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"New" Westin Flex - Includes WPORV, WKORV, WKORVN

Henry M.

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I own at WKORV and WKORVN and haven’t received any information about this.
 

controller1

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I may have not received this email because my WKORVN weeks are OF and WKORVN and WKORV OF are not part of the Flex program. Therefore, if an OF owner traded in for Flex, it would be very difficult to get an OF villa during anything other than low season since reservations could not be made in the 12-8 month window.
 

Sicnarf

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Just like Sheraton Flex, Westin Flex is a pure point system for select number of properties. I "upgraded" a bunch of my Sheraton Vistana units to flex which allowed me 9-12 booking to several beach and ski locations.
 

Denise L

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I didn't receive the email either and we own at WKORV. Whew. It was hard to read, looks like spam, but is not. This whole program sounds terrible. I like the original days when all resorts were mandatory and MFs were $1200.
 

Ken555

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I like the original days when all resorts were mandatory and MFs were $1200.

If only those days ever existed...


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vacationtime1

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Vistana/Sheraton/Westin has brought us mandatory resorts, voluntary resorts, HomeOptions, StarOptions, FlexOptions, Adventuras, and a Florida Club. It is a company with no long-term planning. Their internal confusion is what has led to all of this category confusion.

The inventory will be completely fragmented, but each of the above categories is a separate inventory pool with separate (and proportionate) ownership. No one's chances of getting a specific week is adversely affected, except the numbers may change from 5,100 owners wanting the same 100 units to 510 owners wanting the same 10 units (the owners/units ratio remaining 51:1).

If I didn't like some of these resorts a lot, I would sell. But I do.
 

DannyTS

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The inventory will be completely fragmented, but each of the above categories is a separate inventory pool with separate (and proportionate) ownership. No one's chances of getting a specific week is adversely affected, except the numbers may change from 5,100 owners wanting the same 100 units to 510 owners wanting the same 10 units (the owners/units ratio remaining 51:1).

The more such products the more chances the inventory is not handled properly. Not necessarily intentionally but because we are all humans and mistakes do occur. The people programming have to deal with units in different seasons, sizes, views, phases and probably others. We know that Vistana has the ability to allocate the weeks as it pleases: it may give one product more availability in a particular week and it leaves another product with more weeks in other times of the same season. The issue at Lagunamar where in the last 3-4 years regular platinum plus owners have not been able to book 51 and 52 (even if they are entitled to but the system always shows zero inventory when the window opens) tells me that either Vistana is getting them all or that the few 51-52 weeks available are allocated (improperly) exclusively to one of these new products like Westin Aventuras. This is wrong either way.
 
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cubigbird

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The more such products the more chances the inventory is not handled properly. Not necessarily intentionally but because we are all humans and mistakes do occur. The people programming have to deal with units in different seasons, sizes, views, phases and probably others. We know that Vistana has the ability to allocate the weeks as it pleases: it may give one product more availability in a particular week and it leaves another product with more weeks in other times of the same season. The issue at Lagunamar where in the last 3-4 years regular platinum plus owners have not been able to book 51 and 52 (even if they are entitled to but the system always shows zero inventory when the window opens) tells me that either Vistana is getting them all or that the few 51-52 weeks available are allocated (improperly) exclusively to one of these new products like Westin Aventuras.

Perhaps that now may be the point? Maybe VSE is trying to manufacture such inventory chaos so it’s easier for them to cherry pick the prime weeks for their rental purposes??? When it’s not strait forward it’s way easier to exploit it and abuse??
 

canesfan

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It’s interesting that they are advertising that you won’t be able to buy Westin Flex in Hawaii. Are Nanea sales that slow that they are only going to push that?

Last March they tried to sell us Nanea, then Westin Flex and once it was obvious we would never buy points they offered us a deeded unit at WKORVN. The salesperson was very surprised when I brought up the Westin Flex inventory in Maui having a lot of IV Building 4. He used the analogy of selling potato soup and throwing a few pieces of steak in there calling it steak soup.

We own at North and haven’t received an email but it’s not a product I have any interest in. I’m not giving up my deeds just to be able not to make a 7 day reservation on a weekend. So far I’ve had no problem adding on days to extend when I’ve wanted at 8 months, during whale season.


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DeniseM

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1/24/19 Update: Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate.

Incorrect reservation example redacted.
 
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CalGalTraveler

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I may have not received this email because my WKORVN weeks are OF and WKORVN and WKORV OF are not part of the Flex program. Therefore, if an OF owner traded in for Flex, it would be very difficult to get an OF villa during anything other than low season since reservations could not be made in the 12-8 month window.

I never received this either. We own OF.

Why would anyone buy HI IV and pay the high MF if you could buy mainland and participate in Flex? I am assuming the MF would be lower because the nosebleed high HI MF would be diluted with lower mainland MF.
 

controller1

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Here is the reservation I was talking about - it was made in September with Nanea Home options.

This is the point: This is a home resort reservation, made with Nanea Home Options, at WKORV-N, more then 9 months before check-in. It is not a Staroption reservation. So that means that Westin Flex that includes all of the Maui resorts has been in place at least since September - but it wasn't publicly disclosed.

The Westin Kāʻanapali Ocean Resort Villas North
170 Kai Ala Drive, Lāhainā, Maui, Hawaiʻi 96761, United States
Phone: 808-667-3200 | Fax: 808-667-3201
Home Options used for this reservation: 148,100
Confirmation Number: [redacted]
Guest Name: [redacted]
Confirmation Date: 10/19/2018
Arrival: Saturday, 07/27/2019 at 4PM, local time
Departure: Saturday, 07/06/2019 at 10AM, local time
Villa Type: 2 Bedroom Lockoff Villa
Villa Number: Floating - assigned at check-in
Occupancy: 8 Maximum
Accessibility Features: Does Not Apply
Housekeeping Fees: Does Not Apply


Quick question: how can the departure date be prior to the arrival date?

The above is not how my Westin Flex Home Resort Reservation looks for WKORVN. My reservation has the notation "Reservation Type: Home Resort Reservation" directly under Guest Name. Also, under Villa Type it states "2 Bedroom Lockoff Villa, Islandview".
 

DeniseM

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Quick question: how can the departure date be prior to the arrival date?

Sorry for the confusion - I was trying to figure out the best way to edit it and you probably saw the previous version, before I posted the final version.

The above is not how my Westin Flex Home Resort Reservation looks for WKORVN.

Are you saying that you used Nanea Flex Options to make a WKORV-N reservation?
 
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controller1

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[redacted - because I edited my post.]

Are you saying that you used Nanea Flex Options to make a WKORV-N reservation?

No, I used Westin Flex. All I am saying is that a Home Resort Reservation will have the notation "Reservation Type: Home Resort Reservation" listed under the guest name and will be specific as to "Islandview" since that view is what is enrolled in the Flex program.

Additionally, I just attempted to make a Home Resort Reservation at WKORVN during January 2020 using my Nanea Home Options and the system would not allow it. Availability was there but I could not assign the Nanea Home Options towards the reservation.

Perhaps this was an IT glitch that has been corrected. If I were the reservation holder, I would be concerned about the validity of the reservation.

Did you actually see a screen print of the reservation?
 
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DeniseM

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1/24/19 Update: Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate.

This is a different kind of reservation - it uses Nanea Home Options to reserve WKORV-N during the home resort reservation period - that is my point.

Did you actually see a screen print of the reservation?

I'm holding the actual reservation in my hands - it is 100% Legit.
 
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DeniseM

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controller1 - Is the Westin Flex program that you bought into the same one that is outlined in the letter that I posted above? Where did you buy it?
 

DavidnRobin

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This is a different kind of reservation - it uses Nanea Home Options to reserve WKORV-N during the home resort reservation period - that is my point.



I'm holding the actual reservation in my hands - it is 100% Legit.

I am a bit confused - if Nanea is included in Flex - and some of WKORV/N villas are included in Flex, then why couldn’t WKORV/N Flex be reserved at 8-12 months out using Nanea?

Regardless, w/o some type of purposeful misdirection by VSE/VSN, they cannot reserve more villas than owned in Flex. They can’t legally use the deeded pool in Flex.

Can they grab the good weeks? Yep. Supposedly they have always done this.

Glad I own OF.



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DannyTS

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It sounds like they have the same 12 month window as weeks owners.
they do but they are not restricted to weekend check in. That means they can go a day before a regular owner for a Thu-Thu reservation. That week will obviously no longer be available to the regular week owner. If they do not manage the inventory properly (and there is no evidence that they do) they have in fact created 2 classes owners not only in terms of flexibility but also in terms of priority.
 

DeniseM

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1/24/19 Update: Further research shows that Nanea and Westin Flex do not overlap - they are separate.

Hi Dave - Nanea Flex and Westin Flex are supposedly 2 different programs. If you look at the Westin Flex list of resorts in the first post, Nanea is not included. However, now it appears that they do indeed overlap, or perhaps, they are the same program, and Vistana just failed to disclose that.
 
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CalGalTraveler

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they do but they are not restricted to weekend check in. That means they can go a day before a regular owner for a Thu-Thu reservation. That week will obviously no longer be available to the regular week owner. If they do not manage the inventory properly (and there is no evidence that they do) they have in fact created 2 classes owners not only in terms of flexibility but also in terms of priority.

That makes sense but I was under the impression that it is separate inventory than weeks owners. For example, they would not have access to OF inventory.
 

DavidnRobin

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they do but they are not restricted to weekend check in. That means they can go a day before a regular owner for a Thu-Thu reservation. That week will obviously no longer be available to the regular week owner. If they do not manage the inventory properly (and there is no evidence that they do) they have in fact created 2 classes owners not only in terms of flexibility but also in terms of priority.

They can do something illegally I assume, but not sure why they would as they do not need to (beyond the legality).

Flex reservations need to come from Flex inventory, and deeded reservations need to come from deeded inventory.

Beyond VSE/VSN complicity in an illegal act (doubtful) - Flex reservations can do what they want.

The danger in Flex is that people wanting to go to HI may end up in a non-HI Resort especially if they want to reserve HI in high season, or not reserving at 12 months out.



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DavidnRobin

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Hi Dave - Nanea Flex and Westin Flex are supposedly 2 different programs. If you look at the Westin Flex list of resorts in the first post, Nanea is not included. However, now it appears that they do indeed overlap, or perhaps, they are the same program, and Vistana just failed to disclose that.

I am not sure as I did not pursue Nanea, but what is Nanea Flex?
By Nanea Flex - do you mean just Nanea ownership without the ability to make a Flex reservation using Flex inventory at another Flex Resort ? Otherwise, what is the Nanea Flex part other than just normal Home Resort ownership at Nanea?

If a Nanea Owner can reserve WKORV/N Flex inventory- that opens space for a Nanea Reservation for Flex Owners (and I assume SO exchangers if available).

Am I missing something?


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They can do something illegally I assume, but not sure why they would as they do not need to (beyond the legality).

Flex reservations need to come from Flex inventory, and deeded reservations need to come from deeded inventory.

Beyond VSE/VSN complicity in an illegal act (doubtful) - Flex reservations can do what they want.

The danger in Flex is that people wanting to go to HI may end up in a non-HI Resort especially if they want to reserve HI in high season, or not reserving at 12 months out.



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As I said before, VSN has a lot of flexibility in allocating specific weeks of the year to specific products within the same season.

So why exactly would be illegal (a too strong word i find for this case) for example if Westin Aventuras booked all 51-52 weeks at Lagunamar while the regular owners booked more of the other weeks of the year. The total number of weeks per season and per product would be ok, right?
 
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