Questions before my first timeshare visit

[Jay Sultan]

I will be going to the Hilton Head Property by Hilton Vacations called Ocean Oaks (I am paying a discount for the stay but have to attend the hotbox session). It is my first time attending a timeshare hotbox session.

1) If I like the property, I would rather by used instead of new, but I searched TUG and cannot find any used memberships available. Am I searching incorrectly? How is it possible that there are none for sale?
2) If I like the property, should I wait until a used one is available?
3) Is there a way to buy a used one at a different Hilton location and then use it to stay at this property all of the time?
4) How can I found out what the hotbox offer is going to be? I want to be prepared and do my research ahead of time?

jay

 

[Jan M.]

There are so many different resorts to stay at on Hilton Head, the RCI directory lists 44. I wouldn't recommend buying at a particular resort as it is highly unlikely there is some advantage that no other resort offers.

I highly recommend buying points vs a fixed week at a resort in the RCI system. And not at a resort on Hilton Head as the maintenance fees there run quite a bit higher than resorts in other places. You can use your points to book at any resort in the RCI system to go whenever you like and can find a reservation. I frequently look for availability on Hilton Head as my sister and brother-in-law love going there so I know it isn't that hard to find reservations. About 3 years ago I even booked the week of July 4th. I may have been lucky getting that week as I'm not sure the availability is great during when the kids are out of school in the summertime. They are retired and prefer to go in the Spring and Fall when it isn't as crowded or busy. We pay a fee of $230 for every week we book with our RCI points.

You might want to experiment with staying at several resorts and if you do find one you truly love then could look into buying there. We prefer the flexibility that having points gives us and going to different resorts and different places vs owning a fixed week and trying to make trades.

Some of the best maintenance fees for the points can be found owning point weeks at Grandview Las Vegas or other resorts in the Vacation Village family of resorts. The maintenance fees are just a little higher for some of the other resorts in the Vacation Village family like The Cliffs at Peace Canyon, also in Vegas, Vacation Village at Parkway in Orlando and the 3 different resorts in Weston, Florida, which are the Village at Bonaventure, the Vacation Village at Weston and Mizner Place at Weston Town Center. I often see listings for all of them on eBay and they usually go for a fairly low price.

Whatever you look at when it comes to buying resale pay close attention to any listing you are looking at to make sure you understand what closing costs you will have to pay. Some listings include all the closing costs paid by the seller. Usually the $224 fee for the first point week you put into the RCI program isn't included but lately I've seen some listings where the seller is even paying that. Once you have your first week in the RCI program any subsequent point weeks you would buy the the fee would only be $99. I've even seen listings that have two years points but the ones I've seen will usually require the buyer to pay this year's maintenance fees. One of the weeks we bought had two years points and I was happy to pay to get those extra points.

Lately on eBay and TUG I've seen people giving away or selling for next to nothing the 49,000 point weeks at Grandview Las Vegas, sometimes even paying all the closing costs. These are typically one bedroom weeks and maintenance fees are $380 for the year. I suggest you get one of these weeks and see what you are able to do with that number of points. You can borrow from the next use years points too. If you decide you want more points or to own at a specific resort you have plenty of time to look for deals.

With points you do always have the option of using "your week at your resort" but you have to arrange that by the start of your use year and you don't have to pay the $230 fee. We would never consider doing that because we get more weeks out of using our points vs getting only one week if we used "our week".

 

[GT75]

1) If I like the property, I would rather by used instead of new, but I searched TUG and cannot find any used memberships available. Am I searching incorrectly? How is it possible that there are none for sale?

HGVC Ocean Oak is a brand new property. Is just opened January 2018 for club guests. So basically, it hasn't been around long enough for it to have resales yet. Hilton has been selling the property for about two years now.

2) If I like the property, should I wait until a used one is available?

Wait or purchase a resale at another location. I suggest that you research and understand the system before you make a purchase. That offer to buy direct will always be there.

3) Is there a way to buy a used one at a different Hilton location and then use it to stay at this property all of the time?

Yes, it would be much cheaper to pickup resale at another location with low initial cost and low maintenance fees. The going rate for resale is ~$1/point. You can then trade into Ocean Oak during the club window. Please do note that Ocean Oak is very popular so you will need to book exactly at the 9-month window.

4) How can I found out what the hotbox offer is going to be? I want to be prepared and do my research ahead of time?

All of the rooms at Ocean Oak are the same, 2 Bd. The only difference will be view (Ocean front (end cap with direct view of ocean), Partial Ocean view (top floor) and regular 2 Bd (lower floors) and then season.

I would predict that you try to sell you for about $7/point and throw in some bonus points. Maintenance Fees for Ocean Oak is the same for all rooms at $1073/year with $159 club dues.

Artist Renderings Video
Ocean Oak Resort by Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Hilton Head

 

[GT75]

We do love the Hilton system, but I would suggest that you learn all about it before making any purchase. Here are the rules (https://d1m2ucn09z2f8d.cloudfront.n...708e2b594f7/2017-HGV-Club-Reference-Guide.PDF). The advantage to purchasing at Ocean Oak will be home week reservation window (will can book exact deeded room type for 1 week (Sat-Sat) in deeded season. This Home Week reservation window is 9-12 months out. At < 9 months out, anyone with points can book any room for 3 or more days.

 

[Jay Sultan]

I would predict that you try to sell you for about $7/point and throw in some bonus points. Maintenance Fees for Ocean Oak is the same for all rooms at $1073/year with $159 club dues.

This is fantastic information, just what I was hoping to learn. One more question: what is the basic number of points for an owner of Ocean Oak? Before the bonus, points, etc, what is the number of points I need to buy for this property?

 

[GT75]

what is the basic number of points for an owner of Ocean Oak?

Great, glad that it helped. If you look at the point chart above, the column on the right for 7 nights provide the number of points.

 

[GT75]

I moved this thread into the HGVC forum. I know that we have many in the HGVC forum that will be able to provide advice to the OP on an upcoming HGVC sales presentation at Ocean Oak.

 

[GT75]

When is you scheduled visit?

 

[Jay Sultan]

First week of May. At $7/point for the points listed, it seems I would be asked to pay $50k one time and about $1500 a year in junk fees. Given that this is not fractional ownership, it does not seem like a real value to me yet. I guess I will listen to the pitch and see what I learn. If we love the property, I may just see what it would cost to purchase individual stays whenever we want to go vs purchasing the timeshare itself.

 

[Talent312]

Whatever you decide, DO NO buy direct from HGVC. Retail prices are a rip-off.
RESALE prices (~$1.00/pt) make the pesky little rules and fees bearable.
Decent resale brokers... Judi Kozlowski & Seth Nock are highly regarded.

Just say no (1000x) and after the presentation, repair to a watering-hole to decompress.

.

 

[WalnutBaron]

First of all, welcome to TUG! The advice you've been offered by your fellow TUGgers is excellent. By buying through the resale market, you'll be paying pennies on the dollar compared to what the retail sales weasels will be trying to push on you. The only other comment I would add is that you are to be commended for finding TUG before going into the hotbox, as you put it--and before signing anything. You're already way ahead of the game! Nice going.

 

[GT75]

First week of May.

Please ensure that you update us after your visit. I would like to know what you think about the property, HGVC system and the accuracy of the information that I provided you (please correct me if I provided inaccuracate information). Thanks.

I will be there June 2-10 for a family vacation. This will be our first time.

 

[pedro47]

This resort looks awesome from their website. What is the property name next door?
Wait for a year or to and you can purchased resell at this location. You will be saving big bucks in your pocket.

 

[jeepinjoel]

Jay, excellent info here, and yes, please do check in after your visit.
Head's up! It's very difficult to say "no" at the sales site if you already want to get into a timeshare. That's how I was before I knew about the TUG user group. So there I was on Vacation in Hawaii - and yes... paid full price. that's the only regret I have, HGVC has been great besides that.
Resale - I'm 0 for 3 in the last 5 weeks trying to get a resale in Hawaii. My agent spoke to someone at HGVC, and apparently Hawaii inventory is low, so they are trying to grab as much low-hanging fruit as they can. And from some other posts, it's not just Hawaii.
That being said... should you buy retail? NO. someone else already pointed out... full retail will always be available. Enjoy your time there, learn everything you can.. then start putting offers in when you get back. Good Luck!

 

[Jay Sultan]

Well, I should have posted long ago, but the frustration level was too high.

I had a bad experience with a "reputable" time share company that so turned me off I cancelled the whole trip and am now soured on time shares.

I have a difficult job and it is very hard to get vacation time. My kids had been eagerly talking about this trip every day for a month. So you can imagine my shock when I learned Hilton Timeshares had pulled a bait and switch.

Three days before the trip, I received a call from the timeshare agent, to confirm my attendance at the hotbox session. They very casually mentioned the hotel I would be staying at, because I would not be staying at the resort, because the resort had become sold out for my 3 days.

Several things to understand: first, I am a pretty sophisticated consumer. I listen carefully to offers, especially when I think they are suspicious (and I think any time share offer is suspicious). I am 100% certain that, at the time of booking, I asked "will I actually be staying at the resort?" and the answer was an unqualified Yes. Second, I have been a diamond-level member of Hilton's frequent stayer program for years (i.e., a good customer) and I thought I would have some protection from typical time share scams because of it.

But, with 6 weeks of buildup (including the research I did here and my pre-calculated plan for what I would and would not pay to purchase a timeshare during the trip - and especially with the anticipation of my family and having secured the difficult days off), Hilton announced that I would be staying at another hotel nearby and only coming to the resort for a few hours to hear the hotbox. The hotel they wanted me to use was older and run down (again, I stay at a lot of hilton properties). Most importantly, it was not on the beach and it did not have the two bedroom and kitchen layout that is so critical to our being able to travel with our kids. Simply put, we have to have two bedrooms (so we can separate the kids) or no one sleeps.

I argued and argued with them about this bait and switch. They claim they said this in the booking call (and they most certainly did not; I would never have booked this if I thought there was even a 1% change of this happening). I reminded them that the original booking conversation was recorded and asked the manager to go listen to it and follow up with what he heard (he promised he would and then I never heard back).

So, after almost an hour of arguing (and my wife in tears as she listened and processed that we were not getting the vacation we planned), I canceled. I took money out of savings and booked a rental at an island 100 miles further away that had the features we need, so we could at least use my vacation days and give the kids a trip. And we would probably never consider a timeshare again.

My last question for this user group is as follows: how can I warn others about this? I thought Hilton was one of the reputable companies, but I was wrong. Most people reading this site are experienced time share folks who would not be fooled as I was (or maybe not care). But as I said, I am a pretty sophisticated consumer and this took me in and all my research into scams never prepared me for this particular scam.

 

[ljmiii]

First let me say that I am in no way a litigious person and I have never availed myself of the remedy I am about to suggest. But if you live in a state with a small claims court this is the perfect venue for your claim as you have tangible damages - your out of pocket vacation - and no lawyer is required (or really even desired). In NY it would cost you $20 for a claim up to $5,000 and you would get to issue a subpeona for the phone recording and any records they have of how often people have been 'bumped' from their resort. When the defendant is out of state they often don't show and it is difficult to satisfy judgement...but if you live in a state with a HGVC property and the small court works like NY's does then a lien would appear against it.

 

[Iggyearl]

Jay, the complaint sites are littered with articles from people who got the "bait and switch" accommodations story. You can search "Hilton timeshare complaints" and file your own story. But, the fact remains that they will fall back on the clause that "accommodations are subject to availability" and "terms and conditions are subject to change." If you had a written confirmation with an absolute guarantee - that would be an actionable circumstance. You just have some telephone jerk's promise. Unfortunately, Hilton hotels and Hilton timeshares are not even the same company. (Like Marriott - it was spun off) so you don't have much recourse with Hilton Honors. But I would write a letter with details asking for some compensation. Send one to each entity, and vent your frustration. You were wronged, and you have a right to be upset. Good luck.

 

[silentg]

Sorry you have gotten "soured off" timeshares. I see that you have joined TUG. Glad to have you with us. My husband and I have been timeshare owners since 1981. For many years we had just one little timeshare in Vermont. We bought from developer, was cheap and independent. We now have 6 timeshare weeks at 6 different resorts. Only one is a developer purchase at Orange Lake in Kissimmee. We use it for trades thru IHG. The others we have were all purchased resale thru tug members and one thru Sumday vacations. We have sold or given away 3 timeshares and will do this again. Stay on the TUG pages. Listen to advice and plan your vacations at timeshares. Don't ever sign up for Salespitches. Waste of time. Good Luck and hope you find a nice timeshare. PM me if you want more info.
Silentg

 

[Talent312]

Most TS-chains have sales operations and tactics that are about the sleaziest on the planet. Unfortunately, HGVC-Sales uses the same playbook they all use. It's a shame, becuz HGVC is actually one of the more consumer-friendly, flexible operations among TS-chains. They also treat resale buyers better than others.

Before you give up on TS's altogether, let me recommend this:
Rent a TS that's listed on a reputable site, like on TUG or Redweek, preferably a member of TUG. If you stay at a TS, avoid doing a "presentation," no matter what the gift. Instead, talk to owners around the pool and other activities about their likes and dislikes.

.

 

[pedro47]

Welcome to this web site and good luck. Do not look like you may want to buy. JUST SAY NO.

 

[JohnPaul]

I'm sorry to hear of your situation. We have done a number of these types of offers (including from Hilton) and received exactly what we expected. As they say here YMMV (your mileage may vary).

Time shares are a great opportunity but there are plenty of bad (sales) experiences to be had.