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Flex is a deeded interest in a real estate trust. You don't own a week and don't have any home resort priority. As for the loss of resale value, it is because Flex is voluntary VSN. Meaning the StarOptions don't transfer on resale, so they are not as desirable to own. That may change if the weeks in the trust pool get better and booking in trust is easier. The problem is if you own a resale Westin Flex, you can't book Sheraton properties with points. If you own Sheraton Flex resale, you can't book Westin properties with StarOptions.
Really appreciating these comments. If anyone has additional points of view on why...or why not... sell/convert my yearly OV WKORV to flex; it would be helpful.
You would be giving up your WKORV-OV week (which has resale value) plus cash (which has immediate value) for something with no resale value. What's that -- $25 -35K?
What do you get in return? The chance to reserve whatever properties are in the trust at the twelve month mark (rather than at eight months, which you can already do with your WKORV StarOptions). How do you know that Kierland or Mission Hills will be available at the eight month mark (do not rely on the salesman's representation)?
If you want to reserve Kierland during platinum season, buy a platinum Kierland week for $14-16K (which will be worth about that much should you decide to sell it).
Flex owners only have home resort priority for the deeds that are in the trust, not everything at a given resort. And I think the trust is mostly off season weeks.
You would be giving up your WKORV-OV week (which has resale value) plus cash (which has immediate value) for something with no resale value. What's that -- $25 -35K?
What do you get in return? The chance to reserve whatever properties are in the trust at the twelve month mark (rather than at eight months, which you can already do with your WKORV StarOptions). How do you know that Kierland or Mission Hills will be available at the eight month mark (do not rely on the salesman's representation)?
If you want to reserve Kierland during platinum season, buy a platinum Kierland week for $14-16K (which will be worth about that much should you decide to sell it).
I think the most impactful thing you have said is to spend the same amount of $ as the additional cash we would have to spend for the conversion and just buy a platinum week at Kierland! I am assuming this would be on the resale market as it has been my understanding that they have been 'sold out' for some time.
So does anyone know this...once reservations are made (lets say WKORV Ocean View) who is going to get priority on 'location of lockoff'...a 3 star deeded OWNER...or a 3 star FLEX? This is one of the points that keeps coming into our discussions....
I think we were wondering more if 'owner' had more leverage than 'flex' if reservation timing was same. Also, we were pitched that if we upgraded to 4star then preference would occur.
Can anyone explain what the real motivation is for creating the Flex program? Seems to me that it ultimately creates more owners with access to the premier properties (Hawaii)?
Can anyone explain what the real motivation is for creating the Flex program? Seems to me that it ultimately creates more owners with access to the premier properties (Hawaii)?
It seems to be an easier product to sell when all you were left with was low/shoulder season weeks with perhaps a few high season. Selling more weeks does the same thing as you are describing. More owners competing against each other for prime reservations, especially in Hawaii where the entire season is platinum and there are only perhaps about a dozen high season weeks that most people really want.
Can anyone explain what the real motivation is for creating the Flex program? Seems to me that it ultimately creates more owners with access to the premier properties (Hawaii)?
They can tell people who are buying a box of mostly low season weeks that they can (theoretically) book high season weeks/Hawaii. It makes it way easier to sell something nobody wants.
I think we were wondering more if 'owner' had more leverage than 'flex' if reservation timing was same. Also, we were pitched that if we upgraded to 4star then preference would occur.
If it were true, a 5* owner could make a reservation months after an ordinary owner and receive the better view. We know that does not happen; view priority is set by timestamp (reservation number).
Stop trusting your salesperson (or demand that such promises be put into writing because you are relying on them in making this purchase; see how fast they back off).
I have always made my reservations exactly at window opening - even before online reservations. I have always had excellent locations. Small statistic overall, but appears that Timestamp rules. YMMV
They can tell people who are buying a box of mostly low season weeks that they can (theoretically) book high season weeks/Hawaii. It makes it way easier to sell something nobody wants.
I think we need to clarify a point made here. The Hawaii weeks that are in the trust are all high season weeks. There are no low season weeks in Hawaii. Also the Westin Deset Willow weeks are comprised of inventory of new buildings where deeds were never initially sold. These represent 4 properties in the trust. I am not aware of the make up of the other properties but Vistana needed to ensure that all seasons were represented, so there are floating weeks in every period. In terms of Kierland, the inventory is very small, and likely made up of the last association sale.
In owning this product you have home resort priority (12 month reservation window) at all 6 resorts. So while not as good as StarOptions on resale, still there are 6 resorts in this mini network.
I am considering a purchase. For $10K, and two voluntary eoy deeds, I get 100,000 annual home options, use an explorer towards the purchase, get a bunch of SPG points, and retro a platinum plus 3 bed in St John.
There are no low season weeks in Hawaii. Also the Westin Deset Willow weeks are comprised of inventory of new buildings where deeds were never initially sold. These represent 4 properties in the trust.
Westin Flex as it was presented to us... includes both Kaanapali's, Kierland, Desert Willow, Kauai, Mission Hills and Riverfront. The one question we keep asking that does has an evasive answer is that despite being able to make a reservation at all of the properties now at 12-8 months out...what will be availability....
But...if we would consider purchasing more 'options' that would move us to 4 star then....
All seems too squishy. Considering what I already own (all Hawaii) I most like Robert's suggestion of spending the same amount of $ and just buying a Premium Plus at Kierland.
Also I think people are forgetting the higher yearly maintenance fees associated with the trust products vs. the deeded weeks people already own. We went to the presentation in both Hawaii and Mexico. Both of those trust products were presented to us and they both had higher yearly fees for virtually the same amount of options that we already own.
The fees in the Westin Flex will be lower than Hawaii because they are averaged down by the weight of the other properties in the trust outside of Hawaii. This is the vase because the fees are lower at the non Hawaii properties.
I think we need to clarify a point made here. The Hawaii weeks that are in the trust are all high season weeks. There are no low season weeks in Hawaii. Also the Westin Deset Willow weeks are comprised of inventory of new buildings where deeds were never initially sold. These represent 4 properties in the trust. I am not aware of the make up of the other properties but Vistana needed to ensure that all seasons were represented, so there are floating weeks in every period. In terms of Kierland, the inventory is very small, and likely made up of the last association sale.
In owning this product you have home resort priority (12 month reservation window) at all 6 resorts. So while not as good as StarOptions on resale, still there are 6 resorts in this mini network.
I am considering a purchase. For $10K, and two voluntary eoy deeds, I get 100,000 annual home options, use an explorer towards the purchase, get a bunch of SPG points, and retro a platinum plus 3 bed in St John.
Need to clarify...when seeking a reservation...available units are determined with the added filter that only flex units are available for flex owners and deeded units to deeded owners?
Need to clarify...when seeking a reservation...available units are determined with the added filter that only flex units are available for flex owners and deeded units to deeded owners?
In Marriott-land, they "exchange" units between the Destination Club and its Exchange Club. This is all done behind an opaque curtain and we don't get to know what is actually exchanged for what. But for eight years, it has worked fairly smoothly and weeks owners have not felt shortchanged. I don't know whether Vistana plans something similar for Flex.
I think we need to clarify a point made here. The Hawaii weeks that are in the trust are all high season weeks. There are no low season weeks in Hawaii.
True, but not all Hawaii high season weeks are created equal. While all weeks are "high season", April-May and September to Mid-December in Hawaii have less demand than summer and January-March. That's why when Marriott Vacation Club created their trust point schedule they set up a two-tier points structure for Hawaii vs the old single Platinum season used in their old Weeks system. The interesting thing to know about Westin Flex would be how many of those "high season" Hawaii weeks are in the true high season in summer and winter?
True, but not all Hawaii high season weeks are created equal. While all weeks are "high season", April-May and September to Mid-December in Hawaii have less demand than summer and January-March. That's why when Marriott Vacation Club created their trust point schedule they set up a two-tier points structure for Hawaii vs the old single Platinum season used in their old Weeks system. The interesting thing to know about Westin Flex would be how many of those "high season" Hawaii weeks are in the true high season in summer and winter?
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