public TS companies' financial statements

[Kagehitokiri2]

ever shown gross profit margin per week vs construction cost?

(or total sales for sold out, vs construction cost)

 

[Rent_Share]

Mariott spun their Timeshare Unit into a seperate closely held corpration which has no SEC reporting requirements.

Hilton corp was taken private when the Blackstone Group acquired them

Not Sure if DVC, Hilton or Westin report on their timeshare holdings seperate


Despite the name there is a charge

There's a site called http://freeedgar.com/ where SEC filings can be located:

http://sec.edgar-online.com/wyndham-worldwide-corp/10-k-annual-report/2012/02/17/section36.aspx

Not seeing the 2012 Annual Report available yet

Somewhere on TUG is a powerpoint presentation the outlines the cost of sales on the timeshare product with different margins for selling new customers versus the existing owners

 

[pacodemountainside]

Not sure where I posted before!

Wyndham's costs and profits!


Description-...........................New Buyer.....Current Owner


Selling price in thousands..............$17K...............$22K

Brick, Stick and Mortar..................20% .................20%

Selling............................................58....................32

Bad debts.......................................16....................12

Profit.................................. .............6 ....................36

Source: Main Man at security analysts presentations and SEC 10K


If you go to WWW web site and I assume others there is a financial section where you can review the entire post which I excerpted above info from and a direct link to annual SEC 10K..

The 10K is very formal legal and financial document with tons of info about a company's operations. The PR operation takes and extracts selected financial data from it , adds lot of pretty pictures and some BS from Main Main and send to owners as annual report.

Also, for Wyndham audited annual financials are available for VOI Trust and CWA Trust!

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

Despite the name there is a charge

There's a site called http://freeedgar.com/ where SEC filings can be located:

http://sec.edgar-online.com/wyndham-worldwide-corp/10-k-annual-report/2012/02/17/section36.aspx

Not seeing the 2012 Annual Report available yet

Somewhere on TUG is a powerpoint presentation the outlines the cost of sales on the timeshare product with different margins for selling new customers versus the existing owners

ever shown - has anyone ever seen

i use http://www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/companysearch.html if not company site

dont care about cost of sales / net

what i mean is (building cost divided by units) and (sold out total sales divided by units divided by 52 weeks)

 

[rod]

The accepted industry financial performance for the development of timeshare resorts is, as a percentage of the average selling price:

25% - product costs
- - - - - land acquisition and construction OR inventory acquisition
50% - sales and marketing costs
- - - - - lead generation
- - - - - tour costs
- - - - - sales commissions
- - - - - sales administration
25% - profit margin
- - - - - overhead (interest, utilities, taxes, maintenance, etc on unsold units)
- - - - - operating profit

I assume that overhead and operating profit were lumped together because if the developer has a good sales staff and the resort is sold out quickly, the overhead portion of the profit margin is low and the operating profit is high.

 

[dioxide45]

The accepted industry financial performance for the development of timeshare resorts is, as a percentage of the average selling price:

25% - product costs
- - - - - land acquisition and construction OR inventory acquisition
50% - sales and marketing costs
- - - - - lead generation
- - - - - tour costs
- - - - - sales commissions
- - - - - sales administration
25% - profit margin
- - - - - overhead (interest, utilities, taxes, maintenance, etc on unsold units)
- - - - - operating profit

I assume that overhead and operating profit were lumped together because if the developer has a good sales staff and the resort is sold out quickly, the overhead portion of the profit margin is low and the operating profit is high.

They can also offset overhead by renting out unsold units.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Not sure where OP is coming from, but virtually all companies consider detailed financial information propriety and only available to senior accounting staff and top management.

So, lets take a ball park approach.

Developer buys a few acres in vacation area and is going to put up 10 two BR condos with 10 units each which will cost $300K per unit. His savvy accountant points out that would be 100 units and maybe $50K profit each. However, if he makes TSs he can make a lot more money. So Developer has 50 Intervals per unit (keeps a couple for himself) which he sells for average of $30K depending on season/demand. This brings in $1,500,000. Of course, to do this he has to spend around a $900K for scamming sales weasels. So it cost him $300K to build, $900K to sell and he has $300K profit.

But the real real kicker is he(HOA) sign a life time contract for him to manage at cost plus 10%. No wonder all the big guys jumped into TSs!

So to OP question:

"dont care about cost of sales / net

what i mean is (building cost divided by units) and (sold out total sales divided by units divided by 52 weeks) "

Building cost including infra structure , etc. equals $3 million

Divided by 10 units equals $300K per unit

50 Intervals sold for $30K each equals $1,500,000

$1,500,000 gross sales divided by 10 units equals $150K

$150K divided by 50 Intervals equals $3K per Interval profit

$300K building cost divided by 50 Intervals equals $6K per unit

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

ive seen plenty of detailed breakouts in financial statements, and i havent even looked at that many

i dont think im going to go through some looking for this, and i imagine if this has ever been published, someone here knows

although i guess one cant ignore cost of sales.. (because its totally different from real estate)

 

[benyu2010]

25% - product costs
- - - - - land acquisition and construction OR inventory acquisition
50% - sales and marketing costs
- - - - - lead generation
- - - - - tour costs
- - - - - sales commissions
- - - - - sales administration
25% - profit margin
- - - - - overhead (interest, utilities, taxes, maintenance, etc on unsold units)
- - - - - operating profit

It makes sense that resale value of most TSes are equal or less of the product cost, 25% of retail price or less.