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New to HGVC

bosco0633

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I cold called her one night around 1030 at night when I first found her number on ebay. She spoke to me for 2 hours, not so much on the resale but on how the system worked. No wonder she is one of the top agents in Florida. It is so much more than just a quick sale with her, she really appeals to the client.
 

Da Wolf

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Well, got everything worked out. Rescention letter going out today. And working with Judi for the purchase of the resale property. Thanks to you all, and of course Judi for helping us out on this. This is why, I join forums like this cause of people like y'all.
 

ricoba

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Good for you! I wish I had found TUG before we paid full retail from HGVC.

We like HGVC, but I would like it a whole lot more if I had paid half of what I paid! :D

Welcome!
 
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Something to chew on

When you purchase a contract, you have a right to use the specific inventory (whether that be a unit/week, unit/season, or grouping of points) that is assigned to the contract every year or in some cases, every other year in a bi-annual situation. Many developers, such as Hilton, have added a club component that lays on top of this owned contract. The club allows you more flexibility to, for lack of a better term, "exchange your inventory" within the club. This is a privilege, not a right of your ownership. In some situations, developers may, and legally will refuse membership into this club for owners that have purchased inventory on the open market. Yes your inventory is still good into the specific contracted time associated with that contract, however, you may not be able to participate within that organizations club. Re-Sellers will not release this information to you. However, from an insiders point of view, please keep this in mind when purchasing from an open market source. Yes the price maybe different, and you could save money, but like anything that seems to good to be true, sometimes it is just that.
 

bosco0633

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this is not the case thought with the HGVC. The only thing that you cant get from resale is Elite status. Which is no big deal, in my honest opinion. Although TS are very similar in principle, they differ greatly from company to company. You need to be careful with blanket statements for specifiic TS as they can confuse others that are new to the game.

Welcome to tug by the way:whoopie:
 

Talent312

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As bosco says, generalizing about club-systems is not helpful with respect to the peculiar attributes of HGVC. With its properties (not "affiliates"), there is never a question of membership... All TS's in an HGVC property are retained in HGVC inventory for its use as a condition of ownership (it ain't optional). One simply cannot own one of its TS without also being a club-member.
 
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Bustah

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I have owned resale for over 6 years now, and with the exception of Elite status, have zero issues with any form of ownership discrimination with HGVC. In fact, I am often congratulated for being a club member for over 10 years (the original contract date).

Perhaps AnInsidersPointofView should tell us a bit more about his/her insider status since you just joined TUG and started posting today. As you can see, our experience is not exactly matching your insider's view.
 

alwysonvac

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When you purchase a contract, you have a right to use the specific inventory (whether that be a unit/week, unit/season, or grouping of points) that is assigned to the contract every year or in some cases, every other year in a bi-annual situation. Many developers, such as Hilton, have added a club component that lays on top of this owned contract. The club allows you more flexibility to, for lack of a better term, "exchange your inventory" within the club. This is a privilege, not a right of your ownership. In some situations, developers may, and legally will refuse membership into this club for owners that have purchased inventory on the open market. Yes your inventory is still good into the specific contracted time associated with that contract, however, you may not be able to participate within that organizations club. Re-Sellers will not release this information to you. However, from an insiders point of view, please keep this in mind when purchasing from an open market source. Yes the price maybe different, and you could save money, but like anything that seems to good to be true, sometimes it is just that.

This sounds like a post from a sales person.

Sales folks have used various lines to scare folks into buying from the developer vs the resale market - see this old thread http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97652

While, it's true that HGVC has ultimate control (link), HGVC has never indicate that it would do anything like this.

It would be a sad day, if any timeshare developer implemented rules to limit club access to retail buyers only. Timeshare developers would basically be selling something that would have limited value if the owner ever wanted to sell. Sadly, some Marriott sales folks are trying to use this scare tactic. It's a sales tactic that may backfire on them - see this recent post (link).

Here's another insider point of view about the timeshare sales process from a timeshare salesman.
The following is from post #51 from this recent thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96091

newbietimesharesalesman said:
And that is what I am getting into in the next section of my post...

The REAL DEAL.

We (TS salesman) are TRAINED to extract every dollar possible on these presentations. It is down to an exact science, tried and tested and proven to work 20% of the time on average. We are TRAINED to extract a "Dominant Buying Motive" from every client, and ride that until the client gets frustrated and leaves, or purchases. This "training" is put into place upon getting hired, and is much like a high-pressure presentation in itself... Two weeks of intense training, where every day you can be fired for ONE comment to the negative aspect of buying/owning TS. ONE comment. We are TRAINED to pit wife against husband, playing on emotion the entire time. "Logic does not buy timeshare, Greed and Emotion do." That saying is a POSTER IN THE TRAINING ROOM OF THE RESORT THAT I WAS HIRED AT. That is why the TS industry offers free gifts. Because the SAME GREED that enticed you to take the presentation will ultimately sell you.

Here is a typical day at work (just to let you folks in on the darkside of the timeshare industry) - I will give you a rundown of what happens behind the scenes, and then I will tell you what I modified to keep my sanity and karma intact... Please feel free to distribute this information to those who plan on attending their first presentation...

1. Morning meeting (typically takes place 45 minutes before the first wave of tours)

The project director pumps everyone up by yelling "GOOD MORNING ______!!!!!!(fill in name of company)" Then he/she announces each representatives sales from the previous day to resounding applause. The representatives clap and yell praise, mainly because we all make 20%-25% commision on every sale. Thats a LOT of money. They then single out representatives who they feel "missed" deals. They reiterate the fact that each and every guest couple are MAKING A PACT AT THAT VERY MOMENT NOT TO BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS, and that our job for the day is to turn those people around. They remind the sales staff of the monthly contest, and announce the leaders (last month my resort gave away a Rolex Oyster Perpetual watch with 15 diamond insets to first place. Second place recieved a Gold Crown RCI red week, round trip business class airfare for two, and $1000 spending money. Third place recieved $750.) This pumps everyone up and gets them ready for the presentation.

2. First wave

You take your presentation, hopefully resulting in a sale. If you do sell, you may go home. After all, the average sales price at my resort for a red week is $21,500. That's a $4,300 average commision for 3-4 hours work. Enough money to literally make you sick. If you do not sell, you are put into a "de-briefing" to see what you missed and to go over your personal numbers. If a sales rep takes 10 tours without making 2 sales he/she is put into a probationary status and can be let go. Talk about high pressure! You have no idea... As of late, I have had no problem keeping my job. A lot of the anger I see in your responses probably comes from the fact that TS salespeople make much more money than society's doctors, lawyers and the such. I understand your frustrations. Believe me, TS organizations are always hiring. Come on in and apply!! ;)

To keep my sanity through all of this, I do not follow the "Steps of the TS Sale". I will lay these steps out to all of you as well, as this has now turned into a sort of confessional LOL. I modify the steps so I don't have to talk people into a sale, I let folks talk themselves into the sale. They simply buy what they "need". As far as I am concerned, I am not faulting them... There is nothing I love more than making a hefty commision on a snotty, arrogant lawyer or doctor who already owns too much timeshare. On the other hand, if I determine that my guests simply could not AFFORD or USE what I am selling, I FLAT OUT TELL THEM WITHIN THE FIRST 15 MINUTES... This way, we can just sit there and talk about the weather, art, politics, etc., as opposed to trying to talk them into buying something outside of their comfort zone. The only occasional guilt that I feel is not talking about re-sale. But WHY SHOULD I??? After all, that guilt or anxiety is SQUASHED when I pick up a tour that is arrogant, and just there for the gifts after doing 4 other presentations within 2 days of a "family" vacation. Those people, dragging their kids and wives around to 4 different resorts to take advantage of free gifts. To me, those people are open game. Nature vs. nurture. That is the purpose of my original post. STOP DOING PRESENTATIONS. That way, you take yourself out of the loop.

Anyway, here are the "Steps of the TS Sale".

1 - Meet and Greet (designed to break down original sales defenses)

2 - Warm Up (essentially making friends with your guests, asking about kids, jobs, lesiure activities, vacation habits, hobbies, etc. - designed to further break down sales defense) This is also where we re-qualify our guests being that our requirements are married couples (US citizens), under 70 years old who make $75,000 or more per year. You would be surprised how many families LIE ABOUT THEIR INCOME in order to get some free Disney tickets. Now we are trained to GET RID OF THEM, or "NQ" them immediately WITHOUT GIFTS. But I feel as if sometimes these families really NEED the gifts in order to give their kids a vacation. Times are tough. So I NEVER "NQ" them. Instead, upon finding out they don't meet our requirements I sit and talk with them about nothing for the required time, and gift them just like a tour that said "no". I tell them right off the bat that I know why they came in, and that the next rep they sit in front of will surely kick them out. Hopefully they learn from the experience, but probably not. At least I can sleep at night.

3 - BREAK THE PACT
"John and Mary, we KNOW that you had a talk before coming in here, saying to each other WE WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS. All I ask is that you keep an open mind and not rule anything out until you understand the concept of our program. Is that fair to ask?" We are required to get a handshake as commitment and NOT MOVE ON until the guests agree to keep an open mind". This is designed to break down the PACT that all of you made before you went on the presentation that you bought on. It obviously worked on all of you!!

4 - Intent Statement (basically telling your guests that they have to make a choice while they are there on your presentation. There is no "think about it". "At the end of the presentation I will ask your opinion. A simple yes or no. If you have to "think about it" then we have to file that in the "no" catagory, and you are not eligible to take a presentation with our company for 18 months." This is designed to create urgency and to better your chances of a sale. I COMPLETELY SKIP THIS. I believe that if the people I sit in front of really could use this program, then they will buy it today. Our managers make it SEEM like a very good deal without mentioning re-sale. Again, for a family that can't afford or use it, I don't even call a manager. But GOD HELP the arrogant rich guy. He's going to ultimately pay ME my $1,100 hourly wage. Well, actually not every time LOL. 39% of the time it works EVERY TIME... ;)

5 - Discovery (asking questions and vacation habits. Most importantly HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE SPENDING RENTING HOTEL ROOMS - this figure is used against the clients in the next section)

6 - Rent VS Own (comparing what the client will potentially spend over the course of their lives (and childrens lives) RENTING hotel/resorts. Usually if the client is used to spending $150 - $200 per night on hotel accomodations for 2-3 weeks of vacation per year, then they are spending $2,100 - $2,800 annually on JUST THEIR ACCOMODATIONS. Over ten years they will spend $21,000 - $28,000 BEFORE INFLATION and that does not include activites or FOOD while vacationing. Obviously most folks are at the age where they have 20 to 30 years of vacationing left. With an average inflation rate of 5% annually, compounded over 20 - 30 years, the costs of RENTING ACCOMODATIONS is staggering. Thus the logic of ownership.

I usually don't spend much time on this, as seasoned TS vets know exactly what I am doing with those numbers. Remember, you are going to say "no" no matter what, right? ;)

7 - Property Tour (it sells itself. Pro golf course. Beach front units. Brand new appliances. Water park for kids. Jet skis. Grocery store. Amen.)

8 - Money. we are trained to call a manager over to go over the costs. At that point it is crystal clear whether or not they have any interest. At the end of each step above, we ask "trial close" questions in order to keep the client saying "yes". If they say "no" to a trial close, then we do not move on, even if it means gifting them and getting them out of there.

I do not use trial closes. It is too mechanical. Again, people that have been on these things KNOW why I'm asking. If the product is good, the property blows them away, and the cost is affordable, then the client's GREED will do the work for me. The same greed that brought them in there in the first place.



So there you have it. The inside scoop. Yes, the inital sales part of the TS industry is designed to get as much out of your pocket as possible without letting you in on the wonders of the re-sale world. But YOU have the choice to SAY NO, or DON'T TAKE THE PRESENTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. If you are upset that you bought on your first visit, you SHOULD BE. You are upset at yourself for not doing research and being an EMOTIONAL BUYER. If you have trouble saying "no" then DON'T GO. But don't get MAD at TS salespeople. JUST SAY NO.
 
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Zac495

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I own resale Hilton - they welcomed me as Elite. They just know (at the front desk) that we're owners and gave us whatever they give Elite members (I don't recall it being anything special). If you wanted to go to Hawaii regularly, it would make sense to buy Hawaii, but otherwise - but the best deal. I bought from Seth, but know both he and Judy have great reputations here on TUG.

I, too, am curious about who insider (new poster) is.
 

HatTrick

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Elite status gets you things like Gold VIP HHonors status (Diamond status if you own 34K clubpoints or more), lower club reservation fees (or none at all), 10%/15%/30% open-season cash discount (depending on elite level), special resort access with 12-month reservation window, early check-in/late check-out at some resorts (depending on level), ability to convert current-year clubpoints to HHonors (if you own 24K or more), direct 800 number, etc.
 
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bosco0633

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that is why I think you dont need elite status. I would rather buy resale and save the cash.

If I was Hilton, I would offer elite for resale owners that have the right amount of points and charge a fee to join it. Say 1000.00 fee one time payment. Why not?? They would get people to join, plus it would encourage resale purchasers to get a second unit. At the end of the day, as long as they have enough members paying who cares if you purchased resale or new??? They may not make the initial cash value, but a 1000.00 per resale owner would generate some cash for them.

Just my 2 cents
 
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Trust me, I am no sale rep and in no means am trying to scare you!

I speak nothing but the truth, and feel that you should get all sides of the story in making your decisions about purchasing your vacation ownership. In many cases, I have directed friends and family that are interested in vacation ownership purchase to investigate the secondary markets. I too am familiar with the reduced prices and lately because of the economy increased inventory pools. As I have never dealt directly with the resale companies you have mentioned, I do not doubt that they are trustworthy people with solid reputations. My effort here is not to come on here to attack or try to make my light brighter by blowing out the flame of others. I will leave that up to others. I simply come here to offer an insiders point of view and hopefully lend a hand.
 

hockeybrain

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"As I have never dealt directly with the resale companies you have mentioned, I do not doubt that they are trustworthy people with solid reputations."

Then why post your "information" on the Hilton thread to start with???

Is your middle name TROLL?
 

alwysonvac

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Perhaps AnInsidersPointofView should tell us a bit more about his/her insider status since you just joined TUG and started posting today. As you can see, our experience is not exactly matching your insider's view.

Hi AnInsidersPointofView,

How do you get your insider information?

You have several timeshare systems listed under your username (Resorts: Sunterra, Diamond Resorts, Hilton Grand Vacations Company, Hyatt, Wyndham, Intrawest, DIVY, Celebrity Resorts etc...). Perhaps if you answer the question stated above, it would help us.

For example,
Do you work for HGVC, one of the resort developers, an exchange company, ARDA, timeshare related magazine company, etc?
If you're not in sales, do you work in Product Development, Product Marketing, Customer Service, etc?

I guess I'm a little confused. In your previous response, you stated "I speak nothing but the truth, and feel that you should get all sides of the story in making your decisions about purchasing your vacation ownership". I think we're honest here and try to tell folks all sides of the story. Take a look at the various TUG forums, TUG Advice Page and TUG Reviews. Is there something that you read on TUG that made you think differently or did you just assumed this wasn't happening on TUG?

TUG Advice Page - http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/tug_timeshare_advice.shtml
TUG Ranking & Reviews - http://tug2.com/RnR/ResortsGrid.aspx
TUG forums - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php (don't forget to read the threads at the top of each forum starting with the word "STICKY" for FAQs and TIPS)
 
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pianodinosaur

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We have Elite Plus status and purchased directly from HGVC before I knew about TUG and the resale market. Hilton has always been honest with me and we have enjoyed our membership greatly. I realize that I could have saved a great deal purchasing resale but I have better things to do than kick myself at this point. However, Hilton will not build new resorts at different locations unless there is a market for people who will purchase directly from HGVC at those locations.
 

Happy Camper

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Help!

My Husband and I just bought 4800 points at the new HGVC in Orlando, last Tuesday, before I new about this thread. Then someone told us about a great deal they got on Ebay, for 5 weeks at Wyndham, for a little over 2k! This sounded to good to be true! I feel so foolish! We originally purchased 3800 Bi annual points of HGVC, in Las Vegas on the Strip last year for 11k. Last week we traded up to the 4800 points annual in Orlando, for around 20k. They said we had 2k in equity, so this brought our purchase down to 18k. We put down a 1K deposit. If we rescind, do we loose our deposit? And what about the trade in and our equity, is that gone to? I was aware of resales but I didn't know where to turn, or where to begin. I like HGVC, but hearing about the good deals people were getting after we made this purchase, is very disheartening. Is this Da Wolf's thread? Should I start a new thread?
 
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alwysonvac

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My Husband and I just bought 4800 points at the new HGVC in Orlando, last Tuesday, before I new about this thread. Then someone told us about a great deal they got on Ebay, for 5 weeks at Wyndham, for a little over 2k! This sounded to good to be true! I feel so foolish! We originally purchased 3800 Bi annual points of HGVC, in Las Vegas on the Strip last year for 11k. Last week we traded up to the 4800 points annual in Orlando, for around 20k. They said we had 2k in equity, so this brought our purchase down to 18k. We put down a 1K deposit. If we rescind, do we loose our deposit? And what about the trade in and our equity, is that gone to? I was aware of resales but I didn't know where to turn, or where to begin. I like HGVC, but hearing about the good deals people were getting after we made this purchase, is very disheartening. Is this Da Wolf's thread? Should I start a new thread?

Wow they only gave 2k equity on a previous developer purchase. :eek:

Don't know for sure but I would believe rescinding an upgrade would be treated the same as a non-upgrade purchase. So in your case everything would be returned to what it was before the upgrade transaction began (deposit returned and back to being an owner of 3800 Bi annual points).

Just follow the contract cancellation instructions exactly as stated in your paperwork. Hurry before your cancellation period ends !!

Good Luck and Welcome to TUG :hi:
 

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You were right Alwysonvac, we followed the directions for rescinding our contract with HGVC Parc Soliel exactly. We faxed a letter of our intent to cancel our contract. We also sent a copy certified with a signature receipt request, all within the Florida ten day grace period. Someone from the quality care office called the day after we sent the fax (Pacific Time). We just told them that after processing all of the information, we felt that the purchase was not in our budget at this time. She couldn't have been nicer and more understanding. She told us that we would receive our deposit back and would return what we had before the transaction began. We don't have anything in writing yet of course but I feel that everything is going to work out just fine.

Thank You so much for your support, the whole experience was a little intimidating!:cheer:
 
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yumdrey

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congrats!!!!!
You saved a lot of money thanks to TUG!
I am also surprised to see that they gave you only 2k for your previous ownership.
 

Sandy VDH

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Just being curious with this question. But, what are the advantages of owning at more than one location? I am in NO WAY doing this right now. But have noticed that alot of you have more than one location. And it has peaked my interest in why own more than one location. Just looking to get as much information as I can is all.

Not getting hit with mulitple special assessments at the same time. Think of it as a diversified portfolio.
 
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