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Nanea TS vs. Kierland Trader?

Discussion in 'Vistana Signature Experiences (formerly Starwood)' started by celica7101, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    Hi there,

    First time poster here. I just took a trip to Maui and stayed at WKORV and had a great time. Was looking for a hotel/villa resort with pools for the littles and close beach access (in addition to the condo-style unit). Historically, we've gone to Hawaii every other year with my wife since we've been married. Opted for this instead of an AirBNB due to the kind of pools (and number) that were available here. While there, my wife elected to get a free signup for listening to the timeshare spiel, and we went to the presentation being offered for Nanea. We took the tour, heard the lady out, and then opted to decline it (the first inventory manager was kind of a jerk).

    After discussing it a bit afterwards, I had some second thoughts on declining, and we went back to the office around 4:50PM, so most of the people in the sales office were gone. We started the paperwork on a EOY 2BR in Nanea (148,100 star options). However, like many, I suspect, I hadn't done quite enough homework and now I'm well versed in mandatory vs. voluntary resorts after reading many of the threads here on TUG.

    So now I'm in a bit of an interesting position as they're preparing the paperwork for a mail-out on Monday. I can elect to decline without any penalties (or even needing to get a refund!) since they haven't actually charged my credit card for the new money deposit. I'd need to send in my CC info and sign all of the paperwork and mail/fax it back to them in order to complete the transaction and begin the rescission period/7-day-grace period. However, after doing said research, I'm debating whether or not it makes sense to instead try and pick up two gold-season units at Kierland to get an equivalent number of star options every year (instead of EOY) to be able to still stay at Nanea / WKORV / Princeville and other places. Plus the MF's are about half as much.

    The things that are holding me back:
    sign-up bonus (100k SPG points, 4 x 90k SPG points at $1875)
    SPG conversion ability.
    Does that 12-8 month window make a difference?

    Since Nanea is voluntary, I'd have the ability to convert to SPG points if desired. I have little interest in trying to acquire elite status in Vistana at present, so if I bought resale, I wouldn't be able to convert to SPG points, though I suppose I could attempt a re-qual.

    (Does anyone know if they are still selling developer units at Kierland in order to attempt a requal for a resale unit there?)

    I realize that conversion is not usually a first-line option, but it's nice to have in my pocket. My family does a fair bit of traveling and it would be nice to have access to Marriott properties in addition to SPG ones when we're going to areas that are not well served by the 19 VSE properties (which is a good amount of the time).

    As far as the owner window for the home resort, I booked this trip to WKORV 3-4 months ago, so it feels like the availability should be there if I were to buy a Kierland trader unit and wanted to go to Hawaii.

    So, to re-cap:
    1) Any thoughts on the re-sale vs. developer unit dilemma? Obviously somewhat price sensitive here but willing to spend on the developer unit if the perks trade-off well.
    2) Does the 12-8 month home-option window make a difference?
    3) Since we didn't get the paperwork in writing cause it was so late (in the day), how many star points would the 2BR Nanea convert to? If WKORV is any indication, seems like 80k?
    4) Do you have to buy another timeshare at the same property to support a re-qual?
     
  2. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    OK, I'm sure I'm not the first poster, but I'll give it a shot: NO

    Do NOT buy into Nanea. Buy resale, but there is much more to know....

    Just to be clear, you haven't purchased, correct? Don't buy anything until you're more educated.
     
  3. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    Let me address your points:
    I booked this trip to WKORV 3-4 months ago, so it feels like the availability should be there if I were to buy a Kierland trader unit and wanted to go to Hawaii.

    In a word: NO. The WSJ (St John) and WKORV/N properties a very coveted during whale season (Jan-Mar) and summer months. The reservations can be difficult to get at 12 months (depends on the unit type) and, for obvious reasons, 'fly off the shelf' at 8 months if there any available. If you were specifically planning to go to Maui every year (or every other year) then you should purchase a WKORV/N unit. These units are too costly (purchase, but mainly MF's) to trade or not use; they have good rental value as well. So, if you want to go to Maui EOY, then buy an EOY unit. With a school schedule use...this is about the only option that will makes sense IMO.

    Welcome to TUG, you'll get lots of info and help. There are many solutions to your vacation needs....just take the time to choose carefully.

    In closing: Don't buy from the developer. Don't buy resale until you understand what your needs and goals are. Don't buy too quickly...you'll end up with the wrong ownership.

    Buy once, buy smart.
    Consider joining TUG....it's the best $15 you'll spend!
     
  4. bizaro86

    bizaro86 TUG Member

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    Two things. If you're going to buy Kierland, it usually makes sense to buy platinum and not gold. The maintenance is the same, but you get way more star options.

    Second, cash availability isn't the same as staroption availability at all. You'd be very lucky to get staroption availability during the summer, and would definitely need to book at exactly 8 months at midnight.

    Maybe consider an eoy resale at one of the original Maui resorts?
     
    taterhed likes this.
  5. vacationtime1

    vacationtime1 TUG Member

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    148100 StarOptions at Nanea is a "Resort View"; that can translate to a parking lot view. Is that what you want?

    I would suggest that you consider purchasing an ocean front unit at WKORV or WKORVN. Cost will be $25K-$35K total for an annual unit, MF's are lower than Nanea, your view would be guaranteed, and you could reserve twelve months out. There are eoy ocean front units at WKORVN (also at WKORV, but they are rare and often overpriced).

    Take your time. It's easy to buy these things but much harder to sell them. And prices are not going up.
     
  6. canesfan

    canesfan TUG Member

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    Do not buy from the developer. Just from your questions, it is clear that you still have more research to do. Welcome to TUG!

    1) The developer trade off is never worth it with Vistana. SPG conversion (or whatever it’s name will be) is not a good deal you are better to pay cash for your hotel room vs MF is Hawaii.
    You are much better off buying resale at WKORVN EOY if you want Hawaii. Save that developer money for hotel rooms for other trips!
    2) If you want to go to Hawaii during summer months and whale season, the 12 month reservation helps a lot. There are rooms available but you need to make reservations at exactly 8 months.
    Not sure how you made your reservation at 3-4 months but hotel inventory is different.
    3) Staroptions 2 bedroom for all three properties are the same 148k. If you want Oceanfront it’s 176K. Hawaii doesn’t have seasons.
    4) To do a requal it just needs to be a Vistana resort. It seems the new money varies on the property that you are bringing to the table and buying.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. PamMo

    PamMo Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    The things that are holding me back:

    sign-up bonus (100k SPG points, 4 x 90k SPG points at $1875) Factor in the purchase price of Nanea to see how much those SPG points really cost you!

    SPG conversion ability. Most owners won't convert StarOptions to SPG points (soon to be MRP points) because it's not a good value - especially for resorts with high MF's.

    Does that 12-8 month window make a difference? YES!!! There is intense competition to get prime whale watching and school break weeks. I have to be online at midnight twelve months out to get my oceanfront units booked. If I wait until morning (sometimes even fifteen minutes after booking opens up!) all the units are gone.

    Since Nanea is voluntary, I'd have the ability to convert to SPG points if desired. I have little interest in trying to acquire elite status in Vistana at present, so if I bought resale, I wouldn't be able to convert to SPG points, though I suppose I could attempt a re-qual. Or, learn to play the points game with credit card bonuses, promotions, etc. Again, converting StarOptions to Marriott Rewards Points is not the best way to use your timeshare.

    (Does anyone know if they are still selling developer units at Kierland in order to attempt a requal for a resale unit there?) Sales is all about the Flex (Hawaii, Westin, Sheraton, Mexico) programs now. If you want Kierland, buy a Platinum 2BR resale.

    I realize that conversion is not usually a first-line option, but it's nice to have in my pocket. My family does a fair bit of traveling and it would be nice to have access to Marriott properties in addition to SPG ones when we're going to areas that are not well served by the 19 VSE properties (which is a good amount of the time). If you own Maui (especially a deeded ocean view), you're better off renting your week and using the money to stay wherever you want. Loyalty points are constantly devalued.

    As far as the owner window for the home resort, I booked this trip to WKORV 3-4 months ago, so it feels like the availability should be there if I were to buy a Kierland trader unit and wanted to go to Hawaii. Not true at all. Like taterhed and bizaro86 wrote, Maui availability at 3-4 months out would be rare in the Vistana network.

    So, to re-cap:

    1) Any thoughts on the re-sale vs. developer unit dilemma? Obviously somewhat price sensitive here but willing to spend on the developer unit if the perks trade-off well. Buy resale AFTER you've thoroughly researched and thought about what you really want. Salespeople make such a good case for ownership, but it never works out the way they tell you it will!!!! Timesharing has a steep learning curve, but you can get a lot of help here on TUG!

    2) Does the 12-8 month home-option window make a difference? ABSOLUTELY for prime weeks in Hawaii, Harborside, St. John...

    3) Since we didn't get the paperwork in writing cause it was so late (in the day), how many star points would the 2BR Nanea convert to? If WKORV is any indication, seems like 80k? Not sure how many MRP's you'll be able to get with 148,100 StarOptions. It's way easier and more cost effective to get MRP's with a new credit card bonus!

    4) Do you have to buy another timeshare at the same property to support a re-qual? No, you do not. You have to buy a Flex package. Why would you want to requalify a mandatory resort? If you buy a mandatory resort (like Maui or Kierland), you already have StarOptions to book any resort in the system. Most people requalify a cheap non-mandatory resale week to get StarOptions and/or reach Elite level.

    I hope I've given you some useful advice. Best of luck with your decision! But, I hope you wait, do more research, and find a resale if you still believe timesharing is a good fit for you and your family.
     
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  8. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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  9. DavidnRobin

    DavidnRobin TUG Member

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    Rescind
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  10. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    Thanks for the message but as I stated, there is no need to rescind.

     
  11. rickandcindy23

    rickandcindy23 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    You can sign up for a Starwood credit card right now and get 100K points. The thing is, 100K points are not what they used to be. It's going to be 50K points per night for a hotel room at the Westin Ka'anapali next to Leilani's.

    I would buy resale, but you already got that. And don't forget the hefty annual fees for Westin Maui Mandatory as opposed to Westin Kierland Mandatory. That would make a difference for me. But you aren't guaranteed to get exactly what you want, if you don't buy what you want.

    If you must have the luxury of Westin, but you want to budget, WKV is better to buy than the Maui resorts. But if you want that oceanfront guarantee every year, at the time of year you want to go, then it's got to be one of the mandatory Westins on Maui.

    Nanea is going to have TERRIBLE resale value. Moronic decision to make it voluntary. Westin Princevile is the perfect example of that.

    Also, for traveling to other properties, buy a resale week in addition to your resale week. Buy specifically at a resort in the VSE system and use it for trading through II. Sheraton Broadway Plantation is a lovely resort, so is Sheraton Desert Oasis, and both have very reasonable maintenance fees and great trading power. You can get some great weeks with those two. Those are pretty much FREE. Sometimes you get free use of those weeks.

    I traded into Westin Ka'anapali south towers for our son and his wife and baby for 2/23 and 3/2. They will definitely get island view, maybe parking lot view, but they have a studio with washer/dryer and most of a kitchen, no oven. I used a studio at SBP to get each one of those weeks. Total cost, less than $600 per week.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  12. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    Thanks for the feedback here.

    It wasn't clear to me what the availability is like for WKORV/Nanea between 12 months and 8 months out, especially around whale season and in the summertime.

    I was hoping to engage in property arbitrage by "buying low" at Kierland vs. the EOY in Nanea, but it sounds like you're suggesting that may not work out the way that I am hoping it will. The other reason I was looking at Kierland is that I was trying to avoid the hassle of getting ROFR'd when buying a resale at WKORV, in addition to avoiding the higher-cost MFs if I was planning to use it to trade around some of the time.

    For what alternative properties is Kierland a good "trader"?



     
  13. rickandcindy23

    rickandcindy23 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    Our daughter has a t-shirt business. She just designed us t-shirts with this for our Maui trip. Fourth line is Sleep happy! She added the tug2.net on the shirt. I had a business card I used to give out at the pool. I decided this shirt was an easier way to say what I want. We have them in two colors for Hawaii, and a palm tree, of course.
     
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  14. PamMo

    PamMo Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    A 2BR Platinum Kierland unit is a great Vistana trader, celica7101. The buy-in and MF's are less than Maui, and the resale value has held up well. Kierland's 148,100 StarOptions will work to get into Hawaii if you are somewhat flexible on travel dates. You will not get a guaranteed ocean view unless you use more SO's. You can guarantee an oceanfront unit (if it's available) if you use 95,700 for a 1BR, 81,000 for a studio, or 176,100 for a 2BR. Some other Tuggers like the Vistana Village mandatory timeshares for trading in the network. They are cheap to buy resale (some people give them away).

    Besides getting into all the Vistana resorts, Kierland can be rented during baseball's spring training, or use your Interval account (included with MF's) to trade into two weeks elsewhere. I've used my Sheraton Desert Oasis weeks (split my 2BR into two 1BR units and deposited in Interval) for 2-4BR stays in fantastic resorts. WKORV, WKORVN, WPORV, Harborside, Hyatt Beaver Creek, Hyatt Sedona, Marriott Maui, Four Seasons Residence Club, Grand Luxxe Residence, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  15. Ken555

    Ken555 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    WKV is great. I’ve used my 148k week to go to Maui almost every year since 2006. I book at eight months and rarely have difficulty finding availability. Typically I’m there in March or September but I’ve also visited during other times. If you need to go during school holidays, you will have more difficulty.


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  16. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    How flexible is flexible? I don't need to go a certain week but we would like to be able to go sometime in July or August every year or every other year.


     
  17. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    Thanks @Ken555

    This seems to suggest that my original plan is solid and that the reduced MFs are a good trade to be able to go to Maui every year?

    Have you encountered what taterhead / PamMo have said regarding availability being difficult once it gets to the 8 month mark?

    I understand that the rental situation may be different but I am having a hard time reconciling that the property (Nanea / WKORV) would prefer renters over owners, albeit owners at other properties if there are rooms available.


     
  18. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    I'm sure that the developers did not have the resale market in mind when they decided to make Nanea voluntary. Seems like they prefer it, since they can buy the resale units on the cheap, then turn them around and re-sell as Flex


     
  19. Ken555

    Ken555 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    It works for me.

    School holidays are the most difficult to obtain. I don’t like traveling during that time, so typically don’t book it. Spring vacations are not consistent, tho, so always is an issue in March.

    This has nothing to do with availability for StarOptions reservations.


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  20. Ken555

    Ken555 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    They absolutely wanted it voluntary.


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  21. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    You have to understand how the inventory management works. Owner inventory and rental inventory are in two totally separate buckets. Owner stays (including StarOptions stays) come from the inventory that has been sold, and owners/VSE members have first-come-first-served access rights to that inventory at 12/8 months. Rental inventory is inventory controlled by the developer, and they can do whatever they want with that. It can be unsold weeks, but it is also weeks that owners may have exchanged for SPG points or other uses. Vistana has to pay the hotel company that runs the SPG program (originally Starwood, now Marriott International) for those SPG points that the owner gets when they decide to swap their week for points, so Vistana then rents those weeks to recoup that out of pocket cost. So that is why there may be no owner inventory for a specific date, but you can go onto Westin.com and book a unit. The inventory pools are totally separate.
     
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  22. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

     
  23. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

    I think I'm now leaning towards an annual 2BR OFC or OFD at WKORV in order to get the 12 month window and also be able to use the rest of the VSE network. Price is about 10-15k less than the developer-sold Nanea option and I get to use it every year instead of EOY.


     
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  24. Ken555

    Ken555 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    That's a great unit but I would never trade it as it's one of the best and most valuable units you can buy in the network. Trading for anything is trading down. Consider renting those years you don't want to use instead.


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  25. celica7101

    celica7101 TUG Member

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    I got my big sales packet with the big developer price tag. I guess I won't be sending it back in, signed.
     

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