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New Resale Restrictions - now confirmed by DVC

Dean

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Personally I think this is just a function of expiration dates of contracts. If memory serves me.. arnt most of the original 14 over or nearly over the half way point?

I am guessing/hoping that they are going to start letting the floor fall on resale prices on those since they are going to be getting them all back anyways within 25 years..

At which point they can sell them brand new all over again as part of their new system for the resorts they chose

I know that a number of the die hard original owners were opposed to Dvc locations outside of the vicinity of parks trading into park resorts... this is the "fix"

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The current resorts vary. 5 of the 14 (2 off site) have a Jan 2042 ending so 23 years or so. The next one to end is SSR and it's 2054 then AKV & OKW at 2057 and so on. Of the older resort, only OKW has been extended. This makes an extension for the current resorts unlikely unless it's in the new system with the new restrictions.
 

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I am hoping that DVC just draws one line in the sand. There are so many dates with this restriction or that restriction. It is rather a pain to keep up with.

I'm not interested in buying in the new category. And I'm not opposed to selling the resale that I own to buy another direct contract, though. When I first purchased in 2015, use years and home resorts didn't mean all that much to me. Now I see that they are VERY important.
 

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I think the newer 14 "originals" will be fine. Resales can trade into all of the monorail and Epcot resorts plus uniquely themed AKV with SSR as a back-up. I am also wondering about resorts when they hit 20 years left to expire. I see them ticking downward with the newer ones holding steady.
We're still talking resale prices at nearly 50% off direct purchase. I think for a family with a number cruncher (which resale purchasers tend to do), giving up Riviera, etc. is a more than decent trade off. Just like those who buy SSR due to low cost. Certainly would be for our household.
 

littlestar

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I would not touch a Riviera contract with a ten foot pole. I would rather book Port Orleans French Quarter on cash with my annual pass discount for a few nights to treat the grandkids and then move over to a Marriott timeshare for the week.

We have discussed all these changes with our grown kids that DVC has been making. Our oldest daughter said “I don’t get it because if a Riviera resale buyer can only stay at Riviera, how will they ever fall in love with another resort if they can’t try it out?” She was thinking of all our DVC add-on’s through the years after great vacations at the different DVC locations.
 

elaine

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yep--we traded VWL DVC into OKW, BWV, AKV, and HHI, with BCV booked for April. That's one of the things I love most about DVC--each resort is a totally different experience, so it never gets old.
 

TravelTime

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Personally I think this is just a function of expiration dates of contracts. If memory serves me.. arnt most of the original 14 over or nearly over the half way point?

I am guessing/hoping that they are going to start letting the floor fall on resale prices on those since they are going to be getting them all back anyways within 25 years..

At which point they can sell them brand new all over again as part of their new system for the resorts they chose

I know that a number of the die hard original owners were opposed to Dvc locations outside of the vicinity of parks trading into park resorts... this is the "fix"

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No many of the original 14 are still pretty new and opened in the past 10 years. Copper Creek just opened. The older ones are OKW, SSR, BWV, and BCV but they still have 25-30+ or so years left, expirations vary. See Dean’s more precise reply.
 
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rhonda

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No most of the original 14 are still pretty new and opened in the past 10 years. Copper Creek just opened. The really old ones are SSR and OKW but they still have 25-30+ or so years left, expirations vary. See Dean’s more precise reply.
Agreed, go see Dean's post. Your claim in bold is simply incorrect. The first round to expire in 2042 will include HHI, VB, BWV & BC. SSR doesn't expire until 2054 and OKW until 2057.
 

TravelTime

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Agreed, go see Dean's post. Your claim in bold is simply incorrect. The first round to expire in 2042 will include HHI, VB, BWV & BC. SSR doesn't expire until 2054 and OKW until 2057.

I corrected my post to include BWV and BCV. I was just giving a general answer and not a precise answer. That is why I referred to Dean's post. There may still people with an older expiring contract at OKW, I think, but not sure. My point is the DVCs are not expiring all that soon.
 

Jason245

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I corrected my post to include BWV and BCV. I was just giving a general answer and not a precise answer. That is why I referred to Dean's post. There may still people with an older expiring contract at OKW, I think, but not sure. My point is the DVCs are not expiring all that soon.
20 to 25 years is soon when you are talking about 50 year contacts.

At least if they are developing long term plans that involve major renovations and resale as new of those resorts as they expire..

I imagine that it will take them at least 6 months to renovate once a DVC resort expires and all that inventory comes back to them.. probably at least that long if not even longer for them to sell it out again..

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TravelTime

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I have been hitting my head against the wall trying to figure out Disney’s strategy for limiting resales to only the 14 original resorts and eventually to only the home resort purchased. This sounds like a dumb idea to me. If I can buy Riviera on the resale market for 1/10 the price of retail due to these limitations, then I would be more likely to buy it resale. This will make it harder IMO to sell direct because the word will get out about how cheap it is to buy resale. I think it is in DVC’s best interests for resale prices to remain high relative to buying direct. Also, if pricing of DVC on the resale market collapses, Disney will start attracting a clientele who is cheaper and less willing to spend as much. From what I can see, that is not DVC’s target market. I think it is in DVC’s best interests to ensure resale prices are high for all of these reasons.

Right now, with resale being so expensive, it sometimes still makes sense to buy direct. The bigger the price differential, the more likely people like us would buy resale. I would not be able to justify a retail purchase that is 10 times higher than resale. I can justify a retail purchase if it is only 20-30% higher, like many of the current resorts are now. I actually bought about half my points direct from DVC in the past for my small contracts (30-75 points) because the price differential was not that big. For my bigger contracts, I purchase resale since the price differential is bigger. In the future, I doubt I will ever buy direct again because of these changes. Riviera would have to be pretty amazing for me to want to stay there over the places I already own. But if I could get Riviera for 10%-30% of the retail price, I might be enticed, even if I could only stay at that one resort.
 

Dean

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I have been hitting my head against the wall trying to figure out Disney’s strategy for limiting resales to only the 14 original resorts and eventually to only the home resort purchased. This sounds like a dumb idea to me. If I can buy Riviera on the resale market for 1/10 the price of retail due to these limitations, then I would be more likely to buy it resale. This will make it harder IMO to sell direct because the word will get out about how cheap it is to buy resale. I think it is in DVC’s best interests for resale prices to remain high relative to buying direct. Also, if pricing of DVC on the resale market collapses, Disney will start attracting a clientele who is cheaper and less willing to spend as much. From what I can see, that is not DVC’s target market. I think it is in DVC’s best interests to ensure resale prices are high for all of these reasons.

Right now, with resale being so expensive, it sometimes still makes sense to buy direct. The bigger the price differential, the more likely people like us would buy resale. I would not be able to justify a retail purchase that is 10 times higher than resale. I can justify a retail purchase if it is only 20-30% higher, like many of the current resorts are now. I actually bought about half my points direct from DVC in the past for my small contracts (30-75 points) because the price differential was not that big. For my bigger contracts, I purchase resale since the price differential is bigger. In the future, I doubt I will ever buy direct again because of these changes. Riviera would have to be pretty amazing for me to want to stay there over the places I already own. But if I could get Riviera for 10%-30% of the retail price, I might be enticed, even if I could only stay at that one resort.
There are 2 ways to differentiate, price and options. And with options one can add to the in group or take away from the out group. In addition one can sell using sales techniques that maximize sales per tour and minimizes the chances someone will walk away, esp making it an emotional purchase. It's really not in DVD's best interest for resale prices to be high. The best case scenario from their standpoint is the perception of the ability to sell but the reality that one effetely cannot sell. EVERY single resale is a potential lost retail sale even if the buyer says they wouldn't have bought retail.
 

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There are 2 ways to differentiate, price and options. And with options one can add to the in group or take away from the out group. In addition one can sell using sales techniques that maximize sales per tour and minimizes the chances someone will walk away, esp making it an emotional purchase. It's really not in DVD's best interest for resale prices to be high. The best case scenario from their standpoint is the perception of the ability to sell but the reality that one effetely cannot sell. EVERY single resale is a potential lost retail sale even if the buyer says they wouldn't have bought retail.

I am sure you are right and this is DVC’s rationale.
 

Lisa P

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If I can buy Riviera on the resale market for 1/10 the price of retail due to these limitations, then I would be more likely to buy it resale.
If DVC exercises ROFR on every dirt cheap resale contract, they are able to resell those points as "direct purchase" and they will have a steady stream of developer points to sell without the higher cost of building more new properties. Even if they are not able to raise prices on direct purchase Riviera points over time, as they have with other resorts, this could be a new business strategy.

I think it is in DVC’s best interests to ensure resale prices are high...
If a Riviera member/seller actually finds a resale buyer who is willing to buy a restricted contract at a high price, DVC would let it pass anyhow. This is definitely a different approach... and not a good one for new resort buyers, IMO. As a business, this is just another angle, with Disney's primary goal: Turn a profit. :shrug:
 

Dean

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I am sure you are right and this is DVC’s rationale.
They'll likely do a combination of the 3 with several variations and nuances. Sales wise they'll do what timeshare sales always does, spin it as a positive, as they should it's their job.
 

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The resale restrictions for Riviera have not yet been announced by Disney. It appears likely though.
 

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Up to a point, the developers love low resale prices, they are an endless pipeline of cheap inventory. Not only that they spend less money on ROFR but somebody with a low value contract is more likely to default on payments so the developer can acquire the contract virtually for free.

DVC decided to follow the competition instead of continuing to lead. It is very sad in my opinion.
 
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ljmiii

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Panina

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Up to a point, the developers love low resale prices, they are an endless pipeline of cheap inventory. Not only that they spend less money on ROFR but somebody with a low value contract is more likely to default on payments so the developer can acquire the contract virtually for free.

DVC decided to follow the competition instead of continuing to lead. It is very sad in my opinion.
Dvc has been considered the best to buy in the past, unfortunately they decided they can change and devalue members ownership because everyone else is doing it too.

If the new resort purchased from dvc can trade into the original 14, in time, it will be much harder to get what one wants for those who own the 14. Once word gets out, resale values will go down. This is also a push to get the 14 to buy into the new resorts.

I doubt this is the end of the new rules, it is probably the beginning. I do not know what is stated in the contract for the 14. If somehow it allows resales to be excluded from internal trading of the 14 in time it will happen.

My thought is with the push for companies to give their members a way to get out of ownership, as we are seeing with ARDA’s new website https://responsibleexit.com/ , if they participate they would want to get them as cheap as possible. Changing rules which causes resale values to descrease significantly is a win for the developer. Most people know nothing of a resale market and just buy from the developer so the developer really doesn’t care if resale value is zero.
 

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[QUOTE="Panina, post: 2235233, member: 82837"
I doubt this is the end of the new rules, it is probably the beginning. I do not know what is stated in the contract for the 14. If somehow it allows resales to be excluded from internal trading of the 14 in time it will happen.
.[/QUOTE]

My docs show my resorts (Beach Club Villas and Saratoga Springs) are part of “the club” and from the way my documents read it would take expiration of the lease (2042 for BCV and 2054 for SSR) or pretty much a natural disaster to separate my resorts from “the club.” Sounds like the new upcoming DVC resorts will be worded differently.
 
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Panina

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[QUOTE="Panina, post: 2235233, member: 82837"
I doubt this is the end of the new rules, it is probably the beginning. I do not know what is stated in the contract for the 14. If somehow it allows resales to be excluded from internal trading of the 14 in time it will happen.
.

My docs show my resorts (Beach Club Villas and Saratoga Springs) are part of “the club” and from the way my documents read it would take expiration of the lease (2042 for BCV and 2054 for SSR) or pretty much a natural disaster to separate my resorts from “the club.” Sounds like the new upcoming DVC resorts will be worded differently.[/QUOTE]

So far good. Is there any reference about resale or rules allowed to change?
 

TravelTime

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As long as the DVC “club” is in our contracts and assuming it is a right, not a privilege (I have not yet double checked my contracts), then buying into the original 14 should be good now and in the future. Current owners are all grandfathered so we are not losing anything we bought. Right now, people are snapping up all the contracts and the prices are not so inflated actually. I think prices fell a bit before the holidays since there was suddenly a flood of people wanting out, probably due to the higher MFs and point chart changes. I suspect that resale prices at the 14 will maintain themselves. If Riviera actually does restrict resale to your home resort, that would make the current 14 resorts more valuable on the resale market. It will be like the mandatory and voluntary resorts at Vistana. It is hard to find a well priced contract with one’s usage year right now at many DVC resorts. It will be interesting to see what happens after Jan 19.

I keep thinking that Disney will do something to make Riviera and other new resorts extra special. Maybe they will allow the new resorts to trade in DVC2? Or maybe RCI will be enhanced so DVC owners can exchange. Right now, we can’t trade back into DVC using RCI. I still have hope that the Disney imagineers are being strategic and not only looking at short term revenue gains. I will keep my fingers crossed.
 

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My docs show my resorts (Beach Club Villas and Saratoga Springs) are part of “the club” and from the way my documents read it would take expiration of the lease (2042 for BCV and 2054 for SSR) or pretty much a natural disaster to separate my resorts from “the club.” Sounds like the new upcoming DVC resorts will be worded differently.

So far good. Is there any reference about resale or rules allowed to change?[/QUOTE]

It basically says my ownership in “the club” depends on owning a resort in the club and they go together.
 

Panina

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So far good. Is there any reference about resale or rules allowed to change?

It basically says my ownership in “the club” depends on owning a resort in the club and they go together.[/QUOTE]
Very good news. Seems they can’t change the 14 so they are creating a new system probably to maximize their future profits.
 

Dean

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There are rules that allow changes but all of the current resorts in the club are available subject to the rules of exchange unless they exit the club either by disaster or being removed for some other reason. But as I read it, the resorts in the DVC will be technically available to exchange to within the "current" rules. And any resort added to the club will be the same so the new resorts will have to be a new system with a crossover.
 

Lisa P

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The resale restrictions for Riviera have not yet been announced by Disney. It appears likely though.
I'm not aware of a press release so far and I doubt they will actually have one. But apparently, they have made it officially clear to their media contacts:

https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...le-contract-limitations-beginning-january-19/
https://insidethemagic.net/2019/01/ba1-dvc-resale-changes/
https://wdwnt.com/2019/01/new-limitations-placed-on-disney-vacation-club-resale-contracts/
 
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