Pacific Property Transfer - Scam Artists?

[Beefnot]

Bumping to the top of the board and will do so weekly until this has been resolved. Want to warn others NOT to do business with Pacific Property Transfer.

Just as importantly, not to purchase from selltimeshare.org

 

[Amy]

Also, if this is a Flordia Timeshare, you may want to contact the Flordia folk also.

This is a good suggestion. Florida's AG office seems pretty on top of timeshare fraudulent activities.

 

[Dorian]

Just as importantly, not to purchase from selltimeshare.org

Yes indeed, thank you!

 

[Dorian]

This is a good suggestion. Florida's AG office seems pretty on top of timeshare fraudulent activities.

Thank you, another angle wouldn't hurt.

 

[Robert D]

Lister was Matt Shell/SellTimeShare.org
Purchase agreements was Stepahanie Box/Pacific
Closer was Marianne Arteaga/Pacific

Did you leave negative feedback for selltimeshare.org?

 

[Beefnot]

Did you leave negative feedback for selltimeshare.org?

I believe OP was strung along past the 45 day feedback window. Ebay really needs to allow more time than 45 days for feedback on real estate transactions, which often have very extended cycle times. Many of these ebay timeshare sellers would have horrible ratings and/or would engage in better customer service.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I believe OP was strung along past the 45 day feedback window. Ebay really needs to allow more time than 45 days for feedback on real estate transactions, which often have very extended cycle times. Many of these ebay timeshare sellers would have horrible ratings and/or would engage in better customer service.

I believe it is 60 days but your point is valid. It should be longer for timeshares. It leaves the feedback option available right up to 60 days then of course everything disappears because ebay's database purges everything at more than 60 days

 

[csxjohn]

I believe it is 60 days but your point is valid. It should be longer for timeshares. It leaves the feedback option available right up to 60 days then of course everything disappears because ebay's database purges everything at more than 60 days

I'm thinking that if the deed transfer takes more than 60 days, leave negative feed back for not performing in a timely manner.

I'm not talking about the resort transfer process but if the deed can't be recorded in less than 60 days something is wrong. Leave them the ding and maybe they'll start to use someone who can transfer the deeds efficiently.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I'm thinking that if the deed transfer takes more than 60 days, leave negative feed back for not performing in a timely manner.

I'm not talking about the resort transfer process but if the deed can't be recorded in less than 60 days something is wrong. Leave them the ding and maybe they'll start to use someone who can transfer the deeds efficiently.

I do not think that is a good approach. The county records the deed. There are counties that take a long time and it might not have anything to do with the closing company. With a Marriott and their ROFR right you can easily hit a little past 60 days on a routine transfer and that is with everything going smooth.

 

[Dorian]

To answer the last couple of posts:

No, as stated I was unable to leave negative feedback because it had exceeded the 60 day window. Yes, there really should be more time allotted to leave feedback for transactions like this. These things can take some time to process and one mistake can easily push you out past the allowed time frame. In good faith I trusted they'd correct the error and I'd get what I purchased. As you can see, I was wrong and foolish to do so.

That being said, Pacific Property Transfer responded to my BBB complaint with this:

Company's Response
Company's Initial Response - Posted 01/11/2013
Absolutely, the deed is in process of being corrected with the county. Please keep in mind that the bid was not won through our company, they simply chose to use our company for the processing and PT made errors in recording. We apologize for the mistake and are in process of fixing the error.
Initial Response Summary
Absolutely, the deed is in process of being corrected with the county.

Not sure how they plan on getting the deed "corrected" other than convincing the other person who was sold/granted the property to just hand it back over. Well, all I can do is wait and see what they can accomplish before I make a decision on my next steps. If I don't get favorable resolution it will be small claims court next.

Will keep you all updated.

Edited to comment on something they said in their reply:

"Please keep in mind that the bid was not won through our company, they simply chose to use our company for the processing and PT made errors in recording."

It WAS won through their company under their other name "SellTimeShare.org". I did not choose Pacific to handle the transfer of deeds. The original seller on eBay, SellTimeShare.org used them and I was not given a choice of closer. They are the same company so at least half of their response to the BBB is a half truth at best.

 

[rickandcindy23]

"Please keep in mind that the bid was not won through our company, they simply chose to use our company for the processing and PT made errors in recording."

It WAS won through their company under their other name "SellTimeShare.org". I did not choose Pacific to handle the transfer of deeds. The original seller on eBay, SellTimeShare.org used them and I was not given a choice of closer. They are the same company so at least half of their response to the BBB is a half truth at best.

These companies force buyers to use their closing companies, which is in fact the same company as the eBay sellers. Sure the closing company is technically owned by someone else, if it's actually licensed at all, but it's usually a close relative. Got to spread the wealth around.

Just give them a refund, Pacific Transfer, and stop playing this game. There are good eBay sellers, and there are bad ones. These guys are the bad ones.

I am blocked from bidding on their auctions. :rofl:Oh well!

 

[Dorian]

Update -

Pacific Property Transfer responded to the BBB inquiry again. I am posting the BBB case with my original complaint, their first response, my response, and their second response:

Complaint ID: 98743577
Complaint Classification:

Complaint Description - Posted 12/26/2012 10:55:56 AM


On September 25th, 2012 I won an auction for an RCI points timeshare at Vacation Village in Kissimmee, Florida. The total cost to me was $400.25 for the winning bid, closing costs, and maintenance fees. I was told the deed would be processed to be transferred into my name. Followed was months of errors and lies by Pacific. There were several delays that I was told was caused by clerical mistakes, employees necessary to the transaction being off of work, and misfiled information at the county level. Then in November I was told that the deed was finally processed and sent to my timeshare resort for processing. A few weeks go by and the resort tells me Pacific sent a check made out to the wrong company and was returned. Weeks go by and Pacific tells me they resent the deed with the correct check. A few weeks go by and I am told by the resort that the deed is in someone else’s name The resort says there is nothing they can do about this as they have to honor the name on the deed as the rightful owner. Again two weeks of calling Pacific and told they'd call back, ignored voice messages, unanswered emails. I do have a signed electronic contract that shows exactly what I purchased. I expect them to honor the contract. I have a deed that they sent to me that shows my name on it but apparently the other persons deed was filed first so that is the deed that will be honored. I had enough and warned them I'd be filing complaints but was again ignored.

Complaint Summary


I was scammed for my money and then ignored by Pacific Property Transfer after I won an auction for a timeshare as it was sold to another person.

Resolution Sought

A property of at least an equal points value or reimbursement.

Additional Information
Date Problem First Occurred:
9/25/2012
Product or Service:
Model Name or Number:
Date Purchased:
Order Number:
Amount In Dispute: $400.25


Company's Response
Company's Initial Response - Posted 01/11/2013
Absolutely, the deed is in process of being corrected with the county. Please keep in mind that the bid was not won through our company, they simply chose to use our company for the processing and PT made errors in recording. We apologize for the mistake and are in process of fixing the error.
Initial Response Summary
Absolutely, the deed is in process of being corrected with the county.



Consumer's Rebuttal
Consumer's Rebuttal - Posted 01/14/2013
Two things, first, I did not choose Pacific Property Transfer to handle the closing. The seller on eBay SellTimeShare.org and Pacific Property Transfer are the same company. I had to use them as part of the deal. Second, I am doubting this is accurate as I have already spoken to Osceola County, Florida where the deed was recorded and it is recorded in another party's name. I believe this property was sold to two people and the other person (Simon J. Angelini)just got lucky and had the deed recorded in his name first. That said, if Pacific Property Transfer hadn't made mistakes and dragged their feet the deed would have been recorded in my name. Unless Pacific Property Transfer can get Simon J. Angelini to give me the property back, I don't see how they can get the deed recorded in my name. I STILL have not heard a peep from Pacific Property Transfer in all this time now. I have no idea what's going on. I will wait for the results of this action and if it cannot be fixed I will file a claim against them in court and will include airfare, hotel, money they took from me, lost work, court costs, and punitive damages.



Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 01/17/2013
Again, we apologize for the error in recording, but the error will be fixed before the end of January. This client did not choose to use Pacific Transfer, SellTimeshare.org uses our services. We are not the same company, Pacific Transfers is simply the title transfer agency used by SellTimesahre.org.

 

[lcml11]

Pacific Property Transfer responded to the BBB inquiry again. I am posting the BBB case with my original complaint, their first response, my response, and their second response:

Complaint ID: 98743577
Complaint Classification:

Complaint Description - Posted 12/26/2012 10:55:56 AM


On September 25th, 2012 I won an auction for an RCI points timeshare at Vacation Village in Kissimmee, Florida. The total cost to me was $400.25 for the winning bid, closing costs, and maintenance fees. I was told the deed would be processed to be transferred into my name. Followed was months of errors and lies by Pacific. There were several delays that I was told was caused by clerical mistakes, employees necessary to the transaction being off of work, and misfiled information at the county level. Then in November I was told that the deed was finally processed and sent to my timeshare resort for processing. A few weeks go by and the resort tells me Pacific sent a check made out to the wrong company and was returned. Weeks go by and Pacific tells me they resent the deed with the correct check. A few weeks go by and I am told by the resort that the deed is in someone else’s name The resort says there is nothing they can do about this as they have to honor the name on the deed as the rightful owner. Again two weeks of calling Pacific and told they'd call back, ignored voice messages, unanswered emails. I do have a signed electronic contract that shows exactly what I purchased. I expect them to honor the contract. I have a deed that they sent to me that shows my name on it but apparently the other persons deed was filed first so that is the deed that will be honored. I had enough and warned them I'd be filing complaints but was again ignored.

Complaint Summary


I was scammed for my money and then ignored by Pacific Property Transfer after I won an auction for a timeshare as it was sold to another person.

Resolution Sought

A property of at least an equal points value or reimbursement.

Additional Information
Date Problem First Occurred:
9/25/2012
Product or Service:
Model Name or Number:
Date Purchased:
Order Number:
Amount In Dispute: $400.25


Company's Response
Company's Initial Response - Posted 01/11/2013
Absolutely, the deed is in process of being corrected with the county. Please keep in mind that the bid was not won through our company, they simply chose to use our company for the processing and PT made errors in recording. We apologize for the mistake and are in process of fixing the error.
Initial Response Summary
Absolutely, the deed is in process of being corrected with the county.



Consumer's Rebuttal
Consumer's Rebuttal - Posted 01/14/2013
Two things, first, I did not choose Pacific Property Transfer to handle the closing. The seller on eBay SellTimeShare.org and Pacific Property Transfer are the same company. I had to use them as part of the deal. Second, I am doubting this is accurate as I have already spoken to Osceola County, Florida where the deed was recorded and it is recorded in another party's name. I believe this property was sold to two people and the other person (Simon J. Angelini)just got lucky and had the deed recorded in his name first. That said, if Pacific Property Transfer hadn't made mistakes and dragged their feet the deed would have been recorded in my name. Unless Pacific Property Transfer can get Simon J. Angelini to give me the property back, I don't see how they can get the deed recorded in my name. I STILL have not heard a peep from Pacific Property Transfer in all this time now. I have no idea what's going on. I will wait for the results of this action and if it cannot be fixed I will file a claim against them in court and will include airfare, hotel, money they took from me, lost work, court costs, and punitive damages.



Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 01/17/2013
Again, we apologize for the error in recording, but the error will be fixed before the end of January. This client did not choose to use Pacific Transfer, SellTimeshare.org uses our services. We are not the same company, Pacific Transfers is simply the title transfer agency used by SellTimesahre.org.

The heading of Company's Final Response does not sound real promising. It sounds like the BBB has written the complaint off. Wish you well in resolving it.

 

[Dorian]

The heading of Company's Final Response does not sound real promising. It sounds like the BBB has written the complaint off. Wish you well in resolving it.

Yeah, I considered that too. I will just open another case and begin legal action if it hasn't been resolved by their promised timeframe.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Small Claims Courts are great but do have limitations.

For example, their jurisdiction is limited to City or County where Defendant resides or has a place of business and generally they can only award monetary damages around $3K-$10K

So, if you are in WI and seller, et. al. is located in Florida you will have to go to City/County there where defendant resides/does business. These costs are not compensable.

Suggest you check State Judicial web site to see how Small Claims Court there works.

It might be easier to contact county lawyer referral service for a free or low cost consultation with real estate attorney.

He will probably advise you hubris, lousy service, "honest" mistakes, etc. are not actionable. If filed where you live in District or Supreme Court will tell you up front will be a couple thousand.

If you go out to Florida and file there Defendant will probably retain an attorney and bury you in legal stuff like motions, delays, depositions, interrogators, etc. forcing you to retain a Florida attorney, etc.


I am not an attorney, but what might be called a jail house lawyer whose experience came from renting 12 condos and dealing with good tenants gone bad. Even when you win collecting is a whole new ball game. Paying an attorney $200+ an hour gets one a fancy "Transcript of Judgment" and a nice tax loss.

While none of us like to get ripped, sometimes after one has given olde college try better to move on and use bad experience to avoid problems in future. When I first started renting my lease was about 4 pages long and when I retired from clogged toilets , lock outs, etc. to enjoying my TSs it had grown to almost 12 pages.

 

[Dorian]

Small Claims Courts are great but do have limitations.

For example, their jurisdiction is limited to City or County where Defendant resides or has a place of business and generally they can only award monetary damages around $3K-$10K

So, if you are in WI and seller, et. al. is located in Florida you will have to go to City/County there where defendant resides/does business. These costs are not compensable.

They are in Torrance, CA and this works for me as I travel there for business fairly regularly. I will just file there and appear when necessary. Thanks!

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Gotta love that Pacific Property Transfer has a "No Rating" with the BBB even though they have an insanely large amount of complaints.

For those that do not realize this businesses are enticed by the BBB to pay a membership fee which they promise will result in improved ratings, or obviously in this case a "No Rating" with a nice label that reads "BBB ACCREDITED BUSINESS". The BBB sold it's soul for revenue a few years ago and has become an accomplice to bad business practices where all companies have to do is pay a fee for a better rating. Despicable.

At least the complaints are there for all to see but it makes you wonder what their next step might be to raise more revenue.

 

[Dorian]

Update

Well, Pacific FINALLY contacted me today by email with an apology stating that due to problems with the seller of the property that I was NOT going to be getting my property. They said that I would be fully refunded after I sign off on the deed that was put in my name and I get it back to them. I do believe that in spite of all the errors and lies I had to deal with, that it was the original seller who sold the property to another person after I won the auction. That still doesn't excuse the behavior of Pacific however. If they'd have been professional when they found out what happened and just told me what occurred we'd have never had a problem. The question now is...if I sign off on the deed and get it back to them, are they really going to refund me? They may just have to get me off the deed and then just quit communicating with me again. I have to ponder this for a day or so.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Well, Pacific FINALLY contacted me today by email with an apology stating that due to problems with the seller of the property that I was NOT going to be getting my property. They said that I would be fully refunded after I sign off on the deed that was put in my name and I get it back to them. I do believe that in spite of all the errors and lies I had to deal with, that it was the original seller who sold the property to another person after I won the auction. That still doesn't excuse the behavior of Pacific however. If they'd have been professional when they found out what happened and just told me what occurred we'd have never had a problem. The question now is...if I sign off on the deed and get it back to them, are they really going to refund me? They may just have to get me off the deed and then just quit communicating with me again. I have to ponder this for a day or so.

The ball is now in your court. Tell them you want a full refund within "X" amount of days, and you'll return the deed upon receipt.



.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Well, Pacific FINALLY contacted me today by email with an apology stating that due to problems with the seller of the property that I was NOT going to be getting my property. They said that I would be fully refunded after I sign off on the deed that was put in my name and I get it back to them. I do believe that in spite of all the errors and lies I had to deal with, that it was the original seller who sold the property to another person after I won the auction. That still doesn't excuse the behavior of Pacific however. If they'd have been professional when they found out what happened and just told me what occurred we'd have never had a problem. The question now is...if I sign off on the deed and get it back to them, are they really going to refund me? They may just have to get me off the deed and then just quit communicating with me again. I have to ponder this for a day or so.

I think they will refund your money. They have an ongoing business. Their reported reputation in worse cases has been exactly what you have gone through but I don't think I have seen someone claim that their situation was never eventually resolved.

 

[lcml11]

Well, Pacific FINALLY contacted me today by email with an apology stating that due to problems with the seller of the property that I was NOT going to be getting my property. They said that I would be fully refunded after I sign off on the deed that was put in my name and I get it back to them. I do believe that in spite of all the errors and lies I had to deal with, that it was the original seller who sold the property to another person after I won the auction. That still doesn't excuse the behavior of Pacific however. If they'd have been professional when they found out what happened and just told me what occurred we'd have never had a problem. The question now is...if I sign off on the deed and get it back to them, are they really going to refund me? They may just have to get me off the deed and then just quit communicating with me again. I have to ponder this for a day or so.

If it were me I would do the important part first and deal with the less important stuff second. Get your name off that deed. Hopefully, they will do what they say and send your money back like they said after that is done.

 

[csxjohn]

If it were me I would do the important part first and deal with the less important stuff second. Get your name off that deed. Hopefully, they will do what they say and send your money back like they said after that is done.

I totally agree, from the beginning the main problem was having a deed recorded in your name that the resort didn't recognize at this time. Sign the deed to them and then deal with the refund.

 

[Dorian]

Pacific

Yes, I intend to sign the release and expect that they will refund me.

 

[Dorian]

Final Update:

I received a check in the mail (and it cleared) from Pacific Property Transfer for the $400.25 that was owed to me. I have been fully refunded but will never use them again and will warn others to follow suit.

Thanks all for your support and advice in this matter!

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Nice persistence.

My argument in the past has been that if you like super cheap timeshares you have to deal with the negatives. My attitude is slowly changing, which is easy to do when you hit one that is time consuming. My time is worth money. There are better sellers on ebay where their auctions end a bit higher but you have a much lower chance of critical errors and a time consuming communication process.

My ebay seller list is narrowing.