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Marriott’s Response to My Letter on Our Cancelled Exchange & How They View Exchanges

Discussion in 'Marriott Vacation Club' started by JIMinNC, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Superchief

    Superchief TUG Member

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    However, a large portion of II exchangers to MVC resorts are MVC owners. They are very shortsighted to not recognize this. My future investment and recommendation decisions regarding MVC will never be the same. I also plan to complain to MVC management as well as the BOD's and GM's at the resort regarding how MVC handled this issue. I hope other owners do the same. TUG members can be a force to reckon with! If we don't speak out now, they will continue to think they can do what they want.
     
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  2. klpca

    klpca TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    It's interesting that you say that. We sold our Marriott weeks because we had too many weeks and not enough time. I figured that I would work through the backlog then buy another resale week - somewhere where we would like to stay - so as to not have to exchange. But after our last presentation (the infamous "Marriott People" presentation), the closer pretending to be insulted that I didn't trust Marriott, the way that resale owners are treated by the company, the skim on DP, and now this, well I am on the fence. Not that it will matter one iota to Marriott - or other owners for that matter. But this just feels like a shift in corporate culture. I just don't understand why they think that they can do whatever they want to do with weeks owned by others. Those weeks are not at their disposal to use however they want.
     
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  3. VacationForever

    VacationForever TUG Member

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    I do not think this entire saga was handled properly. Only recently, we decided to hitch our wagon to the Marriott horse (quoting Jim) and slowly ditching our other timeshares, and we are getting away from II exchanges altogether. At the expense of Marriott owners, Marriott is making their stockholders happy, in which I am not one - but maybe one indirectly through my managed portfolio. At the end of the day, all timeshare systems are out to make the most $ out of their customers and I do believe Marriott is more successful than their counterparts with schemes like skimming off DC/Exchange points. As owners we have to decide who we want to play with. Worldmark is probably the most cost effective and fairest timeshare system for owners but we just sold it off when we decided to focus on Marriott. Our next decision is whether to keep our Vistana timeshare. Sometimes being cost effective or being treated fairly may not be the most important criterion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 3:23 PM
  4. Ralph Sir Edward

    Ralph Sir Edward TUG Member

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    That is always an Individual choice. I personally place treated fairly quite high, but that is me.

    From my observation of the Marriott Timeshare system, there is a clear pecking order.
    #1 - DC/Trust Owners
    #2 - Multi week Owners (Same season)
    #3 - Single Week owners
    #4 - Exchangers

    If you think about the money made off of the customer (both historically and currently), you will notice that this is also the profitability order of the customers.

    Marriott has been steadily trying to separate the "customer" from actual ownership, in which the company acts in a quasi-fiduciary position, maintaining the property owned by (and being paid to provide upkeep for said property) other owners - and not by Marriott! Instead, Marriott seems to view the "owner" as someone to provide the capital to build the timeshare, for Marriott to use as the most profitable way it can for Marriott, without actually breaking any laws.

    If this seems too dark of a viewpoint, I apologise for that, but it is still my evaluation of the situation. For those not concerned by this viewpoint, I wish you happiness and the best enjoyment from your ownership. . .
     
  5. windje2000

    windje2000 TUG Member

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    You may want to read these posts.

    https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...nde-ocean-exchange.262411/page-2#post-2052537

    https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...nde-ocean-exchange.262411/page-5#post-2054762
     
  6. VacationForever

    VacationForever TUG Member

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  7. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Interesting that you state your opinion as a solid fact? I believe that MVC may have setup what amounts to an exchange company, you don't, but I am not sure any of us here can definitively answer that they did or didn't violate any laws.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 5:45 PM
    amycurl and Fasttr like this.
  8. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I don't think anyone has suffered such a loss. Though it is within II's rules that they can do this. For owners at the Westin St John who won't be able to occupy their weeks in early 2018 because of the property being closed, Vistana is telling them that one of their options for use is to deposit their week in to II. I believe that many (some) of these are fixed weeks. So it is definitely accurate to say that these deposits will not be able to put in to the exchange pool.
     
  9. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    If enough people complain, they may at least go with a different option the next time something like this happens.
     
  10. VacationForever

    VacationForever TUG Member

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    Just to clarify... Vistana is asking owners to deposit into II. But obviously these weeks won't be available to be exchanged into. I can imagine if the weeks were deposited before the hurricane hit, the weeks were "available" for exchange and the ones exchanging into these resorts lose the exchange. But after hurricane came through, wouldn't II reject these new deposits?
     
  11. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    No, for owners that are unable to stay in their home unit because it is unavailable, they are telling people that one of their options is to deposit it to II. Owners with StarOptions have the option to use their options within the Vistana Network. However, anyone that owns a resale week at any of the phases except one won't have StarOptions and their only option for use is to trade within II. So they will be pulling something from II but the unit they deposit will be worthless to II. I suspect II and VSN has enough breakage in their system that this won't be an issue.
     
  12. VacationForever

    VacationForever TUG Member

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    never mind... I replied before your msg was finished... :)... although I wonder if anyone of these owners tried depositing into II...
     
  13. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    Stated this way for emphasis, obviously even if I were a lawyer specializing in FL & SC timeshares, it'd still just be an opinion. As I read through the FL statute 721 & SC Title 27/chapter 32; neither would support the position of this issue creating a de facto exchange company and thus violating state rules on the offering of exchange companies.

    As a minimum they'll have the opportunity to better work through the ins and outs of the choices.

    As I understand it, if the week deposited is unavailable, II can and should wipe out the deposit based on their rules. I haven't heard of it happening though but that doesn't mean it hasn't.
     
  14. youppi

    youppi TUG Member

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    They should not cancel based on ownership. They should ask for volunteer first like airline do. If there is no volunteer, they should cancel first people that live close (drive to go there).
    Imagine the nightmare of an exchanger flying for a 3 weeks trip on the US East Coast at 3 different resorts and they cancel the week in the middle. The guy doesn't need a replacement week valid for 1 year, he needs a replacement in the area for that week.
     
  15. Superchief

    Superchief TUG Member

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    We now have at least two confirmed cases of Encore package customers getting priority over MVC owner/exchangers. Encore visits can easily be refunded or rescheduled, while exchanges have MVC weeks deposited and and lost investments. Encore packages should be lowest in priority. The more we allow MVC corporate to take control of inventory, they will abuse their authority and ignore owners rights. Ocean Pointe and Grand Ocean are heavily owned and high demand resorts. There should be very limited inventory that MVC should have access to because few owners redeem for MR points or turn over to Marriott for rental.
     
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  16. BocaBoy

    BocaBoy TUG Member

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  17. BocaBoy

    BocaBoy TUG Member

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    I agree with you.
     
  18. Fairwinds

    Fairwinds TUG Member

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    I deposited my Nov 10 week the minute I saw a picture of a boat on the FC Beach. No cancellations had yet happened but based on my past experience with huricains in that area and the fact that I was just outside the restricted deposit window I rushed to deposit. The week still shows in my II units and I have a pending request. I’m not sure if it’s policy, oversight, or charity but I am grateful to have it as I expected to lose it. I keep thinking they just haven’t caught up with me yet.

    Many years ago I was in PR for Hugo and parts of the Island didn’t get power for months.
     
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  19. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Not sure how you are reading that;

    II Exchange Cancellation Policy — Other than Club Interval Points–Based Exchange Confirmations (a) The only circumstances under which a Member using the Exchange Program may lose the use and occupancy of the Home Resort accommodations or relinquished points (including Preferred Points) without being provided Host Accommodations are if a Member: (i) using the Deposit First method of exchange fails to submit a valid exchange request within the time periods specified; (ii) using the Deposit First method of exchange requests accommodations that are not available and fails to accept any alternate locations and/or time periods offered; (iii) cancels a Confirmation seven days or more prior to the first date of occupancy of the Host Accommodations being canceled and fails to request substitute accommodations in accordance with II’s Exchange Cancellation Policy; (iv) cancels a Confirmation less than seven days prior to the first date of occupancy of the Host Accommodations being canceled; (v) cancels or loses the use of a Confirmation, at any time, due to the threatened or actual damage or destruction of the Host Accommodations; (vi) cancels a Confirmation for substitute Host Accommodations that was previously issued to the Member under II’s Exchange Cancellation Policy; or (vii) where the use of the Home Resort accommodations by II is lost or impaired due to circumstances beyond II’s control.

    In the case of vii, if II loses the use of the home resort accommodation, it seems they could pull your deposit? I would suspect that if you have already stayed in the Host Accommodation, II is out of luck. In either case, these are usually CYA type of situations for the company.

    If I deposit a unit that II can't use, I would suspect II to not allow me to use another week in exchange.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017 at 6:05 PM
  20. VacationForever

    VacationForever TUG Member

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    Whichever II decides to do... in light of this, Vistana's practice of depositing a blended week into II for a floating week ownership is better for the owner, unless the entire resort is unhabitable for the entire use year.
     
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  21. Marathoner

    Marathoner TUG Member

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    As a Marriott multi-week owner, I seem to be in the minority here when I say that I find what Marriott did to be wholly unacceptable. Marriott has two separate roles at our resorts. The first is to clean our toilets (as PerryM used to say) and the second is as an owner of some of the units. The two are completely distinct and what I decide to do with my week, I expect them to honor it as part of the first role that I've hired them to perform. If I decide to deposit my week into into interval, I expect it to be used by Interval exchanger, not to be unilaterally taken by Marriott simply because they've sold an Encore week as part of their second role so that they can simply sell more points. This was not an emergency situation or anything like that, this is simply greed by Marriott.

    Perhaps an analogy would help people to become more passionate about their rights regarding their owned week. Lets say I have a vacation home and I've hired a cleaner/handyman to maintain my vacation home. For one week, lets say I've swapped my vacation home with another family's home and I've told the cleaner/handyman to give them my keys for that week. The week before the house swap a really bad storm comes in and damages some of the homes in the town but my vacation home is fine. Afterwards, I've found out that the cleaner/handyman called up the other family a day before they arrived to say that my vacation home is not available due to the storm. Now, the cleaner/handyman is successful and so he has bought a number of other vacation properties across town over the years. And some of them have been damaged so he allowed his own guests to use my vacation home so that he didn't have to refund their money. He never told me he was doing this and I had to piece all this together by doing a bit of detective work.

    If this happened in real life, I'm sure we would all fire that cleaner/handyman and hire another one called "Park Hyatt" or "Four Seasons" or "Conrad/Hilton". I, for one, would pay more to hire a cleaner/handyman that was trustworthy and wouldn't put their interests ahead of my own.

    The bottom line is that I think we should all be outraged and have the board of the affected properties put Marriott in their place. I do not own at Hilton Head but if this happened at one of the resorts that I owned at, I would be much more vigilant and active about this situation.
     
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  22. VacationForever

    VacationForever TUG Member

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    The are several issues in the timeshare world that is different from the scenario described by you.

    Firstly, from II's response, it appears that II and Marriott collaborated in the action of cancelling II exchangers out. I believe II should be held as accountable as Marriott. We do not have visibility of the contract between II and Marriott, but it might have included a clause that II will give up its rights to the units whenever Marriott informs II that the units are no longer available. But since we, the II exchangers, give our $ to II, we should press for changes in their dealings with Marriott.

    Secondly, there is not a specific unit tied with ownership in a timeshare system. Timeshare is unlike owning your own home where you know for certain whether your home is damaged or not. Timesharing throws everything into a pot. What Marriott owners can request for is a ledger of proportion of Marriott owned weeks vs. owner weeks and to make sure that in future, that the available units are allocated in proportion. I think By Laws and such will need to be changed, and good luck with that...

    It is impossible to boot Marriott out and hire a different cleaner/handyman - that is why Marriott has the upper hand.
     
  23. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Not necessarily all that different. Some of the HHI properties are fixed unit fixed week. So those are more like traditional real estate, you just happen to own a small slice of time. Floating week, floating unit doesn't necessarily change that it is real ownership behind all the weeks that were reserved. In the end, the exchange companies are a puppet to the developers. If II were to ever lose the Marriott affiliation, it would be devastating to their bottom line. So when Marriott says "jump", II doesn't even take time to ask "how high", they just do it.
     
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  24. bazzap

    bazzap TUG Member

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    Also,at some resorts anyway, it is possible to boot Marriott out and hire a different cleaner/handyman.
    It is difficult to imagine situations where this might be the best outcome for owners, but I have seen a HOPA agreement which provides for a process to allow this for failure to perform.
     
  25. Ralph Sir Edward

    Ralph Sir Edward TUG Member

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    Superchief, of course this is the case. Encore package customers are the hottest sales prospects they have. Sales takes precedence over everything else. . . .
     

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