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MVC Owner Update for Sheraton Owner

Discussion in 'Marriott Vacation Club' started by teddyo333, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. teddyo333

    teddyo333 TUG Member

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    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Resorts Owned:
    Vistana:
    Westin Kierland
    WKORV - OV
    Desert Oasis (x5)
    Vistana Villages - Bella
    Vistana Villages - Key West
    Sheraton Broadway Plantation
    Marriott:
    Marriott's Sunset Pointe
    My wife and I just attended a Owner update at the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve and was proposed the following:

    Option 1
    2000 Points
    Trade in (1) Marriott SunSet Pointe (Not enrolled - Purchased resale for $600 post 2010)
    Total Cost Before Trade-In: $28520
    -$4320 (SunSet Pointe Trade-In)
    -$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
    $23401 (New Money and will include 2000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

    Option 2
    1000 Points
    Total Cost: $14260
    -$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
    $13461 (New Money and will include 1000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

    The sale rep told us that there would be a range of points that would be associated with each of our current Sheraton/Westin properties and that would equate to 25K to 35K total points based on the properties we own (point conversion would only occur upon request and would not affect Star Options). This would qualify us for Chairman's status. He also stated that the properties that were even purchased via resale would qualify for this benefit as long as they were purchased prior to the new program being announce in 2020.

    We would have been all over this for 1000 points if it were backed up with documentation. The sales rep took our information and stated that he would contact us as soon as the documentation becomes available. This would be a win for Marriott in regards to new money and for property owners for access to new properties. Here's hope there is some truth to this but still happy with what we already have if everything stays the same.
     
  2. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    I’m assuming this is all based on your current ownerships. I wonder how he came up with the 25-35K DC point figure.
     
  3. SeaDoc

    SeaDoc TUG Member

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    Location:
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    Resorts Owned:
    CClub: 2 Marriott Newport Coasts-PLAT;
    2 Marriott Shadow Ridge Villages-PLAT;
    1 Marriott Desert Springs I-Red;
    1 Marriott Timber Lodge - Summer-PLAT;
    3 StarElite: 2 Westin Lagunamar-PLAT
    Remain skeptical, get in writing!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Fredflintstone and Steve Fatula like this.
  4. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    Destination Club Trust
    HGVC:
    HGVC at Sea World
    Interesting tactic with Option 1. Typically for a 2000 point purchase, MVC has traditionally offered a 15% or more discount off of the list price (in this case $14.26/point). But instead of just offering you the discount they have always offered, they are giving you 15% off in exchange for your Sunset Pointe week. So, you would essentially be giving them your week for free based on their past pricing strategy of offering an at least 15% discount off list to most buyers. If this is their new tactic to reacquire deeded weeks, I'm not impressed.
     
    Steve Fatula likes this.
  5. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    Destination Club Trust
    HGVC:
    HGVC at Sea World
    I would be quite surprised if, this far out from program announcement, local sales reps have been informed of any actual conversion values of VSE weeks into the hypothetical new program. Since the OP's weeks are pretty much in places where MVC also has resorts, my suspicion is the sales rep was just using the current values in the MVC system for similar resorts and estimating the potential value of the OP's ownership. That's my guess, at least.
     
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  6. teddyo333

    teddyo333 TUG Member

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    Location:
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    Resorts Owned:
    Vistana:
    Westin Kierland
    WKORV - OV
    Desert Oasis (x5)
    Vistana Villages - Bella
    Vistana Villages - Key West
    Sheraton Broadway Plantation
    Marriott:
    Marriott's Sunset Pointe
    Yes this is bas e on the existing properties we own. We have 11 properties total. Most in Scottsdale and one in Hawaii
     
    CPNY likes this.
  7. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    It makes me laugh that the sales rep “thinks” his current ownerships would be worth 25-35K and he’s trying to sell him 2K more for 30 thousand dollars lol. Is 2K points really going to make a difference adding on to 35K points?! His “lying” approach should have been something like you have to buy into the DC now to possibly have your current VSE weeks worth 35K enrolled.
     
    Steve Fatula likes this.
  8. teddyo333

    teddyo333 TUG Member

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    Location:
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    Vistana:
    Westin Kierland
    WKORV - OV
    Desert Oasis (x5)
    Vistana Villages - Bella
    Vistana Villages - Key West
    Sheraton Broadway Plantation
    Marriott:
    Marriott's Sunset Pointe
    That is exactly why we asked him for documented proof of the Starwood conversation. This is when the presentation came to an end and he requested our information to send us the documentation when it becomes available. I told him that we do not make deals without documented proof. Short and sweet . He was very professional and seemed confident that we would be talking again in the future. We'll see
     
  9. kds4

    kds4 TUG Member

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    This is consistent with information presented to us in July during an owner update (but with more detail than was even discussed with us). Did he give you any indication of when documentation would be forthcoming other than the new program being announced in 2020? What I find interesting is the offer of Chairman's Club with the purchase of 1,000 points. Not knowing your investment in Sheraton/Westin purchases, this sounds like a very cheap way to top-tier status.

    Was the offer for you to purchase at your presentation or only a 'feeler' of what may be coming in the future? If you could have purchased then, the documentation would appear in your closing paperwork. If you didn't see the representations there regarding your Sheraton/Westin ownership enrollment and/or Chairman's Club status, you could just not sign.
     
  10. teddyo333

    teddyo333 TUG Member

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    Location:
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    Resorts Owned:
    Vistana:
    Westin Kierland
    WKORV - OV
    Desert Oasis (x5)
    Vistana Villages - Bella
    Vistana Villages - Key West
    Sheraton Broadway Plantation
    Marriott:
    Marriott's Sunset Pointe
    He just stated that it was coming in 2020 and he could not supply us with any documentation. He gave the impression that the documentation was coming but he could not make it a guarantee in order for is to sign the contract. We are in no hurry. I would rather wait until something is officially announced by Marriott.
     
  11. kds4

    kds4 TUG Member

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    Understandable. It will be interesting to see if what he told you is consistent with future announcements.
     
  12. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    Marriott:
    Maui Ocean Club
    Waiohai Beach Club
    Barony Beach Club
    Destination Club Trust
    HGVC:
    HGVC at Sea World
    A lot of us have been assuming that the eventual introduction of whatever integrated product they create will mirror the introduction of the DC in 2010, perhaps with a reasonable fee-based enrollment option. The more I think about it though, I'm not so sure any more. I think the circumstances today are totally different than they were in 2010.

    In 2010, MVC was simply creating a new way to book/use what everyone had always had access to (the new points system vs. the old weeks system). The creation of the DC did not add any new locations, it just meant those who joined could access the same locations in a different way. Since most people were happy with the old system in the aggregate, to get people to adopt the new way, they probably felt they either had to 1.) make it easy/cheap or 2.) create fear that the new system would diminish the value of the legacy system. In fact, they used both tactics - they did make it easy/cheap and have used the "II trades will dry up" argument from the outset.

    This time it's different. Both MVC and VSN have mature, established point systems that both essentially function in the same macro manner - you can use points to book rather than trade, and you can do short stays, etc. What they would really be adding now for each program is a host of new locations to visit. It doesn't seem farfetched that the folks at corporate might feel that this brings more substantial value to existing owners, and that can be spun and sold in a way that they don't have to offer the easy/cheap route this time. So, instead of it being a $1300 fee to join the new program, it could mean $20K or $30K of new money as the buy-in. That would certainly reduce participation rates, but if they think selling the sizzle of the new locations offers them the ability to boost overall sales, they might not really care about actual participation rates, and it might be a more likely path this time.

    Also, if what the OP was pitched means that legacy Marriott sales offices are now using the "turn in your week to get the discount on the points" sales tactic (which seems to mirror the "retro" approach used by VSE), that may indicate a change in strategy for trying to shift inventory out of the legacy weeks systems into the points trusts.
     
    SteelerGal and CalGalTraveler like this.
  13. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    Jim....do they usually give a 15% discount at 2000 points including incentives? Seems to me that the following is what I see posted here most often....
    3000 point purchase required to achieve
    15% price discount with incentives....and additional incentive for financing.
    20% price discount with no incentives....but with incentive for financing.

    I don't recall seeing many 15% discounted 2000 point quotes including incentives (like his add'l 2000 DP's mentioned above). But then again, I could have missed them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  14. pchung6

    pchung6 TUG Member

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    deleted.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  15. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    Ahhh yes. The confident approach..... the I don’t care if you walk now because I KNOW you’ll be back. As if his bravado will validate his “honesty”. Timeshare sales people are the pits. Lol
     
  16. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    I have to call back central sales. They called with a bundle offer today
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  17. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    Destination Club Trust
    HGVC:
    HGVC at Sea World
    Back in April 2018 (our last presentation) we were pitched a bundle package that included 2000 points. The list price was $27920 for the points ($13.96), but the offer was $23720 ($11.86). That's a 15% discount. Back in 2014, we did not get any discount for only 1750 points. So, my assumption has always been the first discount level is 2000.
     
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  18. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    I don’t think as many people will buy in as you think. But that’s just my opinion.

    The “retro” approach is fairly new. You could always retro with 20K new money. But as of recently it’s been lowered to 10K and this is the first time that I know of (again, I could be completely wrong) that they are offering “buy backs” for weeks and giving fake money in my mind, to buy into the new flex program. Is it to gain back weeks for inventory or is it just to increase sales revenue? Either way, it’s new to me.
     
  19. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    That could also be that it was because it was part of a bundle. Will have to search for some stand alone quotes for 2000 and see what I find.
     
  20. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    To me it is more a matter of do they want the enrollment money fast or slowly? A reasonable enrollment fee (say $1000) means a lot of people will want to participate and it can be done through an online registration, virtually at no cost. We have also debated before if the skim is profitable to them, I believe so. Maybe not as profitable as I thought at the beginning but even 3-4% of the whole Vistana inventory can mean a lot of units for them to rent.
    Conversely they can do it through the sales dept but it is going to take a lot of time to get to the same numbers and it is going to be costly since they spend about 50% on the sales people, marketing etc. The other problem is that the sales force would just concentrate on this for a while, easier commission I assume, while leaving the other segments of the sales in the back burner. Those other segments can also mean more profit for the company in the long run since they mean bringing more fresh blood into the system. Lastly, implementing any kind of overlay will cost them money. A slow just just means costs and little to no new revenue and I do not see how this is a good thing.

    Of course the sales people want everything to go through them. Is it in the interest of the shareholders though? I believe not.
     
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  21. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    If they go with such an approach it will take a very long time to get quality VSN inventory in the DC system. I also am not sure if this will generate sufficient revenue rapidly that Wall St. expects from the acquisition. But I am certain they will run the scenarios and go with the program that maximizes revenue. This is a classic price elasticity problem.

    We would not go for such a high priced offer to get a few more locations so we will simply use what we own with SOs. This slow approach will assure that the VSN inventory remains stable because there will be a large group of owners who will not enroll. So I would be good with it.

    If they go with a low cost high volume enrollment approach similar to 2010 enrollment, then many more will participate (including ourselves).
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  22. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    Very valid points...if you assume an enrollment fee is almost pure gross profit, but a $25K points purchase includes inventory cost of 30% and marketing/sales cost of 50%, the gross profit on the $25K is only 20% ($5000). So in that scenario, if a $1000 fee scenario enticed more than 5 people to join for every one that would join by a buy-in, it could make economic sense for them to do the fee.

    Will be interesting to see what develops.

    The OP's pitch of a deed surrender to get a 15% discount versus just a straight offer of 15%-off is a new one for MVC (at least the first time I can recall that approach being reported). It will be interesting to see if we see more of that.
     
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  23. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    I don’t even think his will happen in 2020. We may see some benefit such as interchangeable priority across brands through interval in the short term. But I’m with you. I’d enroll for a reasonable fee. The idea of spending tens of thousands of dollars for ownership is not on my short list

    In other news. The MVC central sales office called me back with the “most amazing amazing bundle that I’m going to love”. I need to call them back, just too tired to play the cat and mouse game tonight lol.
     
  24. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    My thoughts exactly. We are close to a saturation point with 3 timeshares thus we have no appetite for spending a lot of money on a few more locations; it's diminishing returns. Especially knowing what happens to resale values.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  25. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    Especially when I picked up 3 mandatory platinum deeds in the last month. I’m doing ok with star options and maint fees, enough for me to go where I need. I actually may have a bit too much.
     

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