Marriott pushing ARDA support with invoice

[BJRSanDiego]

A couple of weeks ago I paid my annual Maintenance fees for DSV2. I decided to pay early to get it out of the way. The total amount due for one of the units was $1,436.29. The other one was an EOY so I paid $ 718.15. That was the full amount. There was a space where I could voluntarily "contribute" if so inclined, $10 for each of the two units to ARDA. I chose NOT to contribute.

So today I get an invoice from Marriott that says
Due Date amount to be paid (circle one)
01/04/2019 $0 $20.00

whiskey tango foxtrot?

On the other side of the page it says
Amount Due $ 0.00
Amount Due (with $10.00 per week voluntary ARDA-ROC contribution) $20.00

My wife looked at the invoice and thought that I had underpaid and that we owed $20. I checked on line with Marriott and found that there is zero due. But Marriott send me out a confusing "bill" that included a somewhat hidden "donation" to ARDA. It also indicated that any "late payment will be billed an interest of 12 percent and/or a late charge of $50.00 after the due date indicated."

It "irks" me to get something looking like an invoice for a voluntary ARDA contribution. It also irks me that after I "declined" at the time that I paid my MF that I get this phony invoice. I suspect that many people will be "bamboozled" enough to pay the "voluntary" ARDA fee. This is the first time that I have observed this - - so it is a new tactic of Marriott to trick people into supporting ARDA.

I'm wondering if anyone else is getting these phony invoices?

 

[dioxide45]

It sounds like you paid the amount due before the billing process was run and created the bills? So the bills just picked up what was still not paid? Not sure there is anything sinister.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

The secondary "bill" added in the ARDA "voluntary contribution". The same contribution that I reviewed (when I paid my MF) and decided NOT to include/support. There was a box for it, but I chose NOT to "voluntarily" contribute. So, I paid IN FULL what was due. Then I got a subsequent "invoice" that included an ARDA voluntary contribution albeit with a bit of subterfuge. It didn't jump out and say it was a second pass at trying to get a "voluntary contribution. It didn't come out specifically and indicate that it was voluntary. I only figured it out in the small print. On the "face" of it, I had two options: I was supposed to mail in a secondary document indicating that I STILL did not want to support ARDA or I was supposed to provide my credit card info to pay the voluntary "bill".

So, imagine that you want to pay your $120 Electric bill. You pay the bill. Then you receive a subsequent BILL for $10. It says, "Hey Mr. Dioxide, you owe us another $10. Pay before Jan 4 or you accrue penalties. "When you dig into it, you find that the extra $10 is actually a "voluntary contribution" to a cause you don't support. But which you previously indicated that you didn't want to contribute to it.

So, perhaps it isn't "sinister" but I respectfully disagree with your comment that it isn't sleazy. In the past have prepaid MF (by about a month or more from the mandatory due date (at which penalties start assessing) before and not received a secondary bogus bill. In fact I have regularly prepaid both my Marriott accounts and my Sands of Kahana account and have NEVER EVER received a subsequent billing. Take it to the extreme - - every bill you pay in full results in a subsequent "billing" which requires you to sort through the details as to whether or not the secondary billing is valid.

So, how many times do I need to say "NO, I don't want to support ARDA"? At what point does it get sleazy (my term)? Does it get sleazy if Marriott does this the first time or one, or two or three more times? Or is it sleazy on their first obfuscation? I think that my initial "no" was good enough. Also, their secondary "BILL" was not really clear. On the surface, it appeared that I owed another $20. My wife reviewed it and was going to provide a VISA number for the extra charge. She is sharp and is a CPA. So how many others will get bamboozled?

This is new. It hasn't happened before in that past 10 years. I think that this recent change is sleazy.

 

[brianfox]

I just looked at my MF page online and it is in no way indicating ARDA as being optional. The word "optional" does not appear anywhere. It is designated as "ARDA Contribution", yet says "Amount Due: $10".
Last year there was a checkbox for optional ARDA contribution. Only if you view the online inserts are you told that ARDA is voluntary.
This is indeed sleazy.

 

[controller1]

@BJRSanDiego I believe you have completely misunderstood what @dioxide45 was saying. dioxide45 was discussing you possibly paying prior to the run of the billing cycle. You state that this was a "prepaid" MF. So, did you receive a bill/invoice (either online or vis snail mail) for this MF or did you just go online and prepay? If you did not receive a bill/invoice then you perhaps paid prior to their system making an automatic run of the billing cycle at which time you could have opted out of the bill/invoice received and everything would have been understood by the IT system.

 

[TUGBrian]

very frustrating to read regardless of the intent...

the confusion will result in many folks paying no doubt about it.

 

[dioxide45]

@BJRSanDiego I believe you have completely misunderstood what @dioxide45 was saying. dioxide45 was discussing you possibly paying prior to the run of the billing cycle. You state that this was a "prepaid" MF. So, did you receive a bill/invoice (either online or vis snail mail) for this MF or did you just go online and prepay? If you did not receive a bill/invoice then you perhaps paid prior to their system making an automatic run of the billing cycle at which time you could have opted out of the bill/invoice received and everything would have been understood by the IT system.

This is what I was trying to say. I know that I was able to see the amount of our MFs due online for several days before MVCI actually generated the 2019 Maintenance Fee Bill. So what I was asking was, did the OP possibly pay their MF amount during that time when the fees were visible online but the bill was not yet generated? If that was the case, then I suspect that it was just a timeing issue as when the bill was generated the MFs were already paid in full, but the system still created a bill because one had not been created before.

To the OP, did you actually receive two bills? One for the full amount of MF + the ARDA fee? Or just one bill with the $20 still outstanding?

 

[dioxide45]

I just looked at my MF page online and it is in no way indicating ARDA as being optional. The word "optional" does not appear anywhere. It is designated as "ARDA Contribution", yet says "Amount Due: $10".
Last year there was a checkbox for optional ARDA contribution. Only if you view the online inserts are you told that ARDA is voluntary.
This is indeed sleazy.

While I do recall it saying "Optional" in past years, I never remember there being a checkbox. I always just left the ARDA Contribution amount to be paid as zero and after I paid the MF amount in full, the ARDA contribution amount due disappeared.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

@BJRSanDiego I believe you have completely misunderstood what @dioxide45 was saying. dioxide45 was discussing you possibly paying prior to the run of the billing cycle. You state that this was a "prepaid" MF. So, did you receive a bill/invoice (either online or vis snail mail) for this MF or did you just go online and prepay? If you did not receive a bill/invoice then you perhaps paid prior to their system making an automatic run of the billing cycle at which time you could have opted out of the bill/invoice received and everything would have been understood by the IT system.

I recall that I received an email or a letter indicating the amount of the MF for 2019 and that it was due sometime in the first week of January. So yes, I did receive a bill. So when I say that I prepaid it ... it really translates into me paying the bill in the amount indicated and owed BUT not waiting until the last minute - - like December 31, etc..

So, I went on the Marriott website, looked to confirm the amount due and paid it in full. I chose not to pay anything towards ARDA. I had the option of either paying $10 per unit towards ARDA or paying nothing. I chose to pay nothing. It was 100% clear exactly what I owed. That is exactly what I paid. The new bill is exactly like the on-line bill that I paid a few weeks ago, except that they added ARDA charges. I am not sure if I need to negatively respond to the ARDA bill or not. If I ignore it, will they send me a third bill and/or start imposing penalties? That is why I thought that this new tactic was sleazy.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

...

To the OP, did you actually receive two bills? One for the full amount of MF + the ARDA fee? Or just one bill with the $20 still outstanding?

Yes, I received two bills. The first one I paid with no money assigned for ARDA. Then I got a document titled "Statement of Owner Account". This statement was a second bill with $20 outstanding.

On the stub that I am supposed to mail back. it lists a due date, has a box to check that says "Please find enclosed my check for the amount circled" and also has blanks to fill in my credit card info. It also has a heading "Amount to be paid (circle one) $0.00 $20.00". So they are implying that I still have a choice. But it is misleading IMnSHO.

I just have never run into a situation where something that was supposed to be voluntary and which I chose not to support ended up with a secondary statement being generated that looks like a bill.

I recall reading several years ago about sham companies that would send an scam invoice to the accounting department of a larger company for some amount (for the sake of comparison, say $20) for a goods or service that might appear to NOT be out of the ordinary. The scam invoice would include words in small print that it wasn't an actual bill or that payment was optional. The accounts payable clerks in some companies would just pay the amount without much, if any, research. Now if a $2 million bill showed up that would be different. But for the small bills some actually got paid. This recent secondary Marriott "bill" is not entirely different from the classic scam.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

BTW, on the return envelope provided it requires ME to pay the postage to tell them that - - for the second time - - I don't want to send money to ARDA. I filed it carefully where I put similar junk mail without return postage. Oh, that reminds me - - today is trash day.

 

[dioxide45]

When you go in to "Maintenance Fee/Club Dues" then click on the "Make Payment" button then click on the "View eBilling Invoices & Inserts" link, do you actually have two separate bills listed there? One for the full amount and one for $20?

 

[BJRSanDiego]

When you go in to "Maintenance Fee/Club Dues" then click on the "Make Payment" button then click on the "View eBilling Invoices & Inserts" link, do you actually have two separate bills listed there? One for the full amount and one for $20?

No. When I went to the Marriott site it shows a zero balance. There is no mention of the additional $20.

So, I'm going to toss the new paper statement. But if I get a third statement or get assessed penalties for a late payment, I'm not going to be a happy camper. I'll repost if that happens.

 

[dioxide45]

No. When I went to the Marriott site it shows a zero balance. There is no mention of the additional $20.

So, I'm going to toss the new paper statement. But if I get a third statement or get assessed penalties for a late payment, I'm not going to be a happy camper. I'll repost if that happens.

I am still curious if you show two bills under "View eBilling Invoices & Inserts".

 

[BJRSanDiego]

I am still curious if you show two bills under "View eBilling Invoices & Inserts".

Dioxide, I am not registered for eBilling. I am not sure why. But I prefer to get a paper bill to remind me to pay. But when I pay I do so via the internet.

 

[csalter2]

I just looked at my MF page online and it is in no way indicating ARDA as being optional. The word "optional" does not appear anywhere. It is designated as "ARDA Contribution", yet says "Amount Due: $10".
Last year there was a checkbox for optional ARDA contribution. Only if you view the online inserts are you told that ARDA is voluntary.
This is indeed sleazy.

By definition the word, “contribution” by definition is a gift or donation. Contribution is synonymous with those words. That would be Marriott’s defense. They also don’t use that word with your maintenance fee. Plus, they put the ARDA contribution on a separate line than the actual maintenance fee. My Diamond Resorts bill does not separate or put that “contribution” separate from the maintenance fee bill. They put it all together and make you feel that the ARDA contribution is a mandatory fee and not a voluntary one. I am sure that all of these timeshare developers do this because that allows them to take less of there profit and put it toward that organization. The more we contribute the less they really have to.

 

[dougp26364]

A couple of weeks ago I paid my annual Maintenance fees for DSV2. I decided to pay early to get it out of the way. The total amount due for one of the units was $1,436.29. The other one was an EOY so I paid $ 718.15. That was the full amount. There was a space where I could voluntarily "contribute" if so inclined, $10 for each of the two units to ARDA. I chose NOT to contribute.

So today I get an invoice from Marriott that says
Due Date amount to be paid (circle one)
01/04/2019 $0 $20.00

whiskey tango foxtrot?

On the other side of the page it says
Amount Due $ 0.00
Amount Due (with $10.00 per week voluntary ARDA-ROC contribution) $20.00

My wife looked at the invoice and thought that I had underpaid and that we owed $20. I checked on line with Marriott and found that there is zero due. But Marriott send me out a confusing "bill" that included a somewhat hidden "donation" to ARDA. It also indicated that any "late payment will be billed an interest of 12 percent and/or a late charge of $50.00 after the due date indicated."

It "irks" me to get something looking like an invoice for a voluntary ARDA contribution. It also irks me that after I "declined" at the time that I paid my MF that I get this phony invoice. I suspect that many people will be "bamboozled" enough to pay the "voluntary" ARDA fee. This is the first time that I have observed this - - so it is a new tactic of Marriott to trick people into supporting ARDA.

I'm wondering if anyone else is getting these phony invoices?

It could be worse. Diamond Resorts includes it as part of their MF payment. To remove it you have to jump thru hoops of fire. You literally had to REQUEST it be removed. Even then their invoice would show you as delinquent and, occasionally you'd have to really make a big stink to get things set right. At least Marriott only askes for the contribution, even if they make it seem like it's a necessary part of paying your MF's.

It's one reason I detest ARDA. It seems to me the only way they get contributions is by confusing unsuspecting timeshare owners who pay the extra "contribution" as if it were a normal part of the MF's.

 

[davidvel]

By definition the word, “contribution” by definition is a gift or donation. Contribution is synonymous with those words. That would be Marriott’s defense. They also don’t use that word with your maintenance fee. Plus, they put the ARDA contribution on a separate line than the actual maintenance fee. My Diamond Resorts bill does not separate or put that “contribution” separate from the maintenance fee bill. They put it all together and make you feel that the ARDA contribution is a mandatory fee and not a voluntary one. I am sure that all of these timeshare developers do this because that allows them to take less of there profit and put it toward that organization. The more we contribute the less they really have to.

No, this is sinister, and sleazy. The club dues are also a separate line. Putting contribution after it does not make it clear thst such a contribution is not required. Sure it's a potential defense but it's clearly misleading, especially when it used to say optional in the past. A clear change to mislead.

But then they send a follow up invoice demanding payment or be subject to late fees? How can they defend this?. (Sorry, just a billing error...) Yeah right.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

I am researching this a bit further...

 

[dioxide45]

Dioxide, I am not registered for eBilling. I am not sure why. But I prefer to get a paper bill to remind me to pay. But when I pay I do so via the internet.

Did you receive two paper bills?

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Did you receive two paper bills?

To be honest, I don't really recall. It may have been two paper bills, or an email and a paper bill, etc.

I spoke with Marriott Corporate and their person told me that he was surprised with the format of the latest customer bill. On the front, it included the break down of the various fees (reserve fee, operating fee, etc.), and it included the amount that I had paid. The amount I paid was the same as the sum of the other four items. But on the bottom it contained a tear-off to send in. The tear-off had a due date, a place to indicate that I was paying by check, and an area for the credit card info. Next to the Due Date, it had (in reverse lettering) "Amount to be paid: circle one" and below it the amount of $0.00 and $ 20.00. On the back of the invoice it showed an amount due for ARDA as $20. The Marriott corp. guy thought that this was misleading, especially because this detail was on the back. He said that he didn't recall seeing this in the past 15 years. Perhaps this is a change in their billing format or perhaps he just didn't notice it. The explanation, after he spoke with the billing people, was it was just an unfortunate issue of pagination putting the ARDA stuff on the back. If I only had a single timeshare unit, all of the info would have been on the front.

Aside from the issue of whether I received one bill or two, there is the issue of opting in or opting out. When I paid on-line, I chose to not opt-in with the ARDA fee. So I left the ARDA field black (default to $0.00). The timing of the printing of the most recent bill (that caused me frustration) was such that Marriott recognized my payment, applied it to my account, and then sent out an invoice that - - on the surface - - appeared that I still owed $20. And the format of the paper bill suggested that I needed to respond and to opt-out, by circling the $0.00 amount, to put on my own stamp and to mail it in. They could have indicated that if you choose not to support ARDA that nothing is due and there is no need to respond. But they didn't. Since they recognized my previous payment and had applied it to my annual MF bill, they also knew that I chose not to support ARDA at the time of the payment. Also, I already had received a subsequent confirmation email from them (perhaps a few days after on-line payment) that my MF was paid in full and nothing due. That is why I found the recent paper invoice (received perhaps 3 weeks later) with what appeared to be $20 still due to be misleading (and while not necessarily intentional on their part, I perceived as being sleazy).

I think that Marriott could be a little clearer on the ARDA fee. The Marriott corp. guy agreed that some people will probably think that the $20 fee needs to be paid and would pay it.

 

[dioxide45]

To be honest, I don't really recall. It may have been two paper bills, or an email and a paper bill, etc.

I spoke with Marriott Corporate and their person told me that he was surprised with the format of the latest customer bill. On the front, it included the break down of the various fees (reserve fee, operating fee, etc.), and it included the amount that I had paid. The amount I paid was the same as the sum of the other four items. But on the bottom it contained a tear-off to send in. The tear-off had a due date, a place to indicate that I was paying by check, and an area for the credit card info. Next to the Due Date, it had (in reverse lettering) "Amount to be paid: circle one" and below it the amount of $0.00 and $ 20.00. On the back of the invoice it showed an amount due for ARDA as $20. The Marriott corp. guy thought that this was misleading, especially because this detail was on the back. He said that he didn't recall seeing this in the past 15 years. Perhaps this is a change in their billing format or perhaps he just didn't notice it. The explanation, after he spoke with the billing people, was it was just an unfortunate issue of pagination putting the ARDA stuff on the back. If I only had a single timeshare unit, all of the info would have been on the front.

Aside from the issue of whether I received one bill or two, there is the issue of opting in or opting out. When I paid on-line, I chose to not opt-in with the ARDA fee. So I left the ARDA field black (default to $0.00). The timing of the printing of the most recent bill (that caused me frustration) was such that Marriott recognized my payment, applied it to my account, and then sent out an invoice that - - on the surface - - appeared that I still owed $20. And the format of the paper bill suggested that I needed to respond and to opt-out, by circling the $0.00 amount, to put on my own stamp and to mail it in. They could have indicated that if you choose not to support ARDA that nothing is due and there is no need to respond. But they didn't. Since they recognized my previous payment and had applied it to my annual MF bill, they also knew that I chose not to support ARDA at the time of the payment. Also, I already had received a subsequent confirmation email from them (perhaps a few days after on-line payment) that my MF was paid in full and nothing due. That is why I found the recent paper invoice (received perhaps 3 weeks later) with what appeared to be $20 still due to be misleading (and while not necessarily intentional on their part, I perceived as being sleazy).

I think that Marriott could be a little clearer on the ARDA fee. The Marriott corp. guy agreed that some people will probably think that the $20 fee needs to be paid and would pay it.

It does seem that you are in somewhat of a unique scenario, having paid the amount due and then the bill being generated. Not many people would end up getting a bill to choose between paying $0 or $20. Most would be choosing between $1000 or $1010 (for example). I do agree that Marriott needs to do a better job of telling owners that the ARDA amount is an optional fee.

 

[Fasttr]

I think it is just a timing issue. Had you not gone in early and paid online (before receiving the paper bill), but instead waited until you received the paper bill to go online and pay, I don't think you would have ever gotten a confusing $20 bill. Just my read on things. I think you were a victim of your own efficiency, and MVC's lack of IT prowess.

 

[dioxide45]

I think it is just a timing issue. Had you not gone in early and paid online (before receiving the paper bill), but instead waited until you received the paper bill to go online and pay, I don't think you would have ever gotten a confusing $20 bill. Just my read on things. I think you were a victim of your own efficiency, and MVC's lack of IT prowess.

This was my thinking exactly, right from the begining.

 

[BocaBoy]

I just have never run into a situation where something that was supposed to be voluntary and which I chose not to support ended up with a secondary statement being generated that looks like a bill.

You received two bills in the mail? I doubt that. You said the first was online. I prepaid some of my fees also and only got the one paper bill, prepared as of the date it was generated. Assuming just one paper bill, this was it and it showed what was unpaid from the first one, including any optional amounts. To me it is very logical and certainly not sinister.