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Please explain Marriott resale to me!

JIMinNC

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Gold week, lagoon/pool view just sold for $1,925.00 Patrick

Highly unlikely that sale will actually go through. Most likely will be taken by Marriott under ROFR as kds4 pointed out.

The prices you quote from 2012 for gold season - $5000 to $6000 or more are much more realistic, and are a far cry from being "given away". And in 2012 the economy was still digging out of a deep recession, so that helped deflate prices.

The other cheaper eBay sales you noted in post #17 are all Silver or Bronze weeks. Even Marriott sells those fairly cheap through their own resale operation and their prices are much higher than the third party market. (We paid $3300 for a Silver Barony as part of a 2014 Hybrid Bundle from Marriott, but if we hadn't wanted the enrollment and the points, we could have probably bought that same Silver week for around $2000, maybe even less on a bargain basement like eBay.) But even then, those off-season weeks are not being "given away." Silver HHI weeks do seem to be able to trade into Gold season (we're doing just that for a trip this coming September). I would hate to have to play the trading game every year, but as an occasional strategy, trading our cheap Silver week into Gold season is a nice option. I doubt Silver would be a reliable way to get Platinum summer, however.
 

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It could be more, it could be less. That is a data point you need to consider. The points MF is about $0.53/point. Depending on the week you choose, the maintenance fee could wind up being more or less than that, depending on how many points the week is worth. Generally, the cheaper, lower season weeks wind up with higher MF/point ratios than high season weeks. Think of it this way - someone who owns a off-season week at a resort pays the same MF as an owner who owns a prime season week, but that prime week is worth a lot more points than that off season week. The issue you'll run into though with hybrid bundles is those prime time weeks are worth a lot of Destination Points, so the cost of the matching points requirement can start to get very, very expensive. In the end it's a balancing act that you have to weigh the upfront cost vs. the ongoing MF cost.
Very helpful! Thank you. Just to clarify, if we're looking at what appears to be a more expensive FL resort unit for a platinum week, which will then be worth more points, we'll need to buy a larger chunk of points if we want the bundle vs. if we were to buy a less expensive resort/unit? So much to consider!
 

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Very helpful! Thank you. Just to clarify, if we're looking at what appears to be a more expensive FL resort unit for a platinum week, which will then be worth more points, we'll need to buy a larger chunk of points if we want the bundle vs. if we were to buy a less expensive resort/unit? So much to consider!



Your best bang for the buck is to stay away from points, period. Buy a week on the resale market and use it to trade via Interval International.

If you're really into the points then I suggest you rent the points (and have the owner make the reservations for you) & that will run you about 55 cents per point. Try them before you buy them!




.
 

JIMinNC

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Very helpful! Thank you. Just to clarify, if we're looking at what appears to be a more expensive FL resort unit for a platinum week, which will then be worth more points, we'll need to buy a larger chunk of points if we want the bundle vs. if we were to buy a less expensive resort/unit? So much to consider!

Yes. More expensive Platinum weeks are worth a lot more points than a low season week, so the matching point buy can get a lot more expensive. There is a chart maintained by TUGgers that shows what different weeks are worth. Here is a link to that chart:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...guovIlHjggivemuPWYpnkSaXg/edit#gid=1983378178

Using that chart, you can see how many points the week you may be looking at exchanges for (It also shows maintenance fees, so you can calculate the MF cost per point). Multiply the point value (rounded up to 250 point increments) by some estimate of the price Marriott will charge (list is $13+ per point, but for any purchase over about 2000 points, they seem to discount to under $12/point. For bigger purchases, you might even get under $11/point, but I'm not sure if they will go that low or not). Add to the points cost the cost of the resale week and you will have the total cost (closing costs will add a little more).

In the post above, TheTimeTraveler recommends you stay away from points entirely and focus on traditional weeks-based Interval International trading. If getting the absolute lowest price for week-long trips is your primary goal, that is probably very good advice. But points and weeks are not the same product. Points offer much greater flexibility -- the ability to vary your stay to lengths shorter or longer than 7-day increments, the ability to control which view category you want (exchangers, by contrast, get last choice in view category), the ability to choose which unit size -- Studio, 1BR, 2BR, or 3BR -- you want for any given trip, a more hotel-like reservation/booking system rather than the deposit/search waiting game inherent in weeks-based Interval International trading, etc. Traditional weeks, while much cheaper, are much less flexible than points. It's really dependent on what you are looking for, what you can afford, and how much flexibility you demand. I personally dislike the weeks-based trading process and like to book shorter stays often, so I'm a fan of points. Others on TUG get great results with trading and like the cost efficiency of pure resale weeks and find no need for points. You'll need to figure out which approach is best for you. I would recommend you not buy anything until you figure that out.

The point rental approach TheTimeTraveler mentions is also a lower cost option with no up front cost, but just be aware that if you pursue this approach and you do not own points of your own, you will be asking others to make points reservations on your behalf. They will control the reservation, but will add your name as an "additional guest" and you will pay that other owner for that booking, not Marriott. Some people are comfortable with these kinds of person-to-person transactions, but others of us are not. Again, you'll need to decide which camp you fall into.

On the other hand, if you already own points of your own, you can use point rentals to supplement your owned points. If you own points, you will have your own points account, and when you strike a deal with another owner to rent their excess points, Marriott will allow that owner to call up Marriott and transfer those points directly into YOUR account. That way, those points immediately become yours and you can make your own reservations and you are not beholding to that other owner to hold the reservation on your behalf.
 
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davidvel

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We haven't settled on a point total or price point yet. We're still exploring all our options. If we went straight points, we would do resale. I need to do more research on where we would travel and points needed though. If we did the Hybrid package, we would focus on getting the resort and season that we would be inclined to use at least every other year (probably Ft. Lauderdale Platinum), with the intention of then using the exchange and points for trips other years. I'm just trying to fully understand what the Hybrid option is and how it's packaged.
Before you venture further, you should figure out NOT how many points you want, but how many you need for the exact unit and week(s) you would typically reserve. Only then can you decide what you should buy. 1500 won't get you much at all.
 

JIMinNC

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Before you venture further, you should figure out NOT how many points you want, but how many you need for the exact unit and week(s) you would typically reserve. Only then can you decide what you should buy. 1500 won't get you much at all.

This is very good advice from David. You need to understand the number of points it takes in the MVC system to book the vacations you'll want to take with points. Here's a link to the 2018 MVC Points chart for all the resorts:

http://www.marriottvacationclub.com...Tools/resorts/charts/pdfDisplay/2018_full.pdf

Use this to shop and dream about the places you want to go, the seasons you want to travel, and the unit sizes you will need. That will help you figure out how many points you really NEED. Also remember that for that big trip that requires a lot of points, you can borrow points from a future year and/or bank points from the current year into the next year. You only have to bank or borrow the amount of points you need to get enough points for the trip you want to take. For example, if you have 4000 points available every year, but you want to book something in 2018 that requires 7000 points, you can use all of your 4000 2018 points, but then you can bank 3000 points from 2017 into 2018 OR borrow 3000 points from 2019. Or, you could bank 1000 leftover points from 2017, and then only have to borrow 2000 points from 2019, to get you to 7000 points in 2018. Obviously, banking/borrowing reduces the points you have available to use in those other years, but it it gives you the flexibility to move points around to accomplish your goals.
 

MommyErin

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This is very good advice from David. You need to understand the number of points it takes in the MVC system to book the vacations you'll want to take with points. Here's a link to the 2018 MVC Points chart for all the resorts:

http://www.marriottvacationclub.com...Tools/resorts/charts/pdfDisplay/2018_full.pdf

Use this to shop and dream about the places you want to go, the seasons you want to travel, and the unit sizes you will need. That will help you figure out how many points you really NEED. Also remember that for that big trip that requires a lot of points, you can borrow points from a future year and/or bank points from the current year into the next year. You only have to bank or borrow the amount of points you need to get enough points for the trip you want to take. For example, if you have 4000 points available every year, but you want to book something in 2018 that requires 7000 points, you can use all of your 4000 2018 points, but then you can bank 3000 points from 2017 into 2018 OR borrow 3000 points from 2019. Or, you could bank 1000 leftover points from 2017, and then only have to borrow 2000 points from 2019, to get you to 7000 points in 2018. Obviously, banking/borrowing reduces the points you have available to use in those other years, but it it gives you the flexibility to move points around to accomplish your goals.
I agree! The hypothetical trip planning is the fun part ;-) I did flip through that document yesterday to see Caribbean point charts and locations, but before I went down the rabbit hole of vacation point planning and spreadsheets, I wanted to understand the product a bit more. This discussion has been really helpful in showing me what's available (weeks, points, hybrid) and how to acquire it. So thank you for that! Now to do more lurking, research, and break out excel!

One additional question about purchasing a resale week from Marriott: with the resort I was looking at and looking at the link you provided for points and MFs, there's only a "gold" and "platinum", so am I correct in assuming if you buy platinum you can book anytime within the designated platinum period? And if we only bought the week, no points, we could still exchange it through II some years? Thank you!
 

kds4

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I agree! The hypothetical trip planning is the fun part ;-) I did flip through that document yesterday to see Caribbean point charts and locations, but before I went down the rabbit hole of vacation point planning and spreadsheets, I wanted to understand the product a bit more. This discussion has been really helpful in showing me what's available (weeks, points, hybrid) and how to acquire it. So thank you for that! Now to do more lurking, research, and break out excel!

One additional question about purchasing a resale week from Marriott: with the resort I was looking at and looking at the link you provided for points and MFs, there's only a "gold" and "platinum", so am I correct in assuming if you buy platinum you can book anytime within the designated platinum period? And if we only bought the week, no points, we could still exchange it through II some years? Thank you!
Short answer - Yes. Using our home resort Grande Vista as an example, you have access to every week within the season you own (first come, first serve - which is why being aware of the inventory release dates is important to get a reservation in for the week you desire as early as possible). If we decide in a given year that we don't want to go there (or go in our season), we have deposited our unit with II and used it to exchange elsewhere (or even back into Grande Vista). The ability to lock-off Grande Vista units (a 3BR becomes a 2BR and a Studio), has also been a plus as we have regularly been able to 'uptrade' those smaller units into larger ones. Our studio has even gotten us back into a 3BR at other MVCI properties using II. But, here's the best trick to II in my opinion. I have turned my 7 day ownership into 24 days of occupancy through II. Impossible, you say? Stay with me.

As discussed above, I take one of my 3BR Grande Vista weeks and lock it off into a 2BR and Studio. I then make 2 deposits to II. That 7 days is now worth 14 days (7 days x 2 units). I then use the II Short Stay Exchange option to take each of those deposits and turn them into 2 'short stays' of up to 6 days each. Now I have up to 24 days of occupancy from that 1 week I owned (6 days x 2 'short stays' x 2 deposits = 24 nights).

Note - there is a specific list of properties and months to select from when using the Short Stay Exchange option. That means you only get a restricted inventory to choose from. However, for our travel patterns it has enabled us to truly maximize an ownership week on more than one occasion and Orlando inventory (including Marriott resorts) have appeared regularly (if that is a destination you are interested in frequenting).

Of course - your mileage may vary, but I wanted to ensure you were at least aware of that aspect of II.

Good luck.
 

MommyErin

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Short answer - Yes. Using our home resort Grande Vista as an example, you have access to every week within the season you own (first come, first serve - which is why being aware of the inventory release dates is important to get a reservation in for the week you desire as early as possible). If we decide in a given year that we don't want to go there (or go in our season), we have deposited our unit with II and used it to exchange elsewhere (or even back into Grande Vista). The ability to lock-off Grande Vista units (a 3BR becomes a 2BR and a Studio), has also been a plus as we have regularly been able to 'uptrade' those smaller units into larger ones. Our studio has even gotten us back into a 3BR at other MVCI properties using II. But, here's the best trick to II in my opinion. I have turned my 7 day ownership into 24 days of occupancy through II. Impossible, you say? Stay with me.

As discussed above, I take one of my 3BR Grande Vista weeks and lock it off into a 2BR and Studio. I then make 2 deposits to II. That 7 days is now worth 14 days (7 days x 2 units). I then use the II Short Stay Exchange option to take each of those deposits and turn them into 2 'short stays' of up to 6 days each. Now I have up to 24 days of occupancy from that 1 week I owned (6 days x 2 'short stays' x 2 deposits = 24 nights).

Note - there is a specific list of properties and months to select from when using the Short Stay Exchange option. That means you only get a restricted inventory to choose from. However, for our travel patterns it has enabled us to truly maximize an ownership week on more than one occasion and Orlando inventory (including Marriott resorts) have appeared regularly (if that is a destination you are interested in frequenting).

Of course - your mileage may vary, but I wanted to ensure you were at least aware of that aspect of II.

Good luck.
Thanks for the example! So if we purchase a week resale, for II trading purposes it would be to our advantage to buy a 2-bedroom lockoff instead of just a 2-bedroom so it can be traded as two units instead of one the years we don't plan to use it, correct? Also, are there advantages to trading a platinum week through II? Thanks!
 

kds4

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Unless you are committed to buying at a specific resort that doesn't have lock-offs, I would look to buy a lock-off unit over a dedicated unit. I will tell you that not all Marriott properties offer units that lock-off. In Orlando, both Grande Vista and Lakeshore Reserve do. I would also ensure you understand 'how' the unit you want buy will lock off. For example, if it is a 2BR you are looking to purchase, will it lock off as two 1BR units or as a 1BR and a Studio? As far as a platinum versus gold season week, I'm not convinced it makes much difference for II trading power (at least in Orlando).
 

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I would recommend buying a lock off as you get a bigger bang for your buck. I've personally traded into some difficult to get resorts at peak times like Christmas, New Years, spring break, Thanksgiving using 1br or studio lock off units. Thus far for me, using a 2 br to trade has been an overkill as I've been able to trade the 1 br or studio for 2 or 3 brs units sometimes.

I know JIMinNC is a big fan of points, but as some others have pointed out you can get great value from buying a resale week (many are being sold for next to nothing as Marriott stopped rebuying most resorts). With how much you pay to trade, you can opt to stay part of the week and still be ahead of what the costs would be via points.

Lets take the example of the Caribbean you were looking at :
2br OV Aruba Ocean Club ranges from 2750 to 6875 depending on when you go in the year.
MF (assuming $0.55 per point) $1512.5 - $3781.25
Resale points at $7/point is $19,250 - $48,125.
Amortize 20 years of usage $962.50 - $2406.25.
MF plus your amortized cost ($1512.50 + 962.60) = $2475 to ($3781.25 + $2406.25 =) $6187.50

Please remember points are subject to availability of those times at the resort, so even if you have the points you aren't guaranteed you can even get into that resort, but on average most are getting what they seek.

Resale weeks can go for as little as $1. I would choose Platinum over Gold, as in the resale market, they price differential is absolutely minimal except for some really select resorts. The main reason for me, is that Platinum theoretically is the best trader (but debatable) with the highest demand times, but when you go to eventually get rid of it, Platinum is more attractive than Gold. I always look at the future exit strategy. Lets say you even pay $1000 vs $500 for gold, in the big picture, it doesn't amount to much but your chances of getting rid of the platinum later is much better. But the MF for cheap traders are about $1100-$1300 plus $80 to lock off the unit. Lets assume $1300 with lock off, split in two is $650 for each of the 1 br and studio. The cost to join II is $99.

Assume purchase $1000
Amort 20 years $ 50
MF w/ lock off $1300
II $ 99
Marriott to Marriott trade $ 129 x 2 (trading each side)
Upgrade size to 2 br $ 99 x 3 (1 br to 2 br is 1 step, studio to 2 br 2 steps, so 3 total)

Total Yearly $2004 for 2 weeks, $1002 per week.
(also eligible for 2 bonus weeks for additional trade fees that would bring the average cost down)

Trading is also subject to availability and is not guaranteed either, but the cost is so much lower.

You can make points cheaper by renting them for $0.50 per point and your cost would then be $1375-3437.50 per week.

For me, it has not made economic sense to purchase points thus far and I own 5 cheap trader weeks and 3 Hawaii Holiday weeks. I've been able to use my cheap traders to go to Hawaii on a regular basis and it is cheaper than owning the weeks in Hawaii even as MF for the Hawaii weeks are about $2200 per week plus the cost to purchase those weeks.

From most people's travel requirements, points are an expensive alternative for more "flexibility" when that may or may not be required. Maybe assess where you want to go and price it out completely from buying points and MF. The costs will amaze you.
 

JIMinNC

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Quadmaniac has made a strong argument for the cost efficiency of resale weeks versus points. There is no question with the right purchase, resale weeks can offer a much cheaper way to travel than points. If cost is your primary consideration, or if there is a resort that you want to go to many/most years, then absolutely you should consider a resale week instead of points. There are very few cases - if any - where points offer a cheaper way to travel than resale weeks.

Having said that, points offer a lot of advantages. You just have to determine whether those advantages are important to you. In our case, we will use weeks for specific places we want to go (we may buy an EOY week in Maui to use there) and are willing to trade our existing Barony Beach Club week from time to time when it makes sense, and the trade is fairly easy and straightforward. But for the vast majority of our timeshare travel needs, we will use points for the following reasons:

1.) The reservation process is very similar to booking a hotel room - go online, look at availability, and book a vacation. So far, for our needs, we've gotten exactly what we want every time. Admittedly, we generally haven't been looking for holiday weeks or summer beach weeks.

2.) We generally detest the weeks-based trading system and the amount of work you have to do to get what you want -- reserve an attractive week at your resort, deposit it with II, and then place an exchange search request and wait...and wait...and wait. Our trade requests with II and before that with another ownership, RCI, have always been fulfilled, but I hate the waiting and the uncertainty inherent in that process.

3.) With points, we can easily book long weekends, shorter than 7-day stays, and with Sunday-Thursday night stays, can really stretch the value of our points. It's also easy to change plans and cancel and rebook. We used the points from a canceled 7-day 2BR OF points booking at Maui Ocean Club to book 17 nights on four different trips over the last 12-18 months - two three night trips, a four night trip, and a seven night trip. No way we could have done this if it had been a canceled II trade.

4.) With points, we can guarantee (subject to availability) the unit size and view we want - OF, OV, whatever. We can stretch our points by booking a Studio or 1BR if it's just my wife and me, or spend more points and book a 2BR if we are traveling with the family. We used points for our spring trip to Hilton Head a couple weeks ago and booked a great ocean front room at Barony. By contrast, our fall trip this coming September was an Interval International trade into Grande Ocean, and even though the unit that was noted on our confirmation is an ocean front unit (that's what was deposited), in all likelihood, since we will be an exchanger, we will probably get assigned an ocean side unit when we arrive in September. We might get lucky I guess, but with trading, there is no way to guarantee the view we get. With points, we know what our view will be when we book.

So for us - points are well worth the price premium and we will likely be adding to our point totals over the next year or two (maybe another hybrid bundle built around that EOY Maui Ocean Club week I mentioned above). But one size certainly does not fit all, so each individual needs to assess whether the advantages of points are worth it for them. If not, and if you're willing to accept the compromises and lack of flexibility in traditional weeks, then it's hard to find a better financial value than traditional resale weeks.
 

kds4

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I think Quad and Jim have given very good descriptions of both sides of the Marriott timeshare system (and it's a good system which is why we have chosen to play in both sides ourselves - weeks and points, like Jim). I will say, we started out by buying a single resale week and building from there. This was the lowest initial investment, and as we 'learned' more about the Marriott system and what worked best for us from our experiences occupying/trading, we have bought and sold additional weeks and gone on to buy points (both developer and resale) as well.

The question for the OP is which side of the Marriott system will meet your wants/needs now (and in the future) - weeks, points, or both? Don't be surprised if that answer evolves over time. It certainly has for us.
 
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Quadmaniac

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For sure its an evolution. I started with resale weeks to trade and eventually purchased weeks of where I wanted to go, to use / rent out as it made economic sense.

The down side is very minimal as your cost to get in is low. My concern for the OP is that they are getting into something they might not be sure of and once you commit, the cash outlay is large. I would suggest trying out the resale weeks and decide if the system works for you or not.
 

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Yes. More expensive Platinum weeks are worth a lot more points than a low season week, so the matching point buy can get a lot more expensive. There is a chart maintained by TUGgers that shows what different weeks are worth. Here is a link to that chart:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...guovIlHjggivemuPWYpnkSaXg/edit#gid=1983378178

Using that chart, you can see how many points the week you may be looking at exchanges for (It also shows maintenance fees, so you can calculate the MF cost per point). Multiply the point value (rounded up to 250 point increments) by some estimate of the price Marriott will charge (list is $13+ per point, but for any purchase over about 2000 points, they seem to discount to under $12/point. For bigger purchases, you might even get under $11/point, but I'm not sure if they will go that low or not). Add to the points cost the cost of the resale week and you will have the total cost (closing costs will add a little more).

In the post above, TheTimeTraveler recommends you stay away from points entirely and focus on traditional weeks-based Interval International trading. If getting the absolute lowest price for week-long trips is your primary goal, that is probably very good advice. But points and weeks are not the same product. Points offer much greater flexibility -- the ability to vary your stay to lengths shorter or longer than 7-day increments, the ability to control which view category you want (exchangers, by contrast, get last choice in view category), the ability to choose which unit size -- Studio, 1BR, 2BR, or 3BR -- you want for any given trip, a more hotel-like reservation/booking system rather than the deposit/search waiting game inherent in weeks-based Interval International trading, etc. Traditional weeks, while much cheaper, are much less flexible than points. It's really dependent on what you are looking for, what you can afford, and how much flexibility you demand. I personally dislike the weeks-based trading process and like to book shorter stays often, so I'm a fan of points. Others on TUG get great results with trading and like the cost efficiency of pure resale weeks and find no need for points. You'll need to figure out which approach is best for you. I would recommend you not buy anything until you figure that out.

The point rental approach TheTimeTraveler mentions is also a lower cost option with no up front cost, but just be aware that if you pursue this approach and you do not own points of your own, you will be asking others to make points reservations on your behalf. They will control the reservation, but will add your name as an "additional guest" and you will pay that other owner for that booking, not Marriott. Some people are comfortable with these kinds of person-to-person transactions, but others of us are not. Again, you'll need to decide which camp you fall into.

On the other hand, if you already own points of your own, you can use point rentals to supplement your owned points. If you own points, you will have your own points account, and when you strike a deal with another owner to rent their excess points, Marriott will allow that owner to call up Marriott and transfer those points directly into YOUR account. That way, those points immediately become yours and you can make your own reservations and you are not beholding to that other owner to hold the reservation on your behalf.
Interesting, just attended a presentation today and the sales rep had never heard of anyone renting points from another owner. I know from this website and from another sales rep that it can happen.
 

JIMinNC

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For sure its an evolution. I started with resale weeks to trade and eventually purchased weeks of where I wanted to go, to use / rent out as it made economic sense.

The down side is very minimal as your cost to get in is low. My concern for the OP is that they are getting into something they might not be sure of and once you commit, the cash outlay is large. I would suggest trying out the resale weeks and decide if the system works for you or not.

The OP definitely needs to do a lot more research before committing, on that we can 100% agree. But if the decision is weeks vs. points, trying out the weeks system doesn't really give you a comparison between the advantages of the points system and the advantages of the weeks system. If you just buy a resale week, you only get exposed to that half of the system. I'm fairly sure if we had taken that approach in July 2014, we would not be nearly as happy with the Marriott program as we are today. Yes, we spent a lot more money than had we just bought a resale week, but the combination of weeks and points has worked so much better than just one side or the other.

I think a better approach for the OP is to wait before spending anything, do research and ask yourself at least these questions - 1.) Are the characteristics of Points that are described in post #37 important to you and the way you vacation? 2.) If the answer to question #1 is "yes", can you afford the higher cost of points? If the answer to both questions is "yes" then maybe points are a better option. But if the answer to either question is "no", then it would be better to stick to regular weeks, or maybe not buy at all.
 
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MommyErin

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Thank you! I really appreciate the detailed posts regarding pros and cons of weeks vs. points. The plan for now is buy resale DVC in the near future (since I've already researched that to death for almost a year and it makes sense for us since Disney is one of our regular destinations) and keep researching Marriott and other timeshare options. We'll see how we like the DVC points system, assess our travel needs, and decide from there whether another timeshare purchase makes sense for us and whether weeks or points would better fit our needs. Thanks again!
 

kds4

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Glad you found a strategy for your family. Good luck.
 
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