New Marriott Rewards Property Categories and Travel Package Requirements effective Aug '18

[winger]

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-rewards/1403715-marriott-travel-packages-266.html


The following is a post on Flyertalk from this morning regarding unattached certificates:

Originally Posted by Starwood Lurker
Any outstanding awards for certificates with a pre-defined category (like Chase or MegaBonus promotional certificates) will be converted to a commensurate value with the new award schedule. Other floater certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption.

If you are asking for an exact conversion amount, all we can tell you is we are currently reviewing how to handle existing travel package awards already in members' accounts that remain unattached. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to maximize their usage as this may or may not be forthcoming before the programs merge.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts LLC

spgchampion@starwoodhotels.com

I am not 100% sure how this is going to work.

First, I am assuming 'floater certificates' are hotel/stay certificates that come as part of a Marriott Air/Hotel Travel Package.

From the quote above:

Other floater certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption.

As an illustration - on 7/25/2018 a Marriott Rewards member purchases a Air/Hotel Travel Package and receives a 7-night Category 8 hotel certificate that expires in one year. He has not cleared all reasonable hurdles yet (like approval from his boss, make childcare arrangements with relatives on the other coast, etc.) to be able to make a hotel reservation to attach the Cat 8 certificate to, so he leaves the hotel certificate sitting all alone in his Rewards account. Come Aug 1, 2018, Marriott comes along and turns the Category 8 hotel certificate, easily worth at least $1400 in stays) and something Marriott thinks is 'equivalent points' ??? What if the equivalent points does not even equate to more than two nights a higher end hotel equivalent to today's Category 8 ? Marriott will have one PO'd Rewards customer, to say the least. Marriott has just taken five (5) nights stay in a higher end hotel from him !

Maybe I am interpreting this wrong, but the words "certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption." makes it sound equivalent to today's world (pre-8/1/2018) where a Rewards member with an Air/Hotel Travel Package calls Marriott Rewards and asks to "cancel" his hotel/stay certificate, which which case a small amount of points, not even close to booking an equivalent 7-nights Category 8 hotel stay, would be

credited to the member’s account for future redemption.

However, if the Rewards member rather keeps the hotel/stay certificate, he retains rights to book a 7-night stay in a higher end (Category 8) hotel, for at least that full year.

Something does not sound right with the quote above from this Starbook Lurker.

 

[jeff76543]

For what it's worth, I just had an online chat with a Marriott Representative about a reservation with the hotel part of a 5 night travel package. I asked her specifically whether after August 1 it would be possible to change the date of the reservation when it is attached to a hotel award certificate without losing the hotel certificate. She said that in such a case the hotel certificate would be reapplied to the new date. I asked her if this was a guarantee from Marriott and whether I could copy the chat and use it as a guarantee and she said that I could.

 

[winger]

For what it's worth, I just had an online chat with a Marriott Representative about a reservation with the hotel part of a 5 night travel package. I asked her specifically whether after August 1 it would be possible to change the date of the reservation when it is attached to a hotel award certificate without losing the hotel certificate. She said that in such a case the hotel certificate would be reapplied to the new date. I asked her if this was a guarantee from Marriott and whether I could copy the chat and use it as a guarantee and she said that I could.

FWIW, when Hyatt underwent a devaluation last year, I had a room booked with points prior to the devalation. After the devaluation, I called to make a date change (pushed it out one day) and was charged more points. Along the same line of thought, if a certificate were worth say Category 6 today (30k/night) and used to make a reservation before 8/1/2018, if making a date change after 8/1/2018 and if the point/night requirement has increased, I would think Marriott would want more points for the updated reservation.

 

[jeff76543]

@winger What you say makes more sense than what I was told by the Marriott representative - but, for what it's worth, I have it in writing (which may not be worth very much). The specific hotel I was looking at does not change it's point value, but I can't be sure whether she knew this.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not 100% sure how this is going to work.

First, I am assuming 'floater certificates' are hotel/stay certificates that come as part of a Marriott Air/Hotel Travel Package.

From the quote above:


As an illustration - on 7/25/2018 a Marriott Rewards member purchases a Air/Hotel Travel Package and receives a 7-night Category 8 hotel certificate that expires in one year. He has not cleared all reasonable hurdles yet (like approval from his boss, make childcare arrangements with relatives on the other coast, etc.) to be able to make a hotel reservation to attach the Cat 8 certificate to, so he leaves the hotel certificate sitting all alone in his Rewards account. Come Aug 1, 2018, Marriott comes along and turns the Category 8 hotel certificate, easily worth at least $1400 in stays) and something Marriott thinks is 'equivalent points' ??? What if the equivalent points does not even equate to more than two nights a higher end hotel equivalent to today's Category 8 ? Marriott will have one PO'd Rewards customer, to say the least. Marriott has just taken five (5) nights stay in a higher end hotel from him !

Maybe I am interpreting this wrong, but the words "certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption." makes it sound equivalent to today's world (pre-8/1/2018) where a Rewards member with an Air/Hotel Travel Package calls Marriott Rewards and asks to "cancel" his hotel/stay certificate, which which case a small amount of points, not even close to booking an equivalent 7-nights Category 8 hotel stay, would be

However, if the Rewards member rather keeps the hotel/stay certificate, he retains rights to book a 7-night stay in a higher end (Category 8) hotel, for at least that full year.

Something does not sound right with the quote above from this Starbook Lurker.

Perhaps equivalent number of points is # times the number of nights. So if it is a cat five, it is 30,000 per night currently. 30,000 times 5 is 150,000 points that they would convert it to. Somehow I doubt they will do that since it would mean someone could have got 120,000 air miles from a TP for only 80,000 MRP.

 

[jeff76543]

I find it strange that the Starwood Lurker has been the only hotel affiliated social media individual to give information about "floating certificates" and that no Marriott spokesman (for example the Community Managers on Marriott Rewards Insiders) have stated more than "no final decision has been made about the future status of the hotel portion of travel awards ... stay tuned". Could there be a different status for Starwood "floating certificates" after August 1 than for Marriott "floating certificates"? - or can anyone suggest a plausible reason for this strange situation.

 

[VacationForever]

Perhaps equivalent number of points is # times the number of nights. So if it is a cat five, it is 30,000 per night currently. 30,000 times 5 is 150,000 points that they would convert it to. Somehow I doubt they will do that since it would mean someone could have got 120,000 air miles from a TP for only 80,000 MRP.

I doubt they will do that either. But if they were to do so, for Cat 1-5, it would be 25K (current cat 5 value) times 4, since 5th night is free, making it 100K MRPs, but still it will be quite deal to have gotten 120K air miles for 135K MRPs.

 

[winger]

I doubt they will do that either. But if they were to do so, for Cat 1-5, it would be 25K (current cat 5 value) times 4, since 5th night is free, making it 100K MRPs, but still it will be quite deal to have gotten 120K air miles for 135K MRPs.

So to make things more complex, what if one gets a TP today that comes with a 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate & attaches it to a Cat 8 hotel for July 2019, a hotel that were going UP in cost (MRPs/night) come 8/1/2018? Then due to work, he cancels the hotel reservation in June 2019 AND needs to extend the expiration date. Under today's Program rules, this situation would yield an unused 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate expiring June 2020. How will this situation be handled post Merger (8/1/2018) rules?

I wonder if Marriott has really thoroughly thought out all the possible scenarios and how members are 'kept whole'?

 

[TXTortoise]

I thought I had a final plan to book three Cat 1-5, one Cat 7 and one Cat 8, all 5 day to max FF miles, while hedging categories; now you guys have me revisiting doing all Cat 1-5 and just consider the TP as gravy as they will be unattached.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

So to make things more complex, what if one gets a TP today that comes with a 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate & attaches it to a Cat 8 hotel for July 2019, a hotel that were going UP in cost (MRPs/night) come 8/1/2018? Then due to work, he cancels the hotel reservation in June 2019 AND needs to extend the expiration date. Under today's Program rules, this situation would yield an unused 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate expiring June 2020. How will this situation be handled post Merger (8/1/2018) rules?

I wonder if Marriott has really thoroughly thought out all the possible scenarios and how members are 'kept whole'?

Trust me. They have certainly thought it through. They would not be changing the entire category structure without a plan to handle the existing reservations and certificates. There really aren’t that many scenarios. Attached or unattached. Old cat and new cat. Convert to new cat or refund points.

 

[Jwerking]

Thanks Tuggers for the heads up. Just completed burning our 1.16 MR points by booking multiple TPS and made hotel reservations for Moscow, St Petersburg, and Brussels for May 2019 and German Xmas Market reservations for my two daughters for Dec 2018. Booked our AA award seats to Moscow and waiting for our Alaska miles to post to book return flights. While the May trip will be a nice trip, don't know if it worth the $$ of maintenance fees we paid to accumulate all those MR points as the Russia and German hotels booked are cheap. But it is done!

 

[winger]

Trust me. They have certainly thought it through. They would not be changing the entire category structure without a plan to handle the existing reservations and certificates. There really aren’t that many scenarios. Attached or unattached. Old cat and new cat. Convert to new cat or refund points.

I came across this this morning. It seems maybe Marriott/Starwood has not completed some of the finer details their plans, yet - practicing some plan-as-you-go.

From my various readings and conversation with two Marriott Loyalty Care reps last week when purchasing TP's, "Floater certificates" refer to unattached hotel stay certificates.

From https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29995288-post3978.html

<The colored text and underlining is mine to highlight text.>

Given this post from William this morning (10:55 CDT a.m. on July 20), it seems highly unlikely to me that floater TP certificates are going to be converted to anything other than points in the new program. Speculation about them be converted to other kinds of certificates seems to be wrong.

Originally Posted by Starwood Lurker
Any outstanding awards for certificates with a pre-defined category (like Chase or MegaBonus promotional certificates) will be converted to a commensurate value with the new award schedule. Other floater certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption.

If you are asking for an exact conversion amount, all we can tell you is we are currently reviewing how to handle existing travel package awards already in members' accounts that remain unattached. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to maximize their usage as this may or may not be forthcoming before the programs merge.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts LLC

spgchampion@starwoodhotels.com

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I came across this this morning. It seems maybe Marriott/Starwood has not completed some of the finer details their plans, yet - practicing some plan-as-you-go.

From my various readings and conversation with two Marriott Loyalty Care reps last week when purchasing TP's, "Floater certificates" refer to unattached hotel stay certificates.

From https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29995288-post3978.html

<The colored text and underlining is mine to highlight text.>

In other words, they don't know or won't say. Same story.

 

[BigMac]

yet another opinion on what might happen to travel packages from the Frequent Miler today.
https://frequentmiler.boardingarea....xisting-marriott-travel-package-certificates/

 

[Fasttr]

To attach or unattach....that is the question!!!! Which tis nobler in the mind to suffer?

 

[NiteMaire]

I agree but I got the miles that I wanted and any MRP refund is just gravy.

Exactly why I did the same...

 

[jpa2825]

yet another opinion on what might happen to travel packages from the Frequent Miler today.
https://frequentmiler.boardingarea....xisting-marriott-travel-package-certificates/

60% is more optimistic than I would be. The factor they don't seem to take into account (or they took it into consideration but just don't think it means much) is that breaking 7 night stay certs into points makes redemption much easier / more likely. The circumstance where I need 7 straight nights at the SAME Cat5 hotel is much smaller than the ways I can use 150,000 MRPs! I can't see Marriott being generous and unlocking those handcuffs.

From the article, I think mapping to the new TP Categories is the way they will go because it doesn't unlock them. (Also, there will be so many moving parts that only the most dedicated folks are going to see the "gaps" they created.)

• 1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively.
• 6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• 8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
• 9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
• They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.

 

[Superchief]

I think the simplest solution for everyone is to 'grandfather' the TP hotel certificates to be used at the current category/point levels for hotels until the expiration date of the certificate. This would eliminate the complexity of TP MR assigned point values. This same policy could also be applied to the standard hotel certificates. The current point charts could be kept on the website for 1 year after the implementation of changes. Certificates would not be able to be extended. I think this would be a fair compromise and minimize complexity.

There really is no downside to attaching a certificate to a reservation, since it can always be cancelled or changed. This will lock in the current value of the certificate in case Marriott decides to be 'meanies' with their new policy.

 

[StevenTing]

I just prepaid some MF's to increase my balance so I can get another 5 night TP with 100k miles. I'm contemplating prepaying another $3300 so that I can get the full 120k miles.

I'm currently at 172k points. I should be closer to 215K once the transaction posts but now that I'm looking at my Marriott account, it looks like the points may not post until my statement closing date (the 20th). I think I need to call MVC now to see if I can "borrow" points for the TP.

 

[kds4]

60% is more optimistic than I would be. The factor they don't seem to take into account (or they took it into consideration but just don't think it means much) is that breaking 7 night stay certs into points makes redemption much easier / more likely. The circumstance where I need 7 straight nights at the SAME Cat5 hotel is much smaller than the ways I can use 150,000 MRPs! I can't see Marriott being generous and unlocking those handcuffs.

From the article, I think mapping to the new TP Categories is the way they will go because it doesn't unlock them. (Also, there will be so many moving parts that only the most dedicated folks are going to see the "gaps" they created.)

• 1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively.
• 6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• 8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
• 9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
• They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.

The best arbitrage option for me, applying the theorized data above, is to purchase 6 Category 6 packages. This will maximize my FF miles accrued as well as net me a 30k MRP "benefit" if the ACs map as described above. Dropping down and buying 6 Category 5 packages would only produce a savings of 90k points (which would not be enough to purchase a 7th TP). Purchasing Category 7 or higher TPs would result in a lesser amount of FF miles (even if it did produce a higher "benefit" amount based on ultimately mapping up). The FF miles are a 'known', the 5k-15k/nt. "benefits" remain an 'unknown'.

 

[TXTortoise]

With 1.1M MRPs I have a few Cat options, but essentially am limited to 4 TPs and the resulting FF miles.
I expect all will be unattached, unless I go with #4

1. 4x Cat 6
2. 2x Cat 5 & 2x Cat 7
3. 3x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 8
4. 2x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 7 & 1x Cat 9 London (This requires a 35K transfer from URs and is only because I've thought about trying for a London Cat 9 next May)
- Note it's taking over two days for a 10K UR transfer to move to Marriott. Still waiting.

With the exception of #4, the cost spread on these is less than 10K MRPs.

Using JPA's projection, and not attaching, it would seem the four Cat 6s offer the arbitrage, as KDS noted.
Then I get the new Marriott card in Dec (Chase eligible) and hope I have 75K MRPs to upgrade the TPs trips, as needed, I suppose.
(How to split FF between AA and United is a whole other issue for me, unfortunately.)

JPA's Scenario...

• 1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively.
• 6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• 8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
• 9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
• They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.

 

[kds4]

With 1.1M MRPs I have a few Cat options, but essentially am limited to 4 TPs and the resulting FF miles.
I expect all will be unattached, unless I go with #4

1. 4x Cat 6
2. 2x Cat 5 & 2x Cat 7
3. 3x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 8
4. 2x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 7 & 1x Cat 9 London (This requires a 35K transfer from URs and is only because I've thought about trying for a London Cat 9 next May)
- Note it's taking over two days for a 10K UR transfer to move to Marriott. Still waiting.

With the exception of #4, the cost spread on these is less than 10K MRPs.

Using JPA's projection, and not attaching, it would seem the four Cat 6s offer the arbitrage, as KDS noted.
Then I get the new Marriott card in Dec (Chase eligible) and hope I have 75K MRPs to upgrade the TPs trips, as needed, I suppose.
(How to split FF between AA and United is a whole other issue for me, unfortunately.)

JPA's Scenario...

• 1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively.
• 6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• 8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
• 9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
• Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
• They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.

Depending on which part of the travel package you value higher (FF miles or the Accommodation Certificates), you could consider ordering 5 of the 5 night Category 1-5 packages with 100k miles at 215k each for a total of 1,075,000 MRPs. This would produce 20k more FF miles overall (500k versus 480k from the 4 TPs - Not considering the 10% United bonus) as well as 5 additional nights based on the 5th AC.

 

[jpa2825]

I am still baffled by the # of people wanting to convert all / huge chunks of their MRPs into FF miles and 5 / 7 night certificates. I guess the theory is "I can continue to earn MRPs as I travel and spend $ on the credit cards beyond AUG 1, but (based on their announcement making TPs MUCH less attractive post 8-1) I can't get that "value" of FF miles and certs after 8.1." Additionally, if Frequent Miler is right, those unattached certs may come back to me in points after 8.1 anyway and I will have gotten a good / reasonable / acceptable conversion factor for my FF miles + those returned points.

I'm tapped out on my FF miles (sold 146k to my son for him to fly to Italy this summer at $.01 per mile [aren't I generous? - it was still well below what he could pay cash for the same flights]), so I'm thinking about getting a couple of TPs with about half of my current MRP balance.

 

[winger]

I am still baffled by the # of people wanting to convert all / huge chunks of their MRPs into FF miles and 5 / 7 night certificates. ....

with yet another reevaluation looming, what reason would anyone NOT want to cash out now? This is not like an investment with a good history of increasing values (like real estate) where decreases in value are temporary and holding on is a good strategy. MRPs are a different animal, decreases are permanent, thus there is no long term reason to hord/hold these. MRPs are fast becoming pesos.

 

[VacationForever]

I have used up all my MRPs and SPG points to convert to travel packages. I did not elect my Vistana and Marriott timeshare weeks for SPG/MRP for 2019 weeks as I normally do because I just don't see myself wanting to book anymore TP after August 2018. My credit card spendings will continue to slowly generate more points but I don't have plans to book any additional Marriott/SPG hotels for the next 2 years beyond what I have already booked and attached and I still have 2 Cat1-5 floaters, which I am hoping that Marriott will cancel and return points to me. I see significant devaluation of Marriott points wrt mileage redemption after August 2018.