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New Wyndham timeshare owner within cancellation period - need some quick advice!

HitchHiker71

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All, just joined this forum a few minutes ago and am looking for some advice over this weekend. We were just vacationing in Myrtle Beach and ended up purchasing 126k annual points from Wyndham Destinations via one of their presentations, plus 174000 bonus points all effective 10/1/2018, plus two vacation weeks through RCI, and 45000 Wyndham rewards points good for three free days at any of their hotels/resorts.

We are still within the five day cancellation period and while my wife very much wanted to do the deal, I’m trying to determine if we should consider cancellation and then going a different route to accomplish the same thing. I’m not sure of the forum rules here so I don’t want to post pricing unless we are allowed to do so (anyone?), but am happy to share what we paid for this package if allowable.

Also happy to share any additional details that I can provide as well - so feel free to ask questions. Many thanks in advance for your help!

EDIT: we have full Wyndham VIP membership thrown in through 2020, along with permanent RCI membership, Club Wyndham Plus assignment, ARP for 66 resorts within the contracted resort network, etc.

We liked the concept of some of the VIP benefits but did not want to commit to the alleged 400k point barrier required to gain permanent VIP status right out of the gate.

Basically what I did not have time to determine is if it is possible to somehow obtain VIP via a resale purchase as opposed to a developer purchase. Of course the sales folks said not possible, but of course they would say that to get the sale. They also said that any benefits we earned as a result of a developer purchase would then also apply to a resale purchase, any truth to this? I’m very suspect of the entire sales process hence my questions.

What is a decent developer points purchase rate for Wyndham Vacation Ownership Club? They rate them on a per 1000 points basis on the contract from what we saw during negotiations. I did my best to listen to others nearby and it seemed as though no one was seeing anything under $145/1000 developer points.

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Jan M.

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Rescind. You won't regret it, ever!
 

HitchHiker71

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Rescind now. And yes you can include pricing its just against the rules in this section to list for sales.

Got it, basically the contract was at $145 per 1000 points or just under 20k all in.

If we don’t purchase developer based points, is there a way to obtain the VIP program benefits, or does that really not make much of a difference in reality?


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bnoble

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If we don’t purchase developer based points, is there a way to obtain the VIP program benefits, or does that really not make much of a difference in reality?
No, there isn't. They definitely have some value, but given the difference between resale and developer pricing, it's hard to justify them on a dollar-for-dollar basis.

Rescind, do your research. If you call them three to six months from now and tell them you are ready to sign again under exactly the terms you have right now, my guess is that they will fall all over themselves to write it up. And, you might decide that's what you want. But, you might decide resale is a better value for you instead.
 

HitchHiker71

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No, there isn't. They definitely have some value, but given the difference between resale and developer pricing, it's hard to justify them on a dollar-for-dollar basis.

Rescind, do your research. If you call them three to six months from now and tell them you are ready to sign again under exactly the terms you have right now, my guess is that they will fall all over themselves to write it up. And, you might decide that's what you want. But, you might decide resale is a better value for you instead.

Got it, I will probably follow the rescind instructions tomorrow after reading the links to the other similar threads just now.

So only developer points will gain certain VIP status levels basically, but what are the PIC references about? What does PIC refer to and how can this be leveraged for VIP levels?

Also, if we assume for a moment that developer points are required, what is a “good” or acceptable price for developer points? I saw reference to using the WCA telesales center as a preferable way to purchase developer points in one thread. Don’t ever use the local sales centers in other words. True?

Is the $145/1000 developer points in my current contract a bad price? If so, what is a good price for developer points in comparison for WCA?

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Jan M.

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Don’t ever use the local sales centers in other words. Tru

This is the phone number Richelle posted for Wyndham corporate telesales 800-786-6764. You can private message Richelle for the email address and the name of her person in corporate telesales. If you look in the New Directory thread you should be able to find a link Richelle posted for the new directory. If not ask her to send it to you. You can read through the details of PIC Plus and also VIP benefits.

Now about VIP. If you don't have at least some flexibility with your vacation schedule and can't book and travel within 60 days of the check in dates then the discounts for VIP and free upgrades won't likely be of benefit to you. If you will frequently need the larger 3 or 4 bedroom units you would likely have to book them 10-13 months out so again the VIP benefits won't be of much use to you. Same thing applies if you would frequently be wanting Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter or special event weeks particularly in the larger units. If you fit into these categories then you would be wasting your money and should just buy resale.

If you make a purchase you can PIC Plus 2 weeks. Make very sure you only go for PIC Plus. The only thing PIC Express is good for is getting VIP status for 5 years and you can't even use the points from them as Wyndham points.

You would need to get two weeks at a resort in RCI. Three bedrooms will get you the most PIC PLUS points towards VIP. You can find weeks that people are giving away or selling quite cheaply. Sometimes you might get them for little to nothing over the closing costs or the seller might even split the closing costs. You would at least want these weeks to be under contract before you signed your deal with Wyndham in my opinion. I know of people who have had great luck getting weeks cheaply through Sumday. Sumday sells on eBay but you can also look them up online to get a phone number to go through them directly. I know of a couple of people who have gotten weeks in three bedroom units at Camelback Resort in Scottsdale, AZ. The maintenance fees at this resort are pretty good too. You can contact the real estate office at Camelback and buy resale weeks directly through them. You might pay a little more but you will get better weeks which is never a bad thing if you want to get rid of them down the road. And I expect they would close faster too. Williamsburg Plantation is another resort that is accepted in PIC Plus and has larger units and good maintenance fees.

I don't know if you can buy deeded points not just Club Wyndham Access points through telesales but that is something I would ask. Many resorts that you might get Club Wyndham Select deeded points at have lower maintenance fees than CWA.

If they offer you a bigger deal, meaning more money, that will get you VIP gold instead of silver, I highly recommend going for it. You can usually get a deal that will come with enough bonus points to get you the next level VIP status for two years. At the end of that time if you saw the value in having that higher VIP level you could go back to telesales to make another purchase to make it permanent and maybe even get to try out the next higher level of VIP for two years with more bonus points.
 

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Also, if we assume for a moment that developer points are required, what is a “good” or acceptable price for developer points? I saw reference to using the WCA telesales center as a preferable way to purchase developer points in one thread. Don’t ever use the local sales centers in other words. True?
Is the $145/1000 developer points in my current contract a bad price? If so, what is a good price for developer points in comparison for WCA?
$145 per 1k points is low for buying from Wyndham whether it’s at a resort or telesales. I would say the lowest price you can currently get but someone might of made a better deal.
That doesn’t mean I’m endorsing that you buy from Wyndham instead of using PICs or buy resale.
Rescind until you decide what is right thing for YOU. If you do decide you want to buy from Wyndham I would go back to your salesperson if you liked them instead of telesales because they did give you an excellent deal on developer points.
 

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This is the phone number Richelle posted for Wyndham corporate telesales 800-786-6764. You can private message Richelle for the email address and the name of her person in corporate telesales. If you look in the New Directory thread you should be able to find a link Richelle posted for the new directory. If not ask her to send it to you. You can read through the details of PIC Plus and also VIP benefits.

Now about VIP. If you don't have at least some flexibility with your vacation schedule and can't book and travel within 60 days of the check in dates then the discounts for VIP and free upgrades won't likely be of benefit to you. If you will frequently need the larger 3 or 4 bedroom units you would likely have to book them 10-13 months out so again the VIP benefits won't be of much use to you. Same thing applies if you would frequently be wanting Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter or special event weeks particularly in the larger units. If you fit into these categories then you would be wasting your money and should just buy resale.

If you make a purchase you can PIC Plus 2 weeks. Make very sure you only go for PIC Plus. The only thing PIC Express is good for is getting VIP status for 5 years and you can't even use the points from them as Wyndham points.

You would need to get two weeks at a resort in RCI. Three bedrooms will get you the most PIC PLUS points towards VIP. You can find weeks that people are giving away or selling quite cheaply. Sometimes you might get them for little to nothing over the closing costs or the seller might even split the closing costs. You would at least want these weeks to be under contract before you signed your deal with Wyndham in my opinion. I know of people who have had great luck getting weeks cheaply through Sumday. Sumday sells on eBay but you can also look them up online to get a phone number to go through them directly. I know of a couple of people who have gotten weeks in three bedroom units at Camelback Resort in Scottsdale, AZ. The maintenance fees at this resort are pretty good too. You can contact the real estate office at Camelback and buy resale weeks directly through them. You might pay a little more but you will get better weeks which is never a bad thing if you want to get rid of them down the road. And I expect they would close faster too. Williamsburg Plantation is another resort that is accepted in PIC Plus and has larger units and good maintenance fees.

I don't know if you can buy deeded points not just Club Wyndham Access points through telesales but that is something I would ask. Many resorts that you might get Club Wyndham Select deeded points at have lower maintenance fees than CWA.

If they offer you a bigger deal, meaning more money, that will get you VIP gold instead of silver, I highly recommend going for it. You can usually get a deal that will come with enough bonus points to get you the next level VIP status for two years. At the end of that time if you saw the value in having that higher VIP level you could go back to telesales to make another purchase to make it permanent and maybe even get to try out the next higher level of VIP for two years with more bonus points.

Thanks so much for all of the advice! To answer your question, we anticipate that our approach to using timeshare will be a bit of both. We wanted the ARP capacity for our family vacations that will require larger units sometimes (at least a two bedroom lockout), to allow booking up to 13 months out in the 66 resorts under WCA currently, however when it’s just wifey and I traveling then we can and will often take advantage of the under 60 day discounted deals with free upgrades for ourselves. If the kids can come along last minute on those bookings then so much the better but sometimes we just want it for the two of us. Our kids are 23, 21 and 18 so we are nearing the empty nester stage where our vacations will be a mix of family events and/or weekend getaways for us as a couple primarily.

Interesting that you mention CWS MF’s being lower than WCA. Our MF’s under current contract are 5.76/1000 points. I saw a few WCS resales when searching around last night and noticed their MF’s were a bit lower as you said. Thanks for the tip!

What’s required for the VIP Gold level as opposed to Silver in so far as points go? VIP Silver starts at 400k points yes?


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126K developer plus 175K bonus doesn't get you VIP at all. You need 400k for Silver, 700k for Gold, a 1 million for platinum. Do you have that in writing?
 

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$145 per 1k points is low for buying from Wyndham whether it’s at a resort or telesales. I would say the lowest price you can currently get but someone might of made a better deal.
That doesn’t mean I’m endorsing that you buy from Wyndham instead of using PICs or buy resale.
Rescind until you decide what is right thing for YOU. If you do decide you want to buy from Wyndham I would go back to your salesperson if you liked them instead of telesales because they did give you an excellent deal on developer points.

Yes, honestly I didn’t find our sales guy to be all that bad. I mean I don’t like the entire sales approach and the overall practices used but I know enough about sales to feel out when I’m getting screwed vs not screwed. I hammered on these guys up to the director level for six hours on the day in question. I’ve got all of their cellphones for direct contact. I’ve got points freeze lock in pricing through 2020 as well. The sales guy said he hasn’t seen pricing this low since he started there six years ago, but again I feel like that’s a sales tactic and nothing more hence my skepticism. After about two hours of none of their usual tactics working, I actually charted out the design of their sales practices on a piece of paper in detail based upon my past experience in market based sales and my training - and after that they segmented us off from the larger crowd and started treating us differently.

My key concern here is to figure out whether I got screwed on the price/rate from WCA direct and it sounds like we did OK at least. Now I have to decide our path forward beyond that one criteria. Bigger picture my plan was to buy in to get VIP status through Sept 2020 to try it out and see how much we actually used the VIP benefits. If we made significant use of them then we would consider additional developer points based upon actual experience and usage. All other points I would source from resale. I even brought up several resale deals during the negotiations to show the huge price delta which helped to drive the developer pricing down, but they wouldn’t budge any lower than $145/1000 points.


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tschwa2

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It seems like Wyndham would be a good fit for you so the real question is will you move up to permanent VIP or not. If not then no need to by any retail points.

My question is can you afford what you just bought with no financing or paying it off within a year or so. If you are financing then you shouldn't be buying retail Wyndham points at this time. Either buy resale or wait until you can buy without financing.

If you can afford what you bought and want to test drive the VIP benefits, a less expensive way would be to rescind what you bought. Call and tell them you are still interested in Wyndham and want to try a Discovery package. You pay a flat fee of around $3000-$4000. You get points with VIP benefits that are good for 12, 18, or 24 months depending on the package. You have to attend at least one more sales meeting. At the end you have the option of using what you paid toward retail points purchase - which could include a PIC contract to get you to VIP faster and for less money or you can say thanks but no thanks. It is more expensive then just buying resale but it does allow you to test drive VIP for less than your current retail purchase and doesn't have any mandatory commitment beyond the 12, 18 or 24 month term.
 

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126K developer plus 175K bonus doesn't get you VIP at all. You need 400k for Silver, 700k for Gold, a 1 million for platinum. Do you have that in writing?

You are correct under normal circumstances, however this was one of the requirements I lobbied for during negotiations. The bonus points contract section has a clause that states and I quote: “Buyer will also be eligible for Club Wyndham Plus VIP status through Bonus Points End Date.” The end date is 9-30-2020.


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HitchHiker71

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It seems like Wyndham would be a good fit for you so the real question is will you move up to permanent VIP or not. If not then no need to by any retail points.

My question is can you afford what you just bought with no financing or paying it off within a year or so. If you are financing then you shouldn't be buying retail Wyndham points at this time. Either buy resale or wait until you can buy without financing.

If you can afford what you bought and want to test drive the VIP benefits, a less expensive way would be to rescind what you bought. Call and tell them you are still interested in Wyndham and want to try a Discovery package. You pay a flat fee of around $3000-$4000. You get points with VIP benefits that are good for 12, 18, or 24 months depending on the package. You have to attend at least one more sales meeting. At the end you have the option of using what you paid toward retail points purchase - which could include a PIC contract to get you to VIP faster and for less money or you can say thanks but no thanks. It is more expensive then just buying resale but it does allow you to test drive VIP for less than your current retail purchase and doesn't have any mandatory commitment beyond the 12, 18 or 24 month term.

We paid cash essentially so it’s not a financing issue for us. Well actually we put the entire balance on the Wyndham Rewards credit card with six months zero interest promotional period with a 20k line of credit just to earn the rewards points on the initial purchase - we also have the MFs auto-billing to this same card. We could pay it off tomorrow with zero issues so this was just a choice on our parts to help offset the MFs right out of the gate.

Interesting that you mention the Discovery package. We currently have a 9000 point Sampler pack through BG for this same reason. I asked about a similar deal from Wyndham and was not told about the Discovery package. Will have to look into this option now. Many thanks!


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HitchHiker71

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All, what’s the best resource to learn more about PIC? What does this acronym even stand for? I understand I can use PIC transactions from non-Wyndham timeshares acquisitions to transfer points and earn points that will actually apply toward VIP status? Any help you experts can provide on PIC or links you can post so that I can learn more would be most appreciated!


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Jan M.

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All, what’s the best resource to learn more about PIC? What does this acronym even stand for? I understand I can use PIC transactions from non-Wyndham timeshares acquisitions to transfer points and earn points that will actually apply toward VIP status? Any help you experts can provide on PIC or links you can post so that I can learn more would be most appreciated!


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This is from the new directory.

Personal Interval Choice (PIC) Plus Program
Personal Interval Choice (PIC) Plus provides you the opportunity to enroll qualified non-Wyndham timeshare weeks affiliated with RCI® and make them a part of the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program. You may enroll a maximum of 2 weeks in the PIC Plus program. More information about enrollment is available by visiting a Member Services representative at your nearest CLUB WYNDHAM resort. Once you enroll your non-Wyndham week in PIC Plus, your week will be allocated a point value based on the unit size. Please refer to the PIC Plus Allocations chart below. The point value of your enrolled week(s) counts toward CLUB WYNDHAM Plus VIP eligibility.

PIC Plus Allocations UNIT SIZE POINT VALUE/POINTS CREDITED TOWARD VIP
Studio 70,000
1 Bedroom 105,000
2 Bedroom 154,000
3 Bedroom or more 254,000

Each year you can choose how you would like to use your PIC Plus week(s):
• Vacation at your non-CLUB WYNDHAM “home” resort
• Exchange it with RCI • Exchange it for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points Important Information
• You must be current in both your assessment fees and your yearly maintenance fees in order to request an exchange.
• An $89 exchange fee is required to complete the PIC Plus exchange.
• You must call RCI at least 9 months prior to the scheduled start date of your week and make an exchange request. Once accepted RCI will send you a Deposit Acknowledgment card. You may also request RCI’s auto deposit option and sign the appropriate documents to get enrolled for annual renewal.
• Once you receive the Deposit Acknowledgment card from RCI, call your Vacation Planning Center at 800-251-8736 to complete the exchange. You will select whether you want to receive the points in the current Use Year or the following Use Year, and the appropriate amount of points will be deposited into your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus account. These points will expire at the end of the selected Use Year.
• Once points are deposited into your account, the number of points and benefits you have available for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Standard and Express Reservations, Worldwide External Exchange, PlusPartners, Charitable Gift and WYNDHAM Club Pass will be increased by the amount of points associated with your PIC Plus contract for the Use Year chosen.
• In order to maintain the accuracy of your account, your non-Wyndham weeks enrolled in PIC Plus will be subject to an annual verification process. If your week no longer meets the eligibility requirements for enrollment, it will be removed from the PIC Plus program.
• PIC Plus contracts are nontransferable.
Eligibility Requirements: Membership in the PIC Plus Program is available with a new vacation ownership purchase from Wyndham Vacation Resorts or to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members who pay the PIC Plus Membership Enrollment Fee. In order to be eligible, non-Wyndham week(s) must be: (1) affiliated with RCI and (2) not currently participating in a points-based program, including RCI Points. Members will be responsible for maintenance fees on their nonWyndham week(s).
 

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Eligibility Requirements: Membership in the PIC Plus Program is available with a new vacation ownership purchase from Wyndham Vacation Resorts or to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members who pay the PIC Plus Membership Enrollment Fee. In order to be eligible, non-Wyndham week(s) must be: (1) affiliated with RCI and (2) not currently participating in a points-based program, including RCI Points. Members will be responsible for maintenance fees on their nonWyndham week(s).

Thanks so much Jan! Exactly what I needed for PIC!

Regarding the eligibility requirements quoted above, I believe I am a Club Wyndham Plus member already as part of my current contract. How much is the PIC Plus membership enrollment fee? This option certainly seems cheaper than having to make another developer points purchase.

If for whatever reason I have to make a developer points purchase, I’m wondering since I have points freeze purchase protection under current contract, if I do end up having to purchase the minimum amount of 49k developer points to qualify for a PIC transfer, would I pay $145/1000 points? $7150 is certainly cheaper than the 10K I’m seeing elsewhere for that same 49k points.

Lastly, where are the best sites online to hunt for 3-bedroom PIC transfer eligible timeshares?


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Jan M.

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Thanks so much Jan! Exactly what I needed for PIC!

Regarding the eligibility requirements quoted above, I believe I am a Club Wyndham Plus member already as part of my current contract. How much is the PIC Plus membership enrollment fee? This option certainly seems cheaper than having to make another developer points purchase.

If for whatever reason I have to make a developer points purchase, I’m wondering since I have points freeze purchase protection under current contract, if I do end up having to purchase the minimum amount of 49k developer points to qualify for a PIC transfer, would I pay $145/1000 points? $7150 is certainly cheaper than the 10K I’m seeing elsewhere for that same 49k points.

Lastly, where are the best sites online to hunt for 3-bedroom PIC transfer eligible timeshares?


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PIC Plus or even PIC Express can only be done with a new developer purchase and you didn't get that written in as part of your deal. You will need to rescind this deal and start over.

I think Richelle posted in the PIC thread that the enrollment fee is either $89 or $98.

Good places to look are here on TUG both in the Bargain Deals under the Buying, Selling, Renting forum and the regular listings of what is for sale. Look on eBay. Contact both Sumday and the real estate office for the Camelback Resort. Remember that the weeks must be at a resort in RCI.
 

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Or, if you are looking at VIP Status on a long-term basis, keep what you have and just buy another developer purchase with PIC Plus, not PIC Express, as part of the deal. Follow what you want to do.
 

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Thanks so much Jan! Exactly what I needed for PIC!

Regarding the eligibility requirements quoted above, I believe I am a Club Wyndham Plus member already as part of my current contract. How much is the PIC Plus membership enrollment fee? This option certainly seems cheaper than having to make another developer points purchase.

If for whatever reason I have to make a developer points purchase, I’m wondering since I have points freeze purchase protection under current contract, if I do end up having to purchase the minimum amount of 49k developer points to qualify for a PIC transfer, would I pay $145/1000 points? $7150 is certainly cheaper than the 10K I’m seeing elsewhere for that same 49k points.

Lastly, where are the best sites online to hunt for 3-bedroom PIC transfer eligible timeshares?


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I have a 78K Myrtle Beach I was planning on giving away in January if that gives you any idea what the worth is. I probably could squeeze a few bucks but not worth the effort.

Once you have rescinded I would follow EBay and Tug Marketplace for about 3 months and buy then.
 

HitchHiker71

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Or, if you are looking at VIP Status on a long-term basis, keep what you have and just buy another developer purchase with PIC Plus, not PIC Express, as part of the deal. Follow what you want to do.

Thanks very much Avislo. After extensive conversations between DW and I yesterday, she is OK with either keeping the current contract or rescinding, however we collectively did agree that for most of our non-family planned vacations, we would make good use of the 60 day windows and last minute booking specials that come with VIP program benefits. Not a final decision but I have until tomorrow to rescind.

For a moment, let’s assume that VIP permanent benefits are important to us and that’s what we want here. As far as I can tell, the best way to get to 700k points is to leverage two PIC transactions for 508k total points, and then purchase 192k developer points all total. I don’t currently see any other way to obtain those 192k developer points without a direct purchase. True?

Specific to the PIC transaction, I am getting conflicting info on the requirement. Does each PIC transaction require a minimum 49k point purchase? So if I PIC two 3 bdrm fixed week RCI TS’s it would require 49k x 2 = 98k additional developer points? Why I’m asking is if this is actually the requirement and I were to keep our current contract of 126k points, then I’d end up with 732k points total using current assumptions which is 32k more points than we actually need to obtain VIP gold. Or could we keep the current contract and then simply purchase 66k more developer points under a single contract that would include both PIC transactions?

I have already reached out to my current sales guy and he is looking into this for me now as well, but certainly want to leverage the wisdom of some tuggers who have done this before!

I also have my sales guy looking into if I can leverage my current contract points freeze pricing at $145/1000 for a second PIC contract instead of having to pay the full 10K/49000 amount through telesales.


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Braindead

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You need to rescind if your going with PICs.
Unless you get everything confirmed in a signed email:
1. On the additional 66k points to enroll two PICs.
2. Price freeze.
3. Can PICs be bought as resales.
4. Get a deadline on the date you have make the additional 66k purchase with enrolling the PICs by. How long is this deal available

Wyndham could change the requirement of how many points have to be purchased to enroll PICs tomorrow.
You may not even hear back before your rescission deadline.
 

Jan M.

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HitchHiker71 please rescind this deal. You should wait until you have the weeks you want to PIC at least under contract. You aren't getting any special deal that won't be offered to you again. So many of us have made subsequent developer purchases to fix something that wasn't done correctly. I can clearly see that is where you are headed.

I think I can speak for pretty much everyone here on TUG. You won't ever be sorry if you rescind, get your PIC weeks purchased and then go back and make a deal. You may even by that time have decided that it is in your best interest to purchase a larger point package than the one you are looking at now.
 

harveyhaddixfan

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There’s always the buy resale and pay the fee (it was stated in another thread that it was $2395 or $2495, can’t remember) to PIC a week. It all depends on if you feel VIP benefits are worth it? I’m personally looking for a small annual contract to bridge what I can’t get in RCI already.
 
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