total Bonus Points Earned": 10,805
- "Double Starpoints Bonus": 3,305
- "Other Starpoints Bonus": 7,500 <-- I have no idea why I earned this, perhaps some promotion

Jan 2017
MF: $1660
"Points Earned for Eligible Purchases": 1,660
"Total Bonus Points Earned": 1,660
- "Double Starpoints Bonus": 1,660

Jan 2016
MF: $1599
"Points Earned for Eligible Purchases": 1,599
"Total Bonus Points Earned": 1,599
- "Double Starpoints Bonus": 1,599

FYI, I also glanced at my Jan 2014 statement and saw the same 2x points earned on MF expenses. So, there was no change to this benefit when switching from Starwood to Vistana.

I have more in other months but it seems apparent that I only earned two SPG points for each $ spent on MF.

I look forward to having clarity on this issue so we know how the various cards perform when paying MFs.

 

[dioxide45]

Fair enough

I like your summary. I seem to recall many threads about this issue over the years, and lots of confusion. So... I just reviewed the last three January AMEX statements where I had some MF expenses, and it seems I earned two SPG points per MF $. This is what I thought, which is why I postulated that perhaps we might end up with four MR points in the future (since we will be earning a base two MR points per $, and this would be double; this is how I got to four points...).

From my AMEX statements (only showing MF expenses and points below):

Jan 2018
MF: $3305
"Points Earned for Eligible Purchases": 3,305
"Total Bonus Points Earned": 10,805
- "Double Starpoints Bonus": 3,305
- "Other Starpoints Bonus": 7,500 <-- I have no idea why I earned this, perhaps some promotion

Jan 2017
MF: $1660
"Points Earned for Eligible Purchases": 1,660
"Total Bonus Points Earned": 1,660
- "Double Starpoints Bonus": 1,660

Jan 2016
MF: $1599
"Points Earned for Eligible Purchases": 1,599
"Total Bonus Points Earned": 1,599
- "Double Starpoints Bonus": 1,599

FYI, I also glanced at my Jan 2014 statement and saw the same 2x points earned on MF expenses. So, there was no change to this benefit when switching from Starwood to Vistana.

I have more in other months but it seems apparent that I only earned two SPG points for each $ spent on MF.

I look forward to having clarity on this issue so we know how the various cards perform when paying MFs.

The two points you earned on MF spend was the same multiplier you would get if you paid for a room at the Westin on the SPG Amex. All other spending only gets 1 points per dollar. So we all wait to see if Vistana MFs earn a similar multiplier (6x points per dollar) when paying MFs on the new Amex or even the new Chase cards.

 

[Ken555]

The two points you earned on MF spend was the same multiplier you would get if you paid for a room at the Westin on the SPG Amex. All other spending only gets 1 points per dollar. So we all wait to see if Vistana MFs earn a similar multiplier (6x points per dollar) when paying MFs on the new Amex or even the new Chase cards.

Correct.


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[duke]

Vistana Management Fees earn 3X Chase Ultimate Rewards points and those points are worth $0.015 each making the return 4.5%.
Clearly the "experts" on FlyerTalk and other Blog sites are dumping the Marriott and Starwood cards for the Chase Sapphire Reserve card after August 1st.

 

[VacationForever]

I am already strategizing... I will still use AmEx SPG (mine) or Marriott Premier Plus (my husband's) card to pay SPG/Marriott hotel charges and Marriott MF. Vistana MF will still be on AmEx SPG unless it changes to no longer recognize "Vistana". Other than that, I will use Chase for restaurants and travel, as I had always done, but I will using my locked away United Explorer card for groceries (1X) type charges or my husband's Delta card, depending on which miles we need in the immediate future. Travel packages are no longer attractive and I will just stop converting to nights+miles after August.

 

[Ken555]

Vistana Management Fees earn 3X Chase Ultimate Rewards points and those points are worth $0.015 each making the return 4.5%.
Clearly the "experts" on FlyerTalk and other Blog sites are dumping the Marriott and Starwood cards for the Chase Sapphire Reserve card after August 1st.

I’ve read similar advice, and this card is on my short list of those I’m considering.


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[duke]

I’ve read similar advice, and this card is on my short list of those I’m considering.


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Good choice -

This $450 annual fee card ends up costing almost nothing.
$450 Annual Fee
<$300> Annual Travel Credit - immediately credited back to you on your statement for Vistana Management Fees or any other travel related charge
<$95> Cancel SPG AmEx card - Annual Fee
______
$55 net annual cost
<$95> Cancel Chase Sapphire Preferred or any other card you currently have that gives less benefits
---------
$0 No additional cost for these great benefits offered by this card!!!!