On Megarenters - and why hasn't Worldmark fixed this...

[ronparise]

The points deposit feature in Club Wyndham eliminating stripping points from future years applies to all CW owners.

The auto-upgrade feature severely restricting the cancel/rebook scheme applies to all VIP owners who could take advantage of this.

What was/is the new rule created in Club Wyndham that was only enforced against certain megarenters?

The "give us back all your points and we wont sue you" rule

what Ive been saying here is that wyndham identified a number of us that they wanted out and they forced us out
The new rules that you mention make it difficult for megarenter wanna bees to get started

 

[clifffaith]

My question is why would anyone even want to stay at WorldMark in Kihei? It's not oceanfront. There are many nicer resorts in Kihei, beach and oceanfront. I don't get it.

I read this entire thread and don't really get WHO is doing this? Are you saying Wyndham owners are taking WorldMark inventory at 13 months because they bought Wyndham with the 13 month window for Hawaii?

I've said more than once that I'd stay home before booking Kihei. But we own Diamond too and Kaanapali has spoiled me. Now that I'm mobility impaired ocean view is all the more important. I'd be willing to go with no wait list until 12 months out if that would put a kink in the mega renters plans.

 

[chemteach]

If the waitlist is moved to 12 months, people can still game the system by making 10 day reservations, canceling, rebooking the first 7 days on a different account, and creating a new reservation using the last 3 days of the first reservation to start a new 10 day reservation. The only way to stop the loopholes is to only allow 7 day reservations at 13 months out, with checkins only Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If checkins are allowed any day of the week, you can still work the system. Alternatively, Worldmark could start charging for cancellations after 10 or so cancellations have been made on an account. But that would be really bad for all the owners.

 

[am1]

Which I think is fine. The cancel/rebook was a strategy used widely by a lot of VIP members who where just regular 500,000-2 million points type owners who might have rented out a couple of reservations a year or not, but all together they added to millions and millions of points of the inventory manipulation. It doesn't matter if you were renting for profit or using it yourself. With Wyndam the discount and upgrade window was never meant for vip's to get a 3 br for half the points of a studio in prime time by holding and cancelling multiple units. It was meant to give vip's a discount on inventory that wasn't popular enough to get booked at full points.

Suggest that to the Wyndham sales people who sold the points that way.

 

[bizaro86]

If the waitlist is moved to 12 months, people can still game the system by making 10 day reservations, canceling, rebooking the first 7 days on a different account, and creating a new reservation using the last 3 days of the first reservation to start a new 10 day reservation. The only way to stop the loopholes is to only allow 7 day reservations at 13 months out, with checkins only Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If checkins are allowed any day of the week, you can still work the system. Alternatively, Worldmark could start charging for cancellations after 10 or so cancellations have been made on an account. But that would be really bad for all the owners.

Not if reservations don't come right back when cancelled, which is what they did with wyndham.

 

[am1]

Not if reservations don't come right back when cancelled, which is what they did with wyndham.

I would have enjoyed the challenge.

 

[geist1223]

Wyndham Owners can not reserve WMTC properties until the time limits of Wyndham Pass apply, which is I believe is 9 months.

 

[ronparise]

If the waitlist is moved to 12 months, people can still game the system by making 10 day reservations, canceling, rebooking the first 7 days on a different account, and creating a new reservation using the last 3 days of the first reservation to start a new 10 day reservation. The only way to stop the loopholes is to only allow 7 day reservations at 13 months out, with checkins only Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If checkins are allowed any day of the week, you can still work the system. Alternatively, Worldmark could start charging for cancellations after 10 or so cancellations have been made on an account. But that would be really bad for all the owners.

I agree that 7 day reservations and a weekend only check in policy would go a long way to leveling the playing field and giving everyone an equal shot at every reservation

Club Wyndham used to work a lot like that and they recently changed their rules to allow any day check in

I think the movement is to more flexibility, not less

And if I’m right the goal is no longer just a level playing field. I think the goal is to drive out the megarenters all together

I didn’t just pull this idea out of the air. I think I was the only guy that had large ownerships in both systems. I really wasn’t in the megarenter category with only 500000 credits but I was still growing. they forced me out of both clubs. I think my experience can be looked at as a preview of coming attractions.

 

[am1]

My 35000 worldmark account was boot strapped. Never made a WM reservation in my 6 years of ownership.

 

[chemteach]

I'm quoting Bizaro86 from the wmowners forum. This idea could work:
"I think a combination of two changes would suffice. Randomize the time until cancelled reservations come back.

Make the waitlist of no effect until 12 months, but let owners submit waitlists between 12-13 months, and then put the list in random order.


That would kill cancel and re-book, because people wouldn't know when to look for their bookings to pop back up, and couldn't be sure they were first on the waitlist."

This should stop megarenters and people managing other people's accounts. It doesn't change the flexibity of the system for owners - they can still waitlist, they can still make the reservations they currently are allowed to make. People could still make long reservations. The "black hole of cancelled reservations" helps, but I think people who have working the reservation system as a full time job would figure something out... They could check online continually for their cancelled reservations to show back up, and grab them as they reappear. It would be much more work than is currently needed, but still possible. It would get rid of "reserve 10 days, cancel the last three, rebook a new 10 day reservation."

The rebooking issue is what irks me most. It's frustrating watching the units for the day(s) just past 13 months disappear throughout the day at 13 months.

 

[bizaro86]

My 35000 worldmark account was boot strapped. Never made a WM reservation in my 6 years of ownership.

What did you do with them? That's a decent sized account...

 

[am1]

What did you do with them? That's a decent sized account...

Transferred to another owner for cash.

 

[ecwinch]

Here is an interesting story that might provide some insight to what is happening.

A few weeks ago, I was doing some testing of waitlists. From the reservation calendar, I looked like someone was using the waitlist to walk a reservation forward at the Seattle Camlin 2BR Penthouse. There is only one unit of that type, so the manipulation was fairly easy to spot. So on Dec 17th I put in a waitlist request for that unit - check-in of Dec 17th for up to 14 days (max allowed).

Yesterday I got a match - offering me the 19th to the 31st (14 days). When I checked the on-line calendar, I saw that the 31st was the first available date in the calendar.

So today I called in and reserved a Dec 27.2019 check-in, for one week. Picking up just the last two nights of my waitlist match, and adding the remaining days from beyond the 13th booking window.

Isn't WM a great system!

 

[bizaro86]

Here is an interesting story that might provide some insight to what is happening.

A few weeks ago, I was doing some testing of waitlists. From the reservation calendar, I looked like someone was using the waitlist to walk a reservation forward at the Seattle Camlin 2BR Penthouse. There is only one unit of that type, so the manipulation was fairly easy to spot. So on Dec 17th I put in a waitlist request for that unit - check-in of Dec 16th for up to 14 days (max allowed).

Yesterday I got a match - offering me the 19th to the 31st (14 days). When I checked the on-line calendar, I saw that the 31st was the first available date in the calendar.

So today I called in and reserved a Dec 27.2019 check-in, for one week. Picking up just the last two nights of my waitlist match, and adding the remaining days from beyond the 13th booking window.

Isn't WM a great system!

Nice! That'll be a great stay.

 

[Marathoner]

Here is an interesting story that might provide some insight to what is happening.

A few weeks ago, I was doing some testing of waitlists. From the reservation calendar, I looked like someone was using the waitlist to walk a reservation forward at the Seattle Camlin 2BR Penthouse. There is only one unit of that type, so the manipulation was fairly easy to spot. So on Dec 17th I put in a waitlist request for that unit - check-in of Dec 17th for up to 14 days (max allowed).

Yesterday I got a match - offering me the 19th to the 31st (14 days). When I checked the on-line calendar, I saw that the 31st was the first available date in the calendar.

So today I called in and reserved a Dec 27.2019 check-in, for one week. Picking up just the last two nights of my waitlist match, and adding the remaining days from beyond the 13th booking window.

Isn't WM a great system!

To the original poster, this is looking like it's walking the reservation. I mention this because I could already deduce some of what was happening despite his continuing claims of wait list manipulation. Back to my post above, don't give up on the flexibility of Worldmark when it helps us all! Especially when the antagonist is the megarenter bogeyman!

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[ecwinch]

To the original poster, this is looking like it's walking the reservation. I mention this because I could already deduce some of what was happening despite his continuing claims of wait list manipulation. Back to my post above, don't give up on the flexibility of Worldmark when it helps us all! Especially when the antagonist is the megarenter bogeyman!

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That is not very well reasoned. The bogeyman is a mythical creature, with only anecdotal evidence of his existence.

Is that the same here? I dont think so.

 

[CO skier]

The "give us back all your points and we wont sue you" rule

Seems like more of an administrative policy than a rule. It is certainly not a published rule.

Either way, it would apply to very, very few owners.

 

[CO skier]

Here is an interesting story that might provide some insight to what is happening.

A few weeks ago, I was doing some testing of waitlists. From the reservation calendar, I looked like someone was using the waitlist to walk a reservation forward at the Seattle Camlin 2BR Penthouse. There is only one unit of that type, so the manipulation was fairly easy to spot. So on Dec 17th I put in a waitlist request for that unit - check-in of Dec 17th for up to 14 days (max allowed).

Yesterday I got a match - offering me the 19th to the 31st (14 days). When I checked the on-line calendar, I saw that the 31st was the first available date in the calendar.

So today I called in and reserved a Dec 27.2019 check-in, for one week. Picking up just the last two nights of my waitlist match, and adding the remaining days from beyond the 13th booking window.

Isn't WM a great system!

There is no question the waitlist needs some work. "All waitlist days offered must be reserved as a single reservation or combined as a grouped reservation and the resulting reservation may not be modified (including adding or changing guest names). Waitlist reservations may not extend beyond 13 months. "

This does not close every waitlist loophole, but it would rein-in your example of the possible abuses and some other abuses.

 

[chemteach]

Here is an interesting story that might provide some insight to what is happening.

A few weeks ago, I was doing some testing of waitlists. From the reservation calendar, I looked like someone was using the waitlist to walk a reservation forward at the Seattle Camlin 2BR Penthouse. There is only one unit of that type, so the manipulation was fairly easy to spot. So on Dec 17th I put in a waitlist request for that unit - check-in of Dec 17th for up to 14 days (max allowed).

Yesterday I got a match - offering me the 19th to the 31st (14 days). When I checked the on-line calendar, I saw that the 31st was the first available date in the calendar.

So today I called in and reserved a Dec 27.2019 check-in, for one week. Picking up just the last two nights of my waitlist match, and adding the remaining days from beyond the 13th booking window.

Isn't WM a great system!

This example shows there is a problem. There are many prime units that today show no availability until 12/31/19. On a side note - the person who thought they had the system figured out must have had an "Oh S**t" moment when the unit didn't come back to them for the dates they had expected. Nice for you!!

 

[Marathoner]

That is not very well reasoned. The bogeyman is a mythical creature, with only anecdotal evidence of his existence.

Is that the same here? I dont think so.

I don't like the megarenter effects either. However, their presence is a byproduct of a flexible and high value timeshare system. So I believe we should tolerate their existence.

You believe their existence is not tolerable and advocate for ways to reduce flexibility and value of the club to do so.

My point is that changing the club to get rid of megarenters will destroy large value to the owners of the club even if the changes have its intended affect.

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[chemteach]

For those who really like the system the way it is, why not post all your secrets for obtaining the prime reservation weeks so that the system at least has equity. Maybe if all owners knew how to do what megarenters do, and how to get around the megarenter's tactics, the system would at least have more equity. There could be a sticky on the Worldmark forum describing how to get prime reservations with the system the way it is now. (I realize this won't likely happen - I just think it would be the right thing to do for the timeshare community on TUG.)

 

[chemteach]

duplicate post...

 

[Marathoner]

For those who really like the system the way it is, why not post all your secrets for obtaining the prime reservation weeks so that the system at least has equity. Maybe if all owners knew how to do what megarenters do, and how to get around the megarenter's tactics, the system would at least have more equity. There could be a sticky on the Worldmark forum describing how to get prime reservations with the system the way it is now. (I realize this won't likely happen - I just think it would be the right thing to do for the timeshare community on TUG.)

The secret has already been explained several times.

Use the wait list at exactly 13 months to get the week you're looking for. This works. People cancel their weeks with relative frequency, even for prime dates.



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[am1]

For those who really like the system the way it is, why not post all your secrets for obtaining the prime reservation weeks so that the system at least has equity. Maybe if all owners knew how to do what megarenters do, and how to get around the megarenter's tactics, the system would at least have more equity. There could be a sticky on the Worldmark forum describing how to get prime reservations with the system the way it is now. (I realize this won't likely happen - I just think it would be the right thing to do for the timeshare community on TUG.)

And kill the business? Or owners can trial and error theories. Do some leg work instead of being spoon fed. For awhile one mega renter enjoyed revealing knowledge for everyone.

 

[chemteach]

And kill the business? Or owners can trial and error theories. Do some leg work instead of being spoon fed. For awhile one mega renter enjoyed revealing knowledge for everyone.

My point is that the Worldmark system should have equity for as many owners as possible. If it doesn't, the BoD should figure out a way to create equity. I have already figured out a few things that I've posted here. Others have been mentioned. I'm suggesting there could be a sticky that puts this in one place so that the playing field is leveled for everyone. Isn't that a big part of what TUG is about - trying to inform the public of timeshare industry's scams, ways to best use timeshare systems, etc.? A sticky where all the information that you can find by doing research would benefit the TUG community.