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Marriott/Vistana overlay

Discussion in 'Vistana Signature Experiences (formerly Starwood)' started by GregT, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. GregT

    GregT TUG Member TUG Member

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    Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, DC Points HGVC: HHV Lagoon, Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, Aulani, Worldmark
    All,

    I just started a thread in the Marriott forum -- I believe it is relevant for us as well -- I hope you find it useful?

    Best,

    Greg
     
  2. DavidnRobin

    DavidnRobin TUG Member

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    For us on Tapatalk and not subscribed to the Marriott forum - link?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. bizaro86

    bizaro86 TUG Member

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  4. farsighted99

    farsighted99 Guest

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    While it sounds okay that we might be able to use our options for Marriott, I think it's difficult enough to book space at the Vistana timeshares as it is right now. I can barely get anything at my home base Nanea. If Marriott timeshare owners can book our units, it may become even harder. Or maybe I don't quite understand this.
     
  5. grrrah

    grrrah Guest

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    Went to an Owners update last week, and from what I took, Marriott/Vistana now are only selling inventory into Flex programs, and according the salesperson (his lips were moving), they are buying up inventory for Flex programs. They are working on an updated exchange through interval international that would allow cross-booking between Marriott and Flex programs only, not the traditional weeks. This is what Marriott wanted for the merger (for SPG/Vistana to be all points/flex based). They did the typical "maintenance fees will skyrocket for non-flex owners", etc... They first tried to get me to convert my points, and after refusal, tried to sell adding flex points to what we have.

    I'm presuming us non-flex owners would have our inventory protected from the cross booking. This may also make it harder for us to book at 8-months with more competition, but also presuming the flex owners would be using their points at Marriott properties.
     
    komosatp likes this.
  6. Venter

    Venter TUG Member

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    Could I have some opinions from everybody.
    I got a free ski week, biennial odd, at lakeside Terrace. I started the process December 2018 hoping it would be completed within 2-3 months. My thinking was that it would be great if Marriott somehow made an offer to retro resales in and I could hopefully use the week during spring break or rent it if I did not trade.
    I enquired about the process over the weekend and was told it would not be done before May as the current owners still has a stay booked. I presume with Staroptions because May would fall within the summer time. I am now having second thoughts about the transfer as it may not be done by the time Marriott tells us what they are going to do. I live within driving distance and will use it. I guess I am answering my own question but would like to hear from others what they might consider doing in this situation. Keep or cancel?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  7. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I am in the camp that believe there will not be an overlay. If they do anything it will be similar to the Wyndham, Worldmark and Shell model.
     
  8. vacationtime1

    vacationtime1 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I hope there is an overlay -- because it will create wonderful arbitrage opportunities.
     
    GregT likes this.
  9. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    IMO it does not make sense for MVC to buy Vistana, brag about all these new locations like Mexico and St John's and not create an overlay. If one thinks strategically in 5 and 10 years from now, an unified product is a clear winner. I just don't see them not integrating the brands.

    Like others, I hope they will offer a reasonable enrollment for everyone in order to attract as many owners as possible. I am pretty sure that if they offer enrollment for $1000-$2000 a large % of the 500,000 owners in both systems will choose to enroll and MVW inc will make a lot of money with a minimum sales effort and with an extremely low cost, I think most of the dollars will flow to the bottom line.


    I am more concerned about how the resale owner will be treated in case they decide the enrollment is not for everyone and how this may change the Interval trading and the internal Staroptions exchanges.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
    Ken555 likes this.
  10. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    In the Wyndham, Worldmark and Shell model, there is linkage in that developer bought points within a system can book across into the other systems at 10 months. Wyndham also picked up excess units from the other systems and put these limited inventory into Wyndham inventory. Marriott can pretty much do the same.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  11. mjm1

    mjm1 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Westin Kierland Villas- Annual & EOY
    I think the most important question is will you use the unit there if all else fails. If so, you can’t lose. If MVC does create an overlay program , which I think they will, and if the enrollment fee is reasonable that is another benefit.

    One thought that entered my mind is if a resale buyer has a voluntary Vistana unit they would be required to retro the unit into the SVN by buying something directly from Vistana. The last I heard it was a minimum of $20k. However, if MVC creates an overlay that same owner may be able to pay a relatively smalll fee to enroll in the overlay and gain access to Marriott properties. They still wouldn’t be in the SVN. They could still trade through II. That would be an interesting situation and I wonder if that’s how it would play out.

    Best regards.

    Mike
     
    taffy19 likes this.
  12. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    I am certain MVC is figuring all the angles including this one. Not sure how they will implement, but one thing is for sure - MVC will maximize their profits even if certain sub-groups of owners are disenfranchised. i.e. it will be a business decision.
     
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  13. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Agree. ... and within legal means of course...
     
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  14. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    but do you agree with me that a reasonable fee, 1 or 2 k for an enrollment to an overlay system (even for the resale owners)would benefit MVC financially? I think the sheer number of people that would enroll means a lot of money that the sales force just cannot make up with the one by one re-conversion contracts.
     
  15. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    No, I do not. Because they make more money selling MVC points or Westin/Sheraton/Aventura Flex points, and they would also irate alot of recent buyers of MVC points or Westin/Sheraton/Aventura points if they let other owners into the system.

    One salesperson said MVC folks visited the Westin timeshare properties in Cancun and Cabo to understand their system and indicated that it was best to leave existing systems largely as they have been operating and instead they will plan on possibly picking up unsold Vistana inventory to roll into the MVC system. That is pretty much what Wyndham did, rolled in limited excess inventory from some Worldmark (and Shell... I am not as familiar as Shell) properties into the Wyndham system.
     
    TravelTime likes this.
  16. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    It would make sense but I believe their greed will cloud their analysis.
     
  17. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    I just did the Lagunamar update a couple of weeks ago. I know, the lips were moving but i got the impression that a lot of things would change.

    There is no evidence that, if they invite owners to participate, MVC's sales would slow in any way, shape of form. People buy from the developer, in a vast majority of cases because they do not know better so why would they complain? Not to mention, the enrollment offer would be limited in time and the MVC and Vistana sales people would just go back to the routine. Look at systems like HGVC, a great program for resale owners. The sales offices are doing very well. Surprisingly well.

    IMO if MVC believes they can get quickly a couple of hundreds of millions from these enrollments they will do it because they can pay back some of the debt and that is great for the stock price. I am not sure their sales people will like it temporarily but that is secondary to the bottom line and to the stock price.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  18. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Keeping the 3 (Hyatt, Marriott, Vistana) and many subsets (Sheraton, Westin, Nanea, Aventura) programs separate lets them sell points many times over.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  19. Moparman42

    Moparman42 Guest

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    I am curious about them combining the programs as well. Marriott is a points only based system where they say they don;t sell deeded property weeks. So what COULD happen to our deeded weeks if they decide to go to a points only based system? Any ideas? could they force us to sell into the pool, or are we safe with the deeded weeks we have? Just a curious thing since I like the fact that the owners usually get better room designations.
     
  20. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    Why would combining the programs prevent them from selling over and over?
     
  21. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Selling one set of points as opposed to 3 + sets of points.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  22. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    They cannot take away or change what you have.
     
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  23. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    what is important is the number of potential buyers not the number of programs. Am i missing anything?
    I also think that the sales force would benefit greatly from a simplified, unified product
     
  24. vacationtime1

    vacationtime1 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    What is important is the number of dollars they can extract from those potential buyers.

    Companies don't buy other companies to reduce existing revenue streams.
     
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  25. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    I am not sure why this would reduce the revenue stream: say they have 100 prospects today at WKV. Is it not more important what they sell to those people in that location rather than how many programs the company may sell somewhere else?

    Additionally, would a simplified, unified program with 150 resorts sell better or a fragmented program? If they had to design it from scratch how would they do it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019

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