New Member Website

[heathpack]

I wish that they could just post the rules- who can do what? Then all of the speculation would go away. I really think that they are afraid of lawsuits and are keeping the HRC owners in the dark to try to implement the new program before the HRC owners can react. This certainly is not the program that we all bought into.

I totally agree. I was reading online while I was on hold, trying to find the "rules". Very irritating that I couldn't find rules nor a fee schedule anywhere. You'd think those would be kind of core, basic things when you're putting together a website.

I really feel like this is a cobbled-together mish mash, that Hyatt is trying to get away with whatever they can rather than being classy or transparent. Such a disappointment compared to what they could have done. Not going to lose much sleep over it, but the whole thing is a giant face palm IMO.

 

[lizap]

HRC owners can book HRC units 12 months out now. Once you get your new points you can book any available unit. The points are identified as HRPP, but actually they are CUP points. The HRPP nomenclature simply indicates you are in a 6-month window where you have the exclusive right to reserve the unit you own.

For all intents and purposes, there is not much HRC inventory until 6 months out for HRC owners.

 

[WalnutBaron]

I wish that they could just post the rules- who can do what? Then all of the speculation would go away. I really think that they are afraid of lawsuits and are keeping the HRC owners in the dark to try to implement the new program before the HRC owners can react. This certainly is not the program that we all bought into.

On the contrary, nothing has really changed for HRC owners. We still get our HRPP period at 12 months out and have six months to lock in our fixed week and unit if so desired. If not, we can place a request for another unit within HRC or try to look for it through the online reservations system. As lizap points out, availability of inventory prior to the expiration of the HRPP is small, simply because those owners can and typically do take their own sweet time in determining if they want to lock in their fixed week (I know I do, anyway). At six months, their HRPP expires and they now have a decision--either use their CUP points for an internal exchange or deposit their points into the EEE external exchange with Interval.

As for the HRP owners, they cannot lock in HRC units at 12 months. They can, however, lock in HRP units at 12 months for those HRP units that have been purchased by Hyatt and placed into the HRP trust. And since it's our reasoned speculation that the HRP program is both flailing and failing, it's also reasonable to assume that there is ample HRP inventory for HRP owners to choose from prior to the HRC owners having their shot at it at 6 months.

In any case, the correct way to look at this latest unannounced development is that it's a plus for HRC owners. Previously, we were led to believe that because the units were held in separate trusts, the only way for HRC owners to access the HRP inventory would be by paying the confiscatory conversion fee. Not true! HRC owners can have access at 6 months out or sooner simply by paying a nominally higher reservation fee. HRP owners, however, cannot access HRC inventory because there is substantial demand for those units within the much more robust HRC owners network.

All in all, HRC owners are the big winners at this point because of the woeful performance of HRP, at least thus far.

 

[Kal]

For all intents and purposes, there is not much HRC inventory until 6 months out for HRC owners.

In almost all cases, when a HRC owner reserves a club unit during the HRPP timeframe, the HRPP exclusive status ends and the owned unit is released for others to reserve. For me, it has been common that I get a confirmation of a club unit during the 12 to 6 month window, which would be about 10 months prior to occupancy.

 

[heathpack]

In almost all cases, when a HRC owner reserves a club unit during the HRPP timeframe, the HRPP exclusive status ends and the owned unit is released for others to reserve. For me, it has been common that I get a confirmation of a club unit during the 12 to 6 month window, which would be about 10 months prior to occupancy.

I agree. I usually give up my own unit well before the 6 month mark and I usually have my internal exchange request filled well prior to the 6 month mark. Ten months seems about what my experience is.

 

[heathpack]

On the contrary, nothing has really changed for HRC owners. We still get our HRPP period at 12 months out and have six months to lock in our fixed week and unit if so desired. If not, we can place a request for another unit within HRC or try to look for it through the online reservations system. As lizap points out, availability of inventory prior to the expiration of the HRPP is small, simply because those owners can and typically do take their own sweet time in determining if they want to lock in their fixed week (I know I do, anyway). At six months, their HRPP expires and they now have a decision--either use their CUP points for an internal exchange or deposit their points into the EEE external exchange with Interval.

As for the HRP owners, they cannot lock in HRC units at 12 months. They can, however, lock in HRP units at 12 months for those HRP units that have been purchased by Hyatt and placed into the HRP trust. And since it's our reasoned speculation that the HRP program is both flailing and failing, it's also reasonable to assume that there is ample HRP inventory for HRP owners to choose from prior to the HRC owners having their shot at it at 6 months.

In any case, the correct way to look at this latest unannounced development is that it's a plus for HRC owners. Previously, we were led to believe that because the units were held in separate trusts, the only way for HRC owners to access the HRP inventory would be by paying the confiscatory conversion fee. Not true! HRC owners can have access at 6 months out or sooner simply by paying a nominally higher reservation fee. HRP owners, however, cannot access HRC inventory because there is substantial demand for those units within the much more robust HRC owners network.

All in all, HRC owners are the big winners at this point because of the woeful performance of HRP, at least thus far.

Where did you get this information? Because my understanding is that previously we HRC weeks owners could book units in HRPP starting at 12 months, if the unit was available. Now the changes are: 1. HPP pure points owners can also reserve HRPP units at 12 months out, so they compete with current owners for these units (admittedly not a huge factor now because there's few people in HPP, but eventually this will become a factor unless HPP is an epic failure) and 2. HRC can book points inventory starting at 6 months out (maybe this is a win, but as far as the developer-owned inventory, didn't we always have access to that, potentially starting 12 months out?).

What makes you say that HPP owners can't access the same HRPP inventory at 12 months out that I can? Have you seen that rule in writing somewhere? Or have Hyatt tell you this is how it works?

 

[ivywag]

My concern is that at least thus far the inventory backing up the HPP is mostly developer unsold inventory---presumably the weeks nobody wanted to purchase. The HPP owners can now compete for the more desirable weeks in HRC thus making it more difficult for us to reserve those units. As someone else said- probably not a problem yet since there aren't many HPP owners, but when that program gets going the competition will increase unless some new very desirable properties are added to HPP decreasing the demand for the HRC units. Again, lots of speculation with no official information.

 

[bdh]

Am I understanding this correctly? HPP owners can book HRC units ( deeded fixed week) at 12 months out and HRC owners can book HPP units at 6 months? So, practically speaking, HPP owners will have an edge over us by 6 months in booking HRC units? What are the practical implications for HRC owners?

Where did you get this information? Because my understanding is that previously we HRC weeks owners could book units in HRPP starting at 12 months, if the unit was available. Now the changes are: 1. HPP pure points owners can also reserve HRPP units at 12 months out, so they compete with current owners for these units (admittedly not a huge factor now because there's few people in HPP, but eventually this will become a factor unless HPP is an epic failure) and 2. HRC can book points inventory starting at 6 months out (maybe this is a win, but as far as the developer-owned inventory, didn't we always have access to that, potentially starting 12 months out?).

What makes you say that HPP owners can't access the same HRPP inventory at 12 months out that I can? Have you seen that rule in writing somewhere? Or have Hyatt tell you this is how it works?

A HPP owner can NOT reserve an HRPP unit - only the owner of a deeded week can reserve their deeded week/unit. However once the owner of a deeded week converts their owned week/unit to CUP points by booking a different week or resort than what they own or lets their deeded week roll to CUP, their owned week/unit is available to any Hyatt owner - doesn't matter if the owner is a HRC or HPP. There is no advantage or disadvantage to an HRC owner or HPP owner once a deeded week/unit is moved from HRPP to CUP - once a unit is in CUP, it is available to anyone with points.

The only "advantage" a HPP owner has over a HRC owner is on units owned by Hyatt in the trust. That said, not much of an "advantage" as HRC didn't have access to those Hyatt owned units via a HRC reservation prior to the HPP program - Hyatt made those units available to anyone with cash as they'd put them into the worldwide Hyatt reservation system.

The advantage for HRC owners is that now the Hyatt trust owned units that are not reserved 6 months prior to check in date are now available to any HRC owner that has the points. The bigger the flop HPP is, the bigger the gain for HRC owners is.

 

[Sapper]

The bigger the flop HPP is, the bigger the gain for HRC owners is.

SO... not that the HPP needs any help failing, but what could we (as HRC owners) do to gain from the situation besides sitting back and watching? Please think of my question more akin to shorting a stock as opposed to pushing someone off a bridge.

When the board of directors at ILG, a publicly traded company, look at II's profit and loss sheet in a year, and see the monumental failure that is HPP, how are they going to unwind it? Prior to unwinding, will they offer fire sale pricing to existing HRC members? The HPP which have been sold are supposedly backed by a portfolio of units held in common form. Does II sell the units off, and just pay out the existing HPP owners?

Should I hold off looking at my next HRC resale in the hopes of a fire sale price from the developer when they attempt to unwind this mess?

 

[WalnutBaron]

There are a lot of assumptions built into your question, Sapper. But assuming HRP/HPP fails as utterly as you suggest, the sales weasels are going to have a lot of inventory to re-sell back through the developer market. I doubt they would institute a fire sale on those units unless they were really hurting for cash. What's going to be really interesting, in my opinion, is what they decide to do with the HRP owners. Unlike HRC owners, who have a deeded property, HRP owners own only points which give them access to the HRP inventory in the HRP trust. If Hyatt decides to now sell those unused HRP properties back through the HRC sales force, they will also have to deal with HRP points owners who would then have a dwindling number of weeks and choices to work with.

You're right: it's shaping up to be a real mess for ILG--and couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. As we used to say in a previous job of mine, "Pigs get fed; hogs get slaughtered." ILG's greed is going to be their undoing.

 

[Sapper]

There are a lot of assumptions built into your question, Sapper. But assuming HRP/HPP fails as utterly as you suggest, the sales weasels are going to have a lot of inventory to re-sell back through the developer market. I doubt they would institute a fire sale on those units unless they were really hurting for cash. What's going to be really interesting, in my opinion, is what they decide to do with the HRP owners. Unlike HRC owners, who have a deeded property, HRP owners own only points which give them access to the HRP inventory in the HRP trust. If Hyatt decides to now sell those unused HRP properties back through the HRC sales force, they will also have to deal with HRP points owners who would then have a dwindling number of weeks and choices to work with.

You're right: it's shaping up to be a real mess for ILG--and couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. As we used to say in a previous job of mine, "Pigs get fed; hogs get slaughtered." ILG's greed is going to be their undoing.

True, but the assumptions have to be made to ask the questions. I do not know what Hyatt, II, ILG's carrying cost is on the unsold inventory. They have a sales force (employee) cost, marketing cost, and on and on. Their income, as I am sure they are selling some of the HRP/HPP points contracts, must be fairly low... I doubt enough to break even, much less make a healthy profit the board would expect, and share holders should demand. I think we have heard about some of that pain coming through in the form of more aggressive sales staff. They have a few options: Market more, increase incentives, keep the "exclusive" pricing. This would reduce their profit margin, though I doubt significantly. They may do this in the short term. Reduce the entry price for the HPP. This would reduce their profit margin, may irritate current owners who bought in at a higher price point, and may not fly. Make a significant adjustment in the program and roll in other II properties to increase the draw to the program. I have no idea how this would impact them financially. They may do this at some point, who knows. IF none of this works, and they start needing to make the bottom line look better in order to keep from loosing executive positions, I would think they would take some drastic measures, and either unwind the program some how, hold some kind of developer fire sale, or both.

 

[stover33]

In looking at the new site, I cannot seem to find anyplace where I can see my EEE points and when they expire. The total number of points is displayed at the top of the screen, but they have been deposited at different times so I am trying to see when each block of points expires. The old site had a member timeline that showed EEE year 1, EEE Year 2, etc. Does anyone know if this info is available on the new site? I looked everywhere but I may be missing it.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

We got a call in Tucson, actually numerous calls inviting us to a mtg, held at a local restaurant, for owners at Pinon Pointe to tell us about changes. We asked who the call was from and did not
get an answer just that they were 3rd party consultants who were hired to set it up? hmmm. We were offered free ipads , and something else-did not pay much attention to the gifts as we could not verify
what the deal/mtg was actually about. Has anyone else gotten calls. I know the H PP program is now in AZ but I never heard of them doing presentations in local cities? Has anyone else gotten similar calls?

 

[DAman]

In looking at the new site, I cannot seem to find anyplace where I can see my EEE points and when they expire. The total number of points is displayed at the top of the screen, but they have been deposited at different times so I am trying to see when each block of points expires. The old site had a member timeline that showed EEE year 1, EEE Year 2, etc. Does anyone know if this info is available on the new site? I looked everywhere but I may be missing it.

Log in. Look under My accounts. Then contracts. Then view details. In my account it tells me the EEE details for each contract. Hope that helps.

 

[stover33]

Log in. Look under My accounts. Then contracts. Then view details. In my account it tells me the EEE details for each contract. Hope that helps.

Awesome would have never found that, thank you!

 

[WalnutBaron]

We got a call in Tucson, actually numerous calls inviting us to a mtg, held at a local restaurant, for owners at Pinon Pointe to tell us about changes. We asked who the call was from and did not
get an answer just that they were 3rd party consultants who were hired to set it up? hmmm. We were offered free ipads , and something else-did not pay much attention to the gifts as we could not verify
what the deal/mtg was actually about. Has anyone else gotten calls. I know the H PP program is now in AZ but I never heard of them doing presentations in local cities? Has anyone else gotten similar calls?

I have not gotten the calls simply because I never answer calls anymore from phone numbers I do not recognize. The volume of trash calls has increased to the point that--if I wanted to--I could field those robocalls for several hours each evening.

A more direct answer to your question is this: Yes, I have heard of timeshare sales presentations being done in local cities. For a "free" cheap dinner and three hours of your time, you can get your arm twisted and your nose out of joint if you want the high pressure sales tactics of what could very likely be a scam. And anytime I hear the terms "3rd party consultants" and "timeshare" in the same sentence, I KNOW it's a scam. It's bad enough dealing with the 1st party sales weasels who are hired by the resort developer, but dealing with a 3rd party consultant sounds like as much fun as shaving with a sharp stick.

 

[DAman]

Awesome would have never found that, thank you!

The new site is not very intuitive. I had to search around to find it. The old site was much easier. I liked the member statement with all the contract information.

I found the new rules posted at the new website but I haven’t had the time to sit down and read them.

 

[Kal]

We got a call in Tucson, actually numerous calls inviting us to a mtg, held at a local restaurant, for owners at Pinon Pointe to tell us about changes. We asked who the call was from and did not
get an answer just that they were 3rd party consultants who were hired to set it up? hmmm. We were offered free ipads , and something else-did not pay much attention to the gifts as we could not verify
what the deal/mtg was actually about. Has anyone else gotten calls. I know the H PP program is now in AZ but I never heard of them doing presentations in local cities? Has anyone else gotten similar calls?

Definitely a scam to sell things. Generally they want to sell you more timeshares, but one is to give a pitch on how to get out of a timeshare.

 

[bdh]

The new site is not very intuitive. I had to search around to find it. The old site was much easier. I liked the member statement with all the contract information.

The old site's member statement with the listing of HRPP, CUP, LCUP, EEE point status and associated dates was extremely easy to read/understand. Hyatt has heard numerous comments/complaints with the new site on this topic - and are supposedly working on establishing a similar page on the new site.

 

[ivywag]

Is anyone else having trouble placing a request on the waitlist? Since the new website came online I have been unable to waitlist without calling in. I've tried both Safari and Firefox. Customer service just tells me that they are still working on the site. They walked me through the procedure to request, but it keeps telling me that the dates are invalid or the "get started" button will not light up and allow me to proceed. Please let me know if you're having a problem so I don't think that I'm technologically illiterate!!

 

[Sapper]

Is anyone else having trouble placing a request on the waitlist? Since the new website came online I have been unable to waitlist without calling in. I've tried both Safari and Firefox. Customer service just tells me that they are still working on the site. They walked me through the procedure to request, but it keeps telling me that the dates are invalid or the "get started" button will not light up and allow me to proceed. Please let me know if you're having a problem so I don't think that I'm technologically illiterate!!

I just made a wait request about an hour ago. I am using Internet Explorer. Everything seemed to work ok, I received a request number when I was finished.

 

[WalnutBaron]

Is anyone else having trouble placing a request on the waitlist? Since the new website came online I have been unable to waitlist without calling in. I've tried both Safari and Firefox. Customer service just tells me that they are still working on the site. They walked me through the procedure to request, but it keeps telling me that the dates are invalid or the "get started" button will not light up and allow me to proceed. Please let me know if you're having a problem so I don't think that I'm technologically illiterate!!

Have you cleared your cookies recently? If not, that could well be the problem.

 

[ivywag]

Have you cleared your cookies recently? If not, that could well be the problem.

I just tried clearing cookies. It didn't help, but thanks for trying!

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

As an HRC owner, If we can book a HPP unit at 6 months out, I am assuming that we can't book 3 days 6 days or 1 day?

 

[Sapper]

As an HRC owner, If we can book a HPP unit at 6 months out, I am assuming that we can't book 3 days 6 days or 1 day?

I was able to make (up to the last step of entering my credit card number) HPP reservations for 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 days under the HPP. A couple of weeks ago I was bored at work, and wanted to see how the new site worked. It was all for stuff that was with in two months or so. I just checked the site, and there is a large lack of availability everywhere in the system. Not sure what is going on.