Marriott Destination Club - Trust Point Owners

[rahulgopi]

I am wondering how many members here are pure Trust Point Owners ?. I understand majority of members are either legacy week owners or hybrid weeks / point owners. Are there any members that are just point only owners ?. If you are one, how is your experience so far with the club ?. The MF , even thou it includes most all fees seem to be on the very high side, does it make any economic sense to own points alone ?. Are there any positive side to owning just club points ??

 

[VacationForever]

Most savvy TUGgers would buy resale points if they are pure points owners.

 

[rahulgopi]

Absolutely , it makes sense to buy resale. Even with $2 junk fees, it appears that some tugers have got points below $4.50 - all in. Question is how many owners are happy with pure trust point accounts ? . Does it cater to the vacation needs?

 

[Tommyhob]

I'm a trust point only owner and am happy. In retrospect, I would have bought resale instead of retail, but many here have made the same mistake.
I'm very happy with my ownership. I like being able to go where I want when I want and have not had issues with availability as long as planning ahead. It also nice to use some strategy to take shorter trips, use DP's or MR points or cash rates when it makes sense, which isnt really possible when owning only a legacy week. I've rented points and will continue to do so, which is another key benefit to owning DPs.

 

[bazzap]

I'm a trust point only owner and am happy. In retrospect, I would have bought resale instead of retail, but many here have made the same mistake.
I'm very happy with my ownership. I like being able to go where I want when I want and have not had issues with availability as long as planning ahead. It also nice to use some strategy to take shorter trips, use DP's or MR points or cash rates when it makes sense, which isnt really possible when owning only a legacy week. I've rented points and will continue to do so, which is another key benefit to owning DPs.

Those options are good, although not unique to pure points owners or even hybrid weeks / points owners.
I also enjoy all those options as a weeks only owner through enrolment and election of points when appropriate to our plans.

 

[Fasttr]

deleted

 

[Fasttr]

I think the only theoretical measurable economic positive to Trust points versus other ways into the club would be surrounding special assessments levied on specific resorts (think related to recent hurricane related damage). As pure Trust points owners....any such special assessments would be watered down extensively across all units at all resorts in the Trust...vs having owned that specific resort in either a hybrid bundle or enrolled ownership which could be a larger potential liability to specific resort ownership.

Also, I don't know that the points allocated to enrolled weeks are forever fixed are they? Could they perhaps be changed at some future date at the whim of MVC, thus reducing the value of enrollment?

Again....this is just trying to come up with something to offer up based on the OP's initial question.

 

[bazzap]

I think the only theoretical measurable economic positive to Trust points versus other ways into the club would be surrounding special assessments levied on specific resorts (think related to recent hurricane related damage). As pure Trust points owners....any such special assessments would be watered down extensively across all units at all resorts in the Trust...vs having owned that specific resort in either a hybrid bundle or enrolled ownership which could be a larger potential liability to specific resort ownership.

Also, I don't know that the points allocated to enrolled weeks are forever fixed are they? Could they perhaps be changed at some future date at the whim of MVC, thus reducing the value of enrollment?

Again....this is just trying to come up with something to offer up based on the OP's initial question.

I believe there are pros and cons either way re: Special Assessments.
As pure Trust points owners, these would certainly be watered down across all units.
At the same time though you would incur some of the costs for those resorts impacted even if you never visit them, whereas if you own weeks but not at those resorts you wouldn’t.
My understanding is that points allocated to enrolled weeks are fixed forever.
The points required to book stays can be changed, but even then only within the year so say more at weekends and less on weekdays but with the total annual number staying the same.

 

[Fasttr]

My understanding is that points allocated to enrolled weeks are fixed forever.

This excerpt from the Exchange Docs appears to give them some wiggle room. Bolding is mine.

For administrative convenience in the operation of the Program and for determination of the respective rights of Exchange Members to enjoy the benefits of the Program, the Exchange Company will assign a Distribution of Exchange Points to each Exchange Member for Use Periods Deposited by the Exchange Member for exchange each Use Year. The number of Exchange Points in a Distribution for a particular Use Period is based on various factors such as relative daily and seasonal demand, Accommodation capacity, size, view, and furnishings, and other valuation parameters established by the Exchange Company and may vary periodically by such factors. The number of Exchange Points in a Distribution is not in any way intended to be reflective of the economic value of any Interest and may vary from year to year based on the forgoing factors.

 

[bazzap]

This excerpt from the Exchange Docs appears to give them some wiggle room. Bolding is mine.

For administrative convenience in the operation of the Program and for determination of the respective rights of Exchange Members to enjoy the benefits of the Program, the Exchange Company will assign a Distribution of Exchange Points to each Exchange Member for Use Periods Deposited by the Exchange Member for exchange each Use Year. The number of Exchange Points in a Distribution for a particular Use Period is based on various factors such as relative daily and seasonal demand, Accommodation capacity, size, view, and furnishings, and other valuation parameters established by the Exchange Company and may vary periodically by such factors. The number of Exchange Points in a Distribution is not in any way intended to be reflective of the economic value of any Interest and may vary from year to year based on the forgoing factors.

I guess we will see if they ever do seek to change the allocation for enrolled owners electing their weeks.
I wouldn’t claim to understand the nuances of their agreement terminology.
All I know for certain is that they haven’t changed our allocation since day 1.
Thanks for the reference though.

 

[Fasttr]

I guess we will see if they ever do seek to change the allocation for enrolled owners electing their weeks.
I wouldn’t claim to understand the nuances of their agreement terminology.
All I know for certain is that they haven’t changed our allocation since day 1.
Thanks for the reference though.

Agreed....its probably very unlikely, but due to the wiggle room they appear to have left themselves, not impossible.

 

[GregT]

I am wondering how many members here are pure Trust Point Owners ?. I understand majority of members are either legacy week owners or hybrid weeks / point owners. Are there any members that are just point only owners ?. If you are one, how is your experience so far with the club ?. The MF , even thou it includes most all fees seem to be on the very high side, does it make any economic sense to own points alone ?. Are there any positive side to owning just club points ??

I think there are few Trust Point-only owners on TUG. There are several that I am aware of that started with points and ultimately ended buying a traditional week at a favorite property.

A good friend of mine owns 15K Trust Points and he loves them. We've talked quite a bit about how to use them so I think he benefits a little bit from how much time I've spent with the system.

A challenge for a pure Trust Point owner is that it is expensive to get to the status level where the system really rocks (7K points). I think the system really hamstrings the person who must wait until 10 months out to book short stays, because the prime reservations are typically absorbed by them. The ability to book short stays 13 months out is very very powerful -- one of the best things about the system -- and hard to get there with just Trust Points.

Best,

Greg

 

[davidvel]

I am wondering how many members here are pure Trust Point Owners ?. I understand majority of members are either legacy week owners or hybrid weeks / point owners. Are there any members that are just point only owners ?. If you are one, how is your experience so far with the club ?. The MF , even thou it includes most all fees seem to be on the very high side, does it make any economic sense to own points alone ?. Are there any positive side to owning just club points ??

Absolutely , it makes sense to buy resale. Even with $2 junk fees, it appears that some tugers have got points below $4.50 - all in. Question is how many owners are happy with pure trust point accounts ? . Does it cater to the vacation needs?

Without doing an actual assessment of what you are really getting at what cost, and whether its how you want and plan to vacation, its just a vague smoke and mirrors exercise. In evaluating your potential purchase, I think the first step is to think about where you would travel specifically: where, when and how long. Write down a sample vacation.

Next, look at exactly how many trust points that would take. Then multiply the points times maintenance fees (.53) for the points. Add this to some reasonable annual portion of your upfront fees (20-30 years). Formula:

Points needed * .53
+
Purch. Price /25
= Cost for reservation/year

Understand that you may or may not be able to book what you actually want. Then compare this to what it would cost you to rent the same thing from Marriott or elsewhere (or what you typically spend each year to vacation), and see if the "flexibility" is worth it to you.

 

[rahulgopi]

Without doing an actual assessment of what you are really getting at what cost, and whether its how you want and plan to vacation, its just a vague smoke and mirrors exercise. In evaluating your potential purchase, I think the first step is to think about where you would travel specifically: where, when and how long. Write down a sample vacation.

Next, look at exactly how many trust points that would take. Then multiply the points times maintenance fees (.53) for the points. Add this to some reasonable annual portion of your upfront fees (20-30 years). Formula:

Points needed * .53
+
Purch. Price /25
= Cost for reservation/year

Understand that you may or may not be able to book what you actually want. Then compare this to what it would cost you to rent the same thing from Marriott or elsewhere (or what you typically spend each year to vacation), and see if the "flexibility" is worth it to you.

Thank you David. I already did the calculation and in the process of making a decision. The sole idea of this thread is to get feedback from pure Trust point owners on how favorably they view the system, given the higher cost involved in both buy in and MF.

If you look elsewhere ( travelocity etc ) there are a whole bunch of owners that are repenting their purchase. Most all of them doesnt knew what they were getting into. TUG on the other hand have users who know what they want and how to use the system. Honestly I discount the negative talk else where and value the feedback form pure point owners here.

 

[Fasttr]

I am one of the folks who GregT referred to....I first purchased the Trust Points from MVC....and later, after discovering TUG, and learning other more cost effective means to add to my vacation ownership, purchased a Grande Ocean week on the resale market (that I use each and every year for stays at Grande Ocean).

I have not really responded to your initial post from a satisfied owner perspective because I am not just a pure Trust points owner as you were seeking input from. That said, since there are perhaps few here that are, I will say that although its a more expensive way into the program, I unfortunately did not own deeded weeks prior to June 2010 that could be enrolled into the system, and I purchased prior to hybrid deals being offered...and as my first purchase into the system, I would never have had the balls to purchase points resale hoping they would work, so I purchased Trust points from the developer. I did know what I was getting into (sort of) as my in-laws have been long time MVC weeks owners, so I was very familiar with the villa product and felt that even though expensive, I could still get long term value from the Trust points.

As somebody who would never rent from an owner or use any of the other myriad of vacation rental sites (too afraid of showing up and it being a scam and there is no room at the Inn for me), I compare my "value" with what I would be paying on Marriott.com (because if not for the ownership, that's where I would be booking) and in doing so, I still see value in my pure Trust points purchase. Granted, it may be a 20 year payback, if I only used what I purchased, but I usually rent additional points (which adds to the value I receive by being a member), and I have rented points for my kids who have also used my membership in the club to get discounted weeks which again adds value, I would say that my payback on my points will certainly be less than my initial 20 year estimate when I take in all of this extra "value" into consideration. Keep in mind, I paid $9.20 per point or so as I got in early, so that helped as well.

Anyhow, to summarize, I am very happy with my Trust points ownership, I have always gotten my desired villa size, view and time period as I plan far enough in advance and I much prefer the instant booking ability of the points program vs the waiting and uncertainty of the II trading system. If I had to do it all over again, I would still buy the Trust points again today as the flexible, go when and where I want to go portion of my vacation portfolio ....but since hybrid deals are available today, and I know what I know, that is the direction I would likely go.

I do however acknowledge that resale weeks are a tremendous value for those locations where you want to always (or at least most of the time) want to return to as we do with our resale Grande Ocean week.

Hope that helps.

 

[VacationForever]

We bought an additonal hybrid package recently to get discounted 60 days booking as well as MRP/SPG platinum level. We do alot of travel outside of timeshare and having hotel upgrades to suite, although not guaranteed, is valuable to us.

 

[Dean]

Thank you David. I already did the calculation and in the process of making a decision. The sole idea of this thread is to get feedback from pure Trust point owners on how favorably they view the system, given the higher cost involved in both buy in and MF.

If you look elsewhere ( travelocity etc ) there are a whole bunch of owners that are repenting their purchase. Most all of them doesnt knew what they were getting into. TUG on the other hand have users who know what they want and how to use the system. Honestly I discount the negative talk else where and value the feedback form pure point owners here.

If I were starting from scratch I wouldn't go points only but for it to be a consideration for me personally, I'd want my main goals to be resorts that are have significant trust inventory and not resorts that are mostly in weeks and thus available for points mainly by those that are enrolled and take points.

 

[rahulgopi]

Update: I gave $15K offer to a 6500 points package. Today got a notification that it failed ROFR and Marriott took it. There are few others in an around the same ballpark, I will try giving slightly more on next one. MF is due and whoever wants to sell are looking to get out, I will keep trying for a decent offer around $2.5 / pt.

 

[JIMinNC]

Update: I gave $15K offer to a 6500 points package. Today got a notification that it failed ROFR and Marriott took it. There are few others in an around the same ballpark, I will try giving slightly more on next one. MF is due and whoever wants to sell are looking to get out, I will keep trying for a decent offer around $2.5 / pt.

Based on the data on ROFR.net, I suspect you will need to pay over $4/point, maybe over $4.50/point to clear ROFR. Something tells me the sales that passed at $2.25 and $2.50 were from brokers or eBay sellers that fold large upfront fees into the price submitted to Marriott or do other "creative" submittals to try to get past the ROFR threshold. That's just a gut feel on my part, based primarily on the fact that ROFR.net has a lot of failures under $4/point. Those that passed at a very low price appear to be outliers, and knowing that there is probably a logical explanation, the way it was submitted seems to be the most logical way to explain such a variation.

 

[VacationForever]

Based on the data on ROFR.net, I suspect you will need to pay over $4/point, maybe over $4.50/point to clear ROFR. Something tells me the sales that passed at $2.25 and $2.50 were from brokers or eBay sellers that fold large upfront fees into the price submitted to Marriott or do other "creative" submittals to try to get past the ROFR threshold. That's just a gut feel on my part, based primarily on the fact that ROFR.net has a lot of failures under $4/point. Those that passed at a very low prices appear to be outliers and knowing that there is probably a logical explanation, the way it was submitted seems to be the most logical way to explain such a variation.

At $4.50 per point + junk fees, one may be better to get a more cost effective hybrid package from Marriott where the week component has better MF/point than the DC MF/point.

 

[GregT]

Update: I gave $15K offer to a 6500 points package. Today got a notification that it failed ROFR and Marriott took it. There are few others in an around the same ballpark, I will try giving slightly more on next one. MF is due and whoever wants to sell are looking to get out, I will keep trying for a decent offer around $2.5 / pt.

Interesting, nice offer.

Do you want to buy a 7,000+ Point package so you are Executive (or whatever it is called). I think there is a big difference in the usage of a 6,500 versus 7,000 Point package.

Another question is if it is easier to buy two 3,500 Point packages. Even with duplicate closing costs, maybe Marriott will let the lower point packages go through? All speculation....

Thoughts? Good luck!

Best,

Greg

 

[rahulgopi]

Yes, my intention is to get a 7k+ account either by combining multiple accounts, pref with same anniversary month for ease of tracking points expiry and usage timeline.

 

[kds4]

Update: I gave $15K offer to a 6500 points package. Today got a notification that it failed ROFR and Marriott took it. There are few others in an around the same ballpark, I will try giving slightly more on next one. MF is due and whoever wants to sell are looking to get out, I will keep trying for a decent offer around $2.5 / pt.

I'm guessing MVCI will appreciate your continued offers at that price (as IMHO they will in all likelihood continue to exercise ROFR each time you find a seller willing to sign a contract below $4 per point plus junk fees/closing costs). Good luck.

 

[GregT]

Yes, my intention is to get a 7k+ account either by combining multiple accounts, pref with same anniversary month for ease of tracking points expiry and usage timeline.

If you are open to multiple accounts, I would consider getting different expiration dates. It’s not that difficult to monitor the point balances and I believe there is a benefit to certain expiration dates.

There is value to being able to cancel a reservation 60 days before check-in and then still being able to bank those points. Calendar year points are good examples because summer travel is so desirable. If plans change and a July or August reservation is canceling, that ressie can be canceled prior to the June 30 normal banking deadline and those points get the extended life.

However, that logic doesn’t apply for a Q4 reservation. Canceling that reservation sixty days before probably loses those points. So a different Usage Period would give you the same flexibility as noted before.

It depends heavily on when you think you will be booking reservations and want to travel.

I think a combination of 3,500 Calendar Year and 3,500 June or September Use Period would work well for me.

Best,

Greg

 

[rahulgopi]

Thank you. It might be easier to get two 3500 account. I will consider that.