Recorded Trust Documents

[StevenTing]

Resale trust points? If so, keep us informed of how everything works out.

Sorry. Just a resale week. The trust points, at the price I want do not pass ROFR. They have to be $4+ to pass and I'm only willing to spend $2.50 to $3.00 because of all of the other fees...

 

[dioxide45]

Sorry. Just a resale week. The trust points, at the price I want do not pass ROFR. They have to be $4+ to pass and I'm only willing to spend $2.50 to $3.00 because of all of the other fees...

I think in a few more years we may see trust points down in the range that you are looking for. Right now there just are not enough on the market to make resale prices very low. Perhaps MVCI will instill a floor price, but I think at some point, say 5 to 10 years down the road, there will be a glut of points on the market and even their ROFR price will drop. A lot also depends on if they also start adding inventory of their own through any new resorts. If they do, they won't want to re-acquire trust points through ROFR since they will want to sell any inventory they would be holding at that time.

 

[StevenTing]

FYI, I'm currently working on a spreadsheet to capture season, bedrooms, unit numbers, view, and number of points for each of the weeks being transferred to the trust. I've spent 6 hours today and I've almost got the first batch of trust documents in the spreadsheet that are listed in the beginning of the thread.

Based on this, it will probably take another 24-28 hours to get the remainder of the documents in. Once complete I will need some help filling in some missing details as not all of the trust documents indicate bedrooms or season.

So far I have over 10,000 weeks in the spreadsheet.


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[FractionalTraveler]

FYI, I'm currently working on a spreadsheet to capture season, bedrooms, unit numbers, view, and number of points for each of the weeks being transferred to the trust. I've spent 6 hours today and I've almost got the first batch of trust documents in the spreadsheet that are listed in the beginning of the thread.

Based on this, it will probably take another 24-28 hours to get the remainder of the documents in. Once complete I will need some help filling in some missing details as not all of the trust documents indicate bedrooms or season.

So far I have over 10,000 weeks in the spreadsheet.


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Thanks Steven!

 

[Chad0128]

Steven did you ever complete the spread sheet?

 

[StevenTing]

Steven did you ever complete the spread sheet?

I have not had time. It's tedious work and its now busy time at my work.


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[SueDonJ]

In post #161, the entry 20120058912 Ritz-Carlton - Vail seems to point to Document 20120058330 Desert Springs 1.

Thank you for putting together this listing. I'm sure it was a monumental task and I am grateful that you were able to locate and share this information.

Same thing, in post #161 the entry 20120059552 - Grande Ocean, points to the same DSV document above.

And again, thank you very much for all this effort, dioxide. This thread is more valuable, useful for all sorts of references, than many of us might have expected.

 

[dioxide45]

Same thing, in post #161 the entry 20120059552 - Grande Ocean, points to the same DSV document above.

And again, thank you very much for all this effort, dioxide. This thread is more valuable, useful for all sorts of references, than many of us might have expected.

I think for that post, I inadvertently provided some bad links . I no longer am providing direct links to the document, but rather just updating my information and posting new points totals.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think for that post, I inadvertently provided some bad links . I no longer am providing direct links to the document, but rather just updating my information and posting new points totals.

No problem, what you're doing is certainly more than the rest of us are doing and still very much appreciated. I didn't mean it as a complaint of any kind, just figured when I saw the other post with the same thing that I'd piggyback onto it. I'm sure you'll see in the other thread why I was looking at Grande Ocean specifically.

 

[Chad0128]

I have not had time. It's tedious work and its now busy time at my work.


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I can imagine that it is incredibly labor intensive. I was wondering though how one would determine how many weeks are in the trust. In many of the Noa you cannot tell if the use is for biannual or annual. In florida properties I noticed that it can be either which would impact how many weeks are really in the trust. I am curious.

 

[dioxide45]

I can imagine that it is incredibly labor intensive. I was wondering though how one would determine how many weeks are in the trust. In many of the Noa you cannot tell if the use is for biannual or annual. In florida properties I noticed that it can be either which would impact how many weeks are really in the trust. I am curious.

Post #217 may have what you are looking for?

 

[Chad0128]

It would have to be a lot. Based on information posted here we know MVCI has indicated that they have a lot of inventory, and those amounts are not based on retail pricing. 87MM points is a little under $1BB in inventory based on retail prices. My guess is that MVCI has 4-5 times more inventory they are not placing in the trust.

I took the number of weeks at each resort conveyed to the trust and compared that to the total number of weeks available for sale at each resort. I was able to capture the number of weeks available from the trust conveyances. Surprisingly not every resort is 52 weeks. Several are only 51 weeks and one resort only sold 50 weeks in each unit.

This is a list of each resort conveyed to the trust and the percentage of each. I was a little surprised by the total percentage of over 11%.

Resort .......................Weeks in...Weeks at...Percentage
_______________________________Trust___ __Resort______________
Kalanipu'u......................3518... ....3744.......93.964%
Oceana Palms....................5647... ....8788.......64.258%
Crystal Shores..................2122... ....3484.......60.907%
Timber Lodge....................4722... ...13728.......34.397%
Willow Ridge Lodge..............2179... ....6864.......31.745%
Ko'Olina........................6092... ...22256.......27.372%
Newport Coast...................8073... ...36400.......22.179%
Grand Chateau...................4034... ...23296.......17.316%
Canyon Villas...................1901... ...11076.......17.163%
Maui Ocean Club Sequel..........1064... ....7696.......13.825%
Streamside.......................683... ....4992.......13.682%
Harbour Lake....................1807... ...16224.......11.138%
Maui Ocean Club.................1562... ...16172........9.659%
Mountain Valley Lodge............359... ....4056........8.851%
Villas at Doral..................599... ....7332........8.170%
Harbour Point....................339... ....4472........7.581%
Fairway Villas...................706... ....9360........7.543%
Grande Vista....................3449... ...46800........7.370%
Legends Edge.....................318... ....4316........7.368%
Ocean Watch.....................1402... ...19448........7.209%
Shadow Ridge/Shadow Ridge II....1818... ...26000........6.992%
Sunset Pointe.....................86... ....1275........6.745%
Lakeshore Reserve................324... ....4940........6.559%
Sabal Palms......................262... ....4160........6.298%
Frenchman's Cove.................427... ....8060........5.298%
Imperial Palms...................114... ....2392........4.766%
Royal Palms......................297... ....6396........4.644%
Kauai Beach Club.................530... ...12064........4.393%
Ocean Pointe.....................758... ...17732........4.275%
Desert Springs II................825... ...20502........4.024%
Cypress Harbour.................1028... ...26520........3.876%
Surfwatch........................391... ...10140........3.856%
Mountain Side....................358... ....9464........3.783%
BeachPlace Towers................400... ...10712........3.734%
Monarch at Sea Pines.............222... ....6344........3.499%
Summit Watch.....................229... ....7020........3.262%
Heritage Club.....................45... ....1500........3.000%
Manor Club/Manor Club Sequel.....310... ...10400........2.981%
Desert Springs I.................355... ...12036........2.949%
Barony Beach Club................372... ...13005........2.860%
Harbour Club......................58... ....2040........2.843%
Waiohai..........................314... ...12012........2.614%
Grande Ocean.....................256... ...14790........1.731%
Total..........................60355... ..510008.......11.834%

According to the 2013-2014 budget, there are only 7342 timeshare weeks in oceana palms. Is the discrepancy because some units are biannual. How does that work?

 

[dioxide45]

According to the 2013-2014 budget, there are only 7342 timeshare weeks in oceana palms. Is the discrepancy because some units are biannual. How does that work?

From the No of Units at Resorts thread, there are 169 units at Oceana Palms, multiply that by 52 and you come to the 8788. Perhaps there are some weeks that Marriott never ever made available for sale?

 

[Chad0128]

That would make sense. Thanks

 

[dioxide45]

That would make sense. Thanks

Perhaps it would be a good question to ask the GM or BOD?

 

[sparty]

Perhaps it would be a good question to ask the GM or BOD?

Was there any more info on this? My understanding is Marriott never sells 100% because of refurbishment/maintenance etc. This was actually a Marriott brag that they didn't do 100% which results in floating week owners having a high probability of successful booking their owned week.

Seems like everyone agrees # of units x 52 is not accurate.

An accurate number of Unit Weeks for Cypresss Harbour is 26,010. (vs 52x510=26,520) Barony I can't easily tell what the number is.

I wouldn't think the gap/margin is fixed across all Marriott resorts. Some resorts may have occupancy margins higher than the limit due to trading, MRP, etc. so those resorts may have unit weeks higher than other resorts.

 

[jimf41]

According to the 2013-2014 budget, there are only 7342 timeshare weeks in oceana palms. Is the discrepancy because some units are biannual. How does that work?

I would think that's because they use a lot of units for their sales offices. When they are done selling there they will revert back to TS weeks as they did in Ocean Pointe.

 

[dioxide45]

November 8, 2013 Conveyance

On November 8th 2013 some new conveyances were recorded. All re-acquired stuff except for some developer Oceana Palms and Grande Vista.

I did find one glaring error when going through them this time. In document 20130595697 for the developer Oceana Palms conveyance, it indicates they conveyed 1,274,750,000. Yes, over ONE BILLION points. This should actually be 1,274,750. Looks like someone added three extra zeros to the end of that number, oops. They have the number of BIs accounted for correctly, as well as the total number of points available in the trust after conveyance.

There were 23,417,000 points added to the trust this time around. About 10MM less than the last time.

Resort.............................Total
Ko'Olina......................29,579,000
Newport Coast.................25,910,000
Oceana Palms..................22,990,750
Kalanipu'u....................17,315,250
Timber Lodge..................16,303,000
Grand Chateau.................11,881,750
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail......10,631,000
Grande Vista..................10,096,500
Crystal Shores.................9,397,250
Maui Ocean Club................7,932,750
Maui Ocean Club Sequel.........7,702,000
Canyon Villas..................4,736,750
Harbour Lake...................4,609,750
Shadow Ridge...................3,943,500
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe.....3,806,500
Desert Springs II..............3,733,250
Cypress Harbour................3,682,250
Willow Ridge Lodge.............3,498,750
Ocean Pointe...................3,279,500
Ocean Watch....................3,264,500
Shadow Ridge II................2,785,000
Kauai Beach Club...............2,497,500
Desert Springs I...............2,165,250
Waiohai........................1,667,500
BeachPlace Towers..............1,595,750
Frenchman's Cove...............1,362,500
Fairway Villas.................1,291,250
Barony Beach Club..............1,158,750
Lakeshore Reserve..............1,111,750
Villas at Doral................1,082,250
Mountain Side..................1,015,000
Surfwatch........................978,000
Grande Ocean.....................966,750
Streamside.......................773,750
Royal Palms......................720,250
Legends Edge.....................708,500
Mountain Valley Lodge............671,250
Manor Club.......................657,000
Sabal Palms......................634,750
Summit Watch.....................632,000
Manor Club Sequel................414,000
Monarch at Sea Pines.............389,250
Harbour Point....................324,750
Imperial Palms...................288,250
Harbour Club.....................105,000
Heritage Club.....................91,250
Sunset Pointe.....................84,500
Grand Total..................230,465,750

 

[SueDonJ]

Thanks for the continuous updates, dioxide. This thread is a great resource.

 

[jimf41]

I agree. This is a tremendous resource. It takes a lot of time and dedication to compile things like this. DIOXIDE, if we ever meet at a bar your money won't be any good.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening

looks like about 60,000,000 of the 230,000,000 points in the trust come from 3 High MF Hawaii properties... Koolina, KL and Maui ocean I and II. Could this deleterious raise the MF's for the trust points, since they are a composite of the weeks conveyed to the trust...?? Does anyone believe there might be a MVCD subsidy in play here??? So far MF's for trust have increased from $0.41/pt to $0.45 about 10% over 3 years, below the standard increases at most of the properties...

just curious...

 

[GregT]

Dioxide,

I agree with others -- thank you for maintaining this thread, it is terrific information and a great reference for us!

Puck,

It doesn't bother me that the Trust is overweighted on Hawaii. I think this may work in our benefit because many of the Hawaii properties have a better than average MF/point ratio (and plus, that's where I want to travel!).

Best,

Greg

 

[dioxide45]

good evening

looks like about 60,000,000 of the 230,000,000 points in the trust come from 3 High MF Hawaii properties... Koolina, KL and Maui ocean I and II. Could this deleterious raise the MF's for the trust points, since they are a composite of the weeks conveyed to the trust...?? Does anyone believe there might be a MVCD subsidy in play here??? So far MF's for trust have increased from $0.41/pt to $0.45 about 10% over 3 years, below the standard increases at most of the properties...

just curious...

It seems that the HI properties are keeping the pp MF on trust points lower since most of those have a MF to legacy point ratio lower than the current trust point MF. The killer on trust MFs is the Grand Residence and Ritz Carlton properties. Those getting added to the trust tends to bring the MF per point up.

 

[mpizza]

Thank you for keeping us informed!

I noticed a big increase in recorded trust points for my home resort, MFV.

November- 1,291,250
March- 1,037,000

Difference - 254,250

That's a lot of weeks to be re-acquired as platinum weeks amount to 2,075 points, or 122 weeks. Even more weeks if they are gold.

Another scenario, the original resort build-out included three additional buildings, subsequently put on hold. Tactically, in anticipation of completing the build-out, the trust needs to have sufficient points recorded before they can sell them. Although that doesn't fit the premise that points sold are not attached to a particular resort.

Your thoughts?

Maria

 

[dioxide45]

Thank you for keeping us informed!

I noticed a big increase in recorded trust points for my home resort, MFV.

November- 1,291,250
March- 1,037,000

Difference - 254,250

That's a lot of weeks to be re-acquired as platinum weeks amount to 2,075 points, or 122 weeks. Even more weeks if they are gold.

Another scenario, the original resort build-out included three additional buildings, subsequently put on hold. Tactically, in anticipation of completing the build-out, the trust needs to have sufficient points recorded before they can sell them. Although that doesn't fit the premise that points sold are not attached to a particular resort.

Your thoughts?

Maria

The new weeks conveyed at Fairway Villas were done in document 20130595883.

I am finding some strange things with this conveyance. There were 150 weeks conveyed, 95 gold and 55 platinum. In my research of trust filings, MVCI values a gold week at 1250 points and a platinum week at 2000. That means that they should have only conveyed 228,750 points to the trust for Fairway Villas this time around. Though they conveyed 254,250.

I am 99% confident in my numbers, so I can't explain the difference.