TUG MEMBERS: Joining TUG does not automatically register you as a user of the TUG Bulletin Board. You must register yourself.


*ads are disabled when logged in as a member*
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 25 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $11,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $11Million dollars
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. TUG is trying out a new program that will trade you a TUG membership for a Timeshare resort review if you are an expired member, or even just a guest here on the forums!

    Read more here
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
    Dismiss Notice
  8. TUG has now joined Priceline.com as an affiliate!

    Members and guests who book air travel, rental cars and even Cruise Vacations thru TUG's priceline links will now support TUG in the process!

    Read more here
  9. A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
    Dismiss Notice

Marriott/Vistana overlay

Discussion in 'Vistana Signature Experiences (formerly Starwood)' started by GregT, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. bobpark56

    bobpark56 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    274
    Location:
    Gibsonia, PA (just north of Pittsburgh)
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott's Grande Vista, Westin Lagunamar, Westin St John, Sandos Caracol, Festiva, DRI (Hawaii & US Collections)
    The guy said "Sheridan." Sounds like he does not know what he is talking about.
     
  2. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Messages:
    27,163
    Likes Received:
    2,262
    Trophy Points:
    699
    Location:
    NE Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott's Grande Vista
    Marriott's Harbour Lake
    SVV - Bella
    SVV - Key West
    Someone mentioned earlier, it was probably an error made by an offshore transcriptionist. It seems that this was copy and pasted from seekingalpha.com. They also spelled Westin as Western. The actual transcript on the VAC website doesn't have this error.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  3. bobpark56

    bobpark56 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    274
    Location:
    Gibsonia, PA (just north of Pittsburgh)
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott's Grande Vista, Westin Lagunamar, Westin St John, Sandos Caracol, Festiva, DRI (Hawaii & US Collections)
    "Avoid assessments?" "St. John? I guess you don't know that we in the Virgin Grand HOA were adequately insured, and I think that was true for the other HOAs as well. Not only are we not foreseeing assessments, but Vistana gave us our StarOptions back for missed stays during the post-hurricane maintenance. From what i have seen posted. Marriott owners at St Thomas were not treated as well.
     
    bizaro86 and CalGalTraveler like this.
  4. SteelerGal

    SteelerGal TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    90740
    Resorts Owned:
    WDW, WKV, SDO, HPP, HH, Bay Club
    It will be interesting to look back in 5yrs to see how Marriott incorporated Westin/Sheraton as well as Hyatt.
     
  5. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    California
    I am glad that worked out for the HOA. Sounds like having insurance saved the day and Vistana did right by its owners. My reference was speculation as to why prices have dropped. Perhaps its perception about an assessment? Can you provide other reasons for prices dropping?

    P.S. Although we haven't stayed at either TS resort, I love the island of St John and would take it over St. Thomas any day. I hope to go back to visit.
     
    SteelerGal likes this.
  6. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Messages:
    27,163
    Likes Received:
    2,262
    Trophy Points:
    699
    Location:
    NE Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott's Grande Vista
    Marriott's Harbour Lake
    SVV - Bella
    SVV - Key West
    Prices have dropped because MFs are astronomical. Low season weeks are the ones hit the most, they pay the same MF for a lower value time of the year.
     
  7. GregT

    GregT TUG Member TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,335
    Likes Received:
    676
    Trophy Points:
    399
    Location:
    Carlsbad, CA
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, DC Points HGVC: HHV Lagoon, Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, Aulani, Worldmark
    I believe the transaction benefits all MVC owners, simply because Marriott is now a more stable, healthier organization, and we need MVC to succeed.

    - Stable recurring revenues (from exchange fees, rental of II inventory, and membership fees) help to reduce the dependence on asset sales.

    - however because asset sales are the juice for MVC, there are now hundreds of thousands of new potential purchasers of points for Marriott. That can sustain MVC for the next 5-7 years as they work through Vistana owners. HGVC next.

    I believe this transaction benefits all MVC owners because it opens up new travel destinations.

    - Nassau
    - St. John
    - Kauai northside
    - Cancun
    - Cabo San Lucas
    - Increased access to Phoenix
    - Expanded opportunity for hotel conversions (Starwood hotels)

    I believe this transaction benefits all MVC owners because MVC now controls II and they can be creative.

    - Expand preference to Marriott & Starwood?
    - Redeem Studio for points and deposit the 1BR into II?
    - Mine owner trade history? Maybe I get a call from II one day telling me that a trade I’ve executed before is available - “last year you traded a Ko Olina Studio for a 1Br Park City in Fall. We’ve just received a Park City deposit with no matching trade request. Would you like it? If not do you want to buy [travel insurance/points/platinum membership]”
    - maybe they send me an owner survey after a trade and ask me if I would like to be contacted for that scenario? And pay $49 for this option?

    Of all of these things, the most important thing to me is the financial health of Marriott. I don’t mean stock price, I mean the health of the mother ship. We need a viable management company that manages our second home professionally and efficiently. I don’t mind being asked to pay extra fees to get extra stuff. Or I can choose to not pay the fees and keep my basic ownership (which I really like).

    But i think there is benefit for all owners - MVC and Vistana alike.

    Best,

    Greg
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
    CalGalTraveler and DannyTS like this.
  8. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I don't agree with a single thing you've written pro Vistana, unfortunately. From my perspective, it's a dilution that is going to cost MVC owners and a great expensive burden.

    Marriott's most recent quarter is a prelude of what's to come... and in case you don't follow the stock, it wasn't good.

    I won't argue that Marriott is an excellent management company. That's rather a key point of the argument against the Vistana properties, which haven't been managed for a really long time and are in sore need of it after years of neglect.

    Marriott and MVC were both fiscally and financially healthy before these mergers. On the hotel side, Marriott has made a significant number of missteps. If MVC repeats those same missteps, the motherships are going to sink and no life preserver is going to save any of us.
     
  9. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yes, the MF for St John/Bahamas and the rest of the Carib Vistana are astronomical. AND from what I understand some owners do fear an assessment is due, which is why there are sales for $1 that no one is buying, not even Marriott.
     
  10. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It will be interesting... MF will have at least doubled by then.
     
  11. GregT

    GregT TUG Member TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,335
    Likes Received:
    676
    Trophy Points:
    399
    Location:
    Carlsbad, CA
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, DC Points HGVC: HHV Lagoon, Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, Aulani, Worldmark
    I don’t follow the stock, other than to read the disclosures and see what management is saying about expansion (and integration of Vistana)

    With apologies, I don’t understand the statement that “it’s a dilution that is going to cost MVC owners and a great expensive burden”.

    Can you explain what that means? I don’t see the cost to MVC owners that you suspect is coming and would like to see if I’ve missed something. Thank you.

    Best,

    Greg
     
  12. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    520
    Trophy Points:
    173
    in the last 3 months: HGVC down 11%, MVC up 5%

    upload_2019-5-14_22-14-15.png
     
  13. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    520
    Trophy Points:
    173
    What advice do you have for TUGgers? Buy Vistana resorts and sell MVC, do the opposite, buy both, sell both, do nothing?
     
  14. GregT

    GregT TUG Member TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,335
    Likes Received:
    676
    Trophy Points:
    399
    Location:
    Carlsbad, CA
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, DC Points HGVC: HHV Lagoon, Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, Aulani, Worldmark
    Honestly Danny, for XX years, I’ve seen posters show up and post broadly on their pet peeves and suggest the sky is falling.

    Timeshares aren’t for everyone - and people’s personal evolution can exceed the benefits of timeshares.

    I don’t follow sunsets issue and am curious. Hopefully we can help and also hoping it’s not just the latest of many jerking our chain.

    Best,

    Greg
     
    Ken555, mjm1 and DannyTS like this.
  15. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    520
    Trophy Points:
    173
    as others said, the resale price and the quality of the resort are not necessarily correlated. For example there are tens of MVC resorts on eBay and most of them are listed for as little as $1. It is also important to note that most Vistana resorts do not have ROFR and this has to be taken into consideration when comparing resale prices.

    upload_2019-5-16_8-52-59.png
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    SteelerGal, GregT and CalGalTraveler like this.
  16. SteelerGal

    SteelerGal TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    90740
    Resorts Owned:
    WDW, WKV, SDO, HPP, HH, Bay Club
    Only my HGVC cost us over $1k. I was able to p/u WKV and Hyatt for transfer fees. DSV was less than $400 because it has 2019 usage included.

    Marriott is smart. They can tier their offerings and provide access to all via a program. The cost savings will come when consolidate all the departments and utilize one System.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  17. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Was referring to the quarterly results... not the stock price
     
  18. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    IMHO, the properties purchased need a lot of work, especially in Hawaii and Carib. The properties were sold to Vistana in need of work, the work largely wasn't accomplished while owned by Vistana, so we're talking about a period of years where less than stellar management occurred. Now MVC owns these properties and the MF related to many of these properties is already very high, so high in fact some properties in St John / Bahamas etc are being sold for pocket change and not selling.

    The purchase also doubles (or more) inventory that can be booked, but at many less desirable properties than primary Marriott properties. Thus, there may soon be many unhappy Marriott owners who will soon find that they can't book into favorite resorts because the inventory is gone.
     
  19. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28

    Cost savings for Marriott hotel side, which performs the management. Not necessarily, the MVC side, which rents the management. Regarding cost savings, one would think that as a particular resort scales, cost savings would occur that helps reduce MF. However, as witnessed by years of history, this is not the case, Marriott simply continues to increase the management fees to absorb any cost savings. Marriott KoOlina is a prime example. If economies of scale were ever going to result in cost savings and reduce overhead/MF, surely this massive resort would have. Not so, at 28K+ unit weeks, on the way to 40K unit weeks, overhead costs and MF have never skipped a beat in a steady rise.
     
  20. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Some of that cheap inventory on all sides does NOT exist. Redweek Verified listings are a better source.

    Never forget the inventory is manipulated on all sides, people are gaming the system all the time by listing non-existent inventory.
     
  21. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    520
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Wow, we have a 360 degree conspiracy theory here!

    I do not know about others, but i would like to know more about your experience in the TS industry, either as an owner or as an insider. I am not trying to be stingy, just that you are making extreme (IMO) statements that do not seem to bear any credibility to me, except if you have a very solid background in this area.
     
    alexadeparis likes this.
  22. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    1,509
    Trophy Points:
    399
    Location:
    Marvin, NC (Charlotte suburb)
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott:
    Maui Ocean Club
    Waiohai Beach Club
    Barony Beach Club
    Destination Club Trust
    HGVC:
    HGVC at Sea World
    A couple corrections/clarifications:

    1.) Marriott International hotels does not do the management for MVC timeshares. Marriott Vacations Worldwide, the timeshare company, acts as the property manager for all MVC timeshares and earns the management fee for doing so. They just pay a licensing fee to Marriott International hotels for use of the brands, access to the Marriott.com reservation system for rentals, and for participation in Bonvoy, etc..

    2.) At most, if not all, MVC resorts the management fee is set as a specific % of HOA operating costs. So, the management fee increases in direct proportion to the operating costs. Obviously, this means MVC has no real incentive to keep costs in line, but it also means they at least have to justify cost increases in some way. They can't just arbitrarily increase the management fee. When we owned in the Diamond system prior to our MVC ownership, they seemed to be able to increase their management fee at their own whim. By contrast, the Marriott approach is refreshing.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    DannyTS and SteelerGal like this.
  23. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28

    Well, go try to buy some of that and good luck with it. As for background, read my signature, been around 25 years.

    And while certainly a fun parlor trick to debase someone for supposed lack of experience, one should first offer up a background on their copious amounts of experience in the matter first. It's simply good etiquette.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  24. bobpark56

    bobpark56 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    274
    Location:
    Gibsonia, PA (just north of Pittsburgh)
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott's Grande Vista, Westin Lagunamar, Westin St John, Sandos Caracol, Festiva, DRI (Hawaii & US Collections)
    Where the heck do you get "years of neglect?" We stay 2 to 3 weeks every year at Westin Lagunamar, and every year the resort has gotten better, and the management continues to invest more in it to improve things for owners and keep maintenance fees down. This has been quite well described to owners who attend the annual January HOA meeting. I think you speak from too much ignorance.
     
    DannyTS likes this.
  25. YYJMSP

    YYJMSP TUG Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,239
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    258
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    not sure what properties you are talking about. Vistana Signature Experiences, formerly named Starwood Vacation Network, built the Hawaii properties -- they did not buy them from someone else. Same applies to a vast majority of the other locations. The few exceptions include hotel properties that were converted, but i think most of those came from Starwood Hotels.

    and i have no idea what properties you claim were not kept up to date, and needed a lot of work, etc...
     
    bizaro86 and ragdoll like this.

Share This Page