[ 2017 ] New Westin Flex

[lizap]

What is the current price to convert to Hyatt Pure Points?

Meant to say they've 'overestimated' how much current owners are willing to pay.
Has been reported over on the Hyatt subforum, the minimum buy-in is 700 points at $20 per point, roughly $14k. Quite a difference from the nominal cost Marriott offered legacy owners.. what you have is a mature product that ILG is trying to re-invent to make money off of. I don't see this a successful venture since I don't think they will be able to convince a significant number of owners to convert at this cost..

 

[lizap]

I hope they are as honest as you suggest here. My concern is they are just selling Flex Options in sold out resorts just to raise money. Kind of like airlines selling seats on sold out flights, knowing there will always be unexpected space. Then the Flex owners get to book at 8-12 out, and the non-owners with StarOptions get less and less chance. The traders eventually get squeezed out completely.

FOs will come from different inventory. I see this as more of a situation where FLEX owners may have trouble booking a particular resort for some time to come, since there will ONLY be FLEX inventory from newly built unit's, from those who buy into FLEX, and those poor souls that Westin is able to convince to pay ridiculous amounts to convert.. There have been reports that Marriott is considering a purchase of ILG. I almost wish this would happen since there's a leadership void at ILG.. maybe they could straighten this mess out.

 

[lizap]

What is the current price to convert to Hyatt Pure Points

Deleted

 

[cubigbird]

I’m wondering if we will see WSJ eventually also be included in this???

 

[cubigbird]

Interesting. I'm curious what the ski property would be. I thought westin riverfront was sold out, and there are no other ski resorts where they have the right to develop Westin branded timeshares, so they would have to negotiate with Marriott International to add anything new.

Maybe it'll just be a few weeks at riverfront...

There is empty land next door to the Westin Riverfront hotel — opposite side from where the villas are. I was told in a past meeting that it was eventually the goal to expand Riverfront Villas. I’m wondering if that could be it???

 

[bizaro86]

I’m wondering if we will see WSJ eventually also be included in this???

On one of the conference calls they mentioned that Nanea and WSJ were premium products and they didn't anticipate putting them in a flex structure.

 

[VacationForever]

Thanks to Vistana / II, more fractured offerings. A cheapo resale mandatory SVV is still the way to go...

 

[vacationtime1]

Fractured offerings, indeed. Just think, for Vistana's four Hawaii properties (WKORV, WKORVN, WPORV, and Nanea) we will have four different classifications with four different and often inconsistent sets of rules: VSE mandatory, VSE voluntary, HomeOptions, and the rumored Westin Flex.

I suppose if/when they build timeshares in the Sheraton Kauai (Poipu), we will have a fifth classification, probably Sheraton Flex.

 

[darius]

Fractured offerings, indeed. Just think, for Vistana's four Hawaii properties (WKORV, WKORVN, WPORV, and Nanea) we will have four different classifications with four different and often inconsistent sets of rules: VSE mandatory, VSE voluntary, HomeOptions, and the rumored Westin Flex.

I suppose if/when they build timeshares in the Sheraton Kauai (Poipu), we will have a fifth classification, probably Sheraton Flex.

Sales stated the Sheraton Kauai would get added to the original Flex offering. I agree, very fractured - and buy where you want to stay. They do have some wonderful resorts though!

 

[dioxide45]

I have been looking into this, and what pisses me off about it is, (as an owner at Nanea), I get to place my home reservations at Nanea at 8-12 months, now these 'flex' owners can reserve at any of the flex resorts at 8-12 months. we both get the same 8 month treatment. so this tells me that their points are more valuable than mine, but something ALSO tells me that MY maintenance fees will be higher. I am disappointed in Vistana in regards to this program. I will be doing an owners update later in 2018 when I stay at WKORV and will be drilling them hard on this one. (they REALLY don't like me when I go in with questions).. I feel like they are devaluing my deeded week and giving a lot more people access to my home resort at 12 months. so, play it safe and book early!

Your assumption is incorrect. Other flex owners won't be able to reserve in to Nanea at the 12-8 month mark. Only those that own in the Nanea flex product can reserve inventory in Nanea Flex during the preference period of 12-8 months. Owners in any of the separate flex products can only reserve inventory in that program 12-8 months out. So if I own in Westin Flex, I can only reserve inventory in Westin Flex 12-8 months out. I can't cross over and reserve Nanea Flex or Aventuras Flex at 12-8 months. I can only cross programs at the 8 month mark.

This is one area where Vistana was very sloppy. Their myriad of different flex programs is messy. Different flex programs in Hawaii, St John and Sheraton. They even have separate use plans in these programs. For Nanea they have Ocean Front use plan and Resort View use plan. They really needed a separate 1BR use plan due to the limited number of 1BR units at Nanea. Aventuras is unique and for legal purposes couldn't be combined with the others as all of the USA based flex programs are land trusts recorded in the US. Sheraton Flex is all recorded in Orange County Florida.

Vistana should have gone the way of Marriott and setup a single flex program. Dumped all their inventory in there and sold a single product with access to all the resorts.

 

[vacationtime1]

Sales stated the Sheraton Kauai would get added to the original Flex offering. I agree, very fractured - and buy where you want to stay. They do have some wonderful resorts though!

So if all of our information is correct, Nanea will be a stand-alone resort (the only one with HomeOptions), Sheraton Kauai will be packaged with some older Atlantic coast resorts and a ski resort as Sheraton Flex, and the "legacy" Hawaii properties (WKORV, WKORVN, and WPORV) will be in the Westin Flex group. Makes no sense at all.

 

[dioxide45]

So if all of our information is correct, Nanea will be a stand-alone resort (the only one with HomeOptions), Sheraton Kauai will be packaged with some older Atlantic coast resorts and a ski resort as Sheraton Flex, and the "legacy" Hawaii properties (WKORV, WKORVN, and WPORV) will be in the Westin Flex group. Makes no sense at all.

Don't some phases at WSJ also have Home Options? If so, they are also stand-alone resorts with home options.

 

[tschwa2]

Don't some phases at WSJ also have Home Options? If so, they are also stand-alone resorts with home options.

I think they are just float weeks.

 

[dioxide45]

I recall Coral Vista being HomeOptions? It is this thread that makes me think that.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Is this correct? (based on speculative discussion)
An WMH Owner will be able to convert to Westin Flex Points (ie. using their VOI with new money), and then reserve WKORV/N-WPORV during the HomeResort period (8-12 months) - thus competing with deeded owners. How would that work? Wouldn't that be equivalent to selling more than they own? Or, can they only come in at the 8-month mark?

As to WSJ - both Coral Vista and Sunset Bay phases use HomeOptions which are only different from StarOptions during the HomeResort period.

The Sheraton Flex system did help alleviate an inherent problem with the established VSE system for low value/season TS weeks due to MFs being equal for low-season and high-season weeks (leading to delinquent MFs for low-value owners that the HOA needs to pick up...). A flawed system, but at least offering more vacation flexibility - spreads the pain. WSJ-CV and WSJ-SB phases did the same in similar manner (that WSJ-VGV suffers from). IMO

 

[DeniseM]

Is this correct? (based on speculative discussion)
An WMH Owner will be able to convert to Westin Flex Points (ie. using their VOI with new money), and then reserve WKORV/N-WPORV during the HomeResort period (8-12 months) - thus competing with deeded owners.

Dave - Flexoption owners won't be competing with deeded week owners. The deeded weeks wil be in one pool, and the flexoption weeks will be in another pool. The flexoption pool will consist of inventory that deeded week owners have converted to flexoptions and inventory that VSE buys or forecloses on, and then sells as Westin flexoptions.

It sounds crazy that Hawaii owners will be willing to convert to flex options, but as I wrote above, I know an owner who converted multiple ocean front Maui deeds to Sheraton Flex. I am afraid that some vulnerable owners will fall for the sales pitch.

 

[Helios]

There have been reports that Marriott is considering a purchase of ILG. I almost wish this would happen...

I totally agree, things are getting too messy.

 

[Helios]

On one of the conference calls they mentioned that Nanea and WSJ were premium products and they didn't anticipate putting them in a flex structure.

So, they don’t consider the other Maui resorts premium?

 

[bizaro86]

So, they don’t consider the other Maui resorts premium?

The question was about Nanea and the new phase at WSJ specifically, so I wouldn't read that into it.

Also, I get the sense they like the flexibility if selling options, and it's too late to deed WKORV and WKORVN as home options.

 

[Helios]

The question was about Nanea and the new phase at WSJ specifically, so I wouldn't read that into it.

Also, I get the sense they like the flexibility if selling options, and it's too late to deed WKORV and WKORVN as home options.

It really comes down to them making money, again, for something they already sold.

What I don’t get is why they would exclude OF as it was stated above. They need to acquire inventory anyway, so way not entice people with OF units also...

 

[DeniseM]

Also, I get the sense they like the flexibility if selling options, and it's too late to deed WKORV and WKORVN as home options.

Yes and no - they can't arbitrarily convert all the deeded weeks to Westin Flex options, because that is not what owners bought.

But they absolutely can try to lure owners into choosing to convert their deeded weeks into flex options. I know someone who has already done it.

 

[lizap]

Dave - Flexoption owners won't be competing with deeded week owners. The deeded weeks wil be in one pool, and the flexoption weeks will be in another pool. The flexoption pool will consist of inventory that deeded week owners have converted to flexoptions and inventory that VSE buys or forecloses on, and then sells as Westin flexoptions.

It sounds crazy that Hawaii owners will be willing to convert to flex options, but as I wrote above, I know an owner who converted multiple ocean front Maui deeds to Sheraton Flex. I am afraid that some vulnerable owners will fall for the sales pitch.

Denise, I agree-there will be some who fall
for this. But I think it will be quite some time before it affects the inventory that people use SOs to reserve.

 

[DeniseM]

We probably won't see an immediate impact, but because Vistana can also acquire inventory by buying it on the resale market and foreclosures, it will slowly take inventory out of the deeded weeks side, and put it on the flex options side.

Also - I don't know what the rules are for Vistana to "confiscate" unreserved flexoption inventory for their own use - I'm sure the terms are liberal and benefit Vistana.

 

[bizaro86]

It really comes down to them making money, again, for something they already sold.

What I don’t get is why they would exclude OF as it was stated above. They need to acquire inventory anyway, so way not entice people with OF units also...

They probably resell the OF weeks they acquire at such high prices that selling 176k westin flex options would be a big downgrade for them.

If you want to trade maui OF for Westin Flex they will take it, but if you have Westin Flex there won't be any maui oceanfront deeds in the trust to book at 12 months.

 

[cubigbird]

It sounds like it will slowly over time become harder to book weeks with deeded weeks because they will migrate over to Flex and deeded week inventory will decline. I can see that being and angle for sales. “Don’t like availability, here buy points.”