Man leaves US to avoid paying student debt

[joestein]

I honestly don't think that an 18 year old has the financial sense to understand the ramifications of being in substantial debt just to get a college degree. But their parents should understand, and certainly the colleges and universities know and understand this, yet they do very little to steer the kids away from taking on life changing amounts of debt. My personal belief is that the colleges and universities should be held accountable for the amount of debt that they encourage the kids to assume, although I don't know how to effectively do this.

I know this might not sound nice, but the parents are usually just as uninformed as the students. Most of them probably are in over their head with debt as well.

It is the adults that live their life responsibly that help guide their kids properly.

It is my observation that the people who have the least assets (which are the most irresponsible in many cases) are the ones who spend the most on college. Most responsible adults who can afford to spend are the ones who look to keep the cost down the most.

Joe

 

[joestein]

I can’t help but be very critical. “Albright graduated in 2007, at the start of the Great Recession...Albright said he continued delivering pizzas and applying for jobs in public relations.”

I’m guessing it didn’t occur to him to consider other fields aside from PR or simply other jobs.

There were times in graduate school when my husband and I had 5 jobs between the 2 of us. It was a crazy thing to do. All of our classmates were taking out student loans but we didn’t we didn’t want to.

I knew one guy who alternated working full time one semester and going to school full time the next.

Fleeing the country to avoid paying 20-30,000 is so extreme. Do they never plan on returning? Will they give up their citizenship?

This is definitely not a well thought out plan.

In his case, it is over $200K.

 

[Ken555]

I know this might not sound nice, but the parents are usually just as uninformed as the students. Most of them probably are in over their head with debt as well.

It is the adults that live their life responsibly that help guide their kids properly.

It is my observation that the people who have the least assets (which are the most irresponsible in many cases) are the ones who spend the most on college. Most responsible adults who can afford to spend are the ones who look to keep the cost down the most.

Joe

I agree. Also, I agree with you it is these same people who make other poor financial decisions... crazy mortgages, etc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ken555]

In his case, it is over $200K.

From the article:

When he graduated, Albright estimated he owed $30,000 in student loans.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[wilma]

I think I recall that Sarah Palin did something like this...

George

An inspiration to all!

 

[Ken555]

20k is nothing for today’s graduates. Most students graduate w/ at least 50k-100k for an under graduate.

From the article:

According to Forbes, the average student from the Class of 2017 graduated with $37,172 in loan debt.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ken555]

An inspiration to all!

Not to magazine publishers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[WVBaker]

I know this might not sound nice, but the parents are usually just as uninformed as the students. Most of them probably are in over their head with debt as well.

It is the adults that live their life responsibly that help guide their kids properly.

It is my observation that the people who have the least assets (which are the most irresponsible in many cases) are the ones who spend the most on college. Most responsible adults who can afford to spend are the ones who look to keep the cost down the most.

Joe

Your theory on uninformed parents may hold water however, many of these parents, for one reason or another, simply could not attend college. This of course leads to the fact that they don't understand college or the cost to attend. What they do understand however, is that they want a better life for their children.

Please keep in mind that succumbing to debt doesn't automatically define them as irresponsible. Sometime those issues that cause debt simply cannot be avoided. Life isn't always fair and balanced.

 

[PigsDad]

20k is nothing for today’s graduates. Most students graduate w/ at least 50k-100k for an under graduate.

Those seem like very high numbers. Do you have any references to back up those numbers?

For reference, this is what I have found (2017 data):

The average student loan debt last year for graduates of four-year colleges who took out loans was $28,650, according to the latest version of an annual report from the Institute for College Access and Success (TICAS). The average amount was up $300, or 1 percent, from 2016.

Reference: https://www.insidehighered.com/quic...-loan-debt-graduates-four-year-colleges-28650

Kurt

 

[Brett]

Not to magazine publishers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

certainly an inspiration to future reality TV stars .... (who want to avoid student loan debt)

 

[Ken555]

certainly an inspiration to future reality TV stars .... (who want to avoid student loan debt)

Perhaps! I didn’t know this about Palin, so just looked it up and the first link took me to this:

Tuition at the university ranged from $485 a semester to $520 by the time Palin graduated. Generous educational loans from the state of Alaska helped her pay her way. So did beauty pageants.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-21-na-palincollege21-story.html

I wasn’t able to quickly find any reference to how fast she paid off her loans. I’m now curious. I did find a reference that she went to six schools in six years, though...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jehb2]

In his case, it is over $200K.

Who? This is the quote from the article. “When he graduated, Albright estimated he owed $30,000 in student loans...Haag graduated in 2011 with $20,000 in debt.”

 

[Passepartout]

Who? This is the quote from the article. “When he graduated, Albright estimated he owed $30,000 in student loans...Haag graduated in 2011 with $20,000 in debt.”

Heck, at least they got an education (presumably) worth SOMETHING. A 'free' 3-night vacation at Westgate and a couple of signatures can saddle a young couple with at least this much debt and it isn't and never will be worth ANYTHING!

We've advised LOTS of these people how to get out of it, and I don't recall EVER suggesting they leave the country. . . . .Maybe? . . .

Jim

 

[joestein]

From the article:



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My bad. I mixed it up with a similar article on Yahoo.

 

[joestein]

Your theory on uninformed parents may hold water however, many of these parents, for one reason or another, simply could not attend college. This of course leads to the fact that they don't understand college or the cost to attend. What they do understand however, is that they want a better life for their children.

Please keep in mind that succumbing to debt doesn't automatically define them as irresponsible. Sometime those issues that cause debt simply cannot be avoided. Life isn't always fair and balanced.

Here is how I see it. Most of the people we know are financially in good shape. Maybe not rich, but comfortable. Families making $150K - $300K+. Almost all of them are sending their kids to 2 years of community college to save the tution on the first 2 years. Many of them are insisting that their kids go to Rutgers for the next two while living at home. Some I know from NYS are insisting the kids go to a SUNY/CUNY school.

The one family we know who is up to their eyeballs in debt and are always showing off what they have think their daughter needs the experience of going away to an out of state school.
My neighbors who dont have money, their daughter went to 2 years of U of Delaware and then 2 years to FIT. Their son went to Rutgers, but he lived at campus rather than at home, which is just 25 mins away by car.

I am planning to send my kids to 2 years at community college and 2 years to Rutgers (this part can change based upon their needs). They can live at home. We have already saved enough in their 529 plans to cover this ($200/month since birth each). We are buying them a car to share this year as they are getting their learners permit. When they go to college, one can have the car and the other can get our current car and we will buy a new one for ourselves.

My kids think this is great as they do not want to start life with any college debt. We will be flexible within reason. One of my daughters wants to be a dentist, I am sure we will pay the majority of the tution if she gets in. But to me that is a solid investment in her future.

 

[WVBaker]

Here is how I see it. Most of the people we know are financially in good shape. Maybe not rich, but comfortable. Families making $150K - $300K+. Almost all of them are sending their kids to 2 years of community college to save the tution on the first 2 years. Many of them are insisting that their kids go to Rutgers for the next two while living at home. Some I know from NYS are insisting the kids go to a SUNY/CUNY school.

The one family we know who is up to their eyeballs in debt and are always showing off what they have think their daughter needs the experience of going away to an out of state school.
My neighbors who dont have money, their daughter went to 2 years of U of Delaware and then 2 years to FIT. Their son went to Rutgers, but he lived at campus rather than at home, which is just 25 mins away by car.

I am planning to send my kids to 2 years at community college and 2 years to Rutgers (this part can change based upon their needs). They can live at home. We have already saved enough in their 529 plans to cover this ($200/month since birth each). We are buying them a car to share this year as they are getting their learners permit. When they go to college, one can have the car and the other can get our current car and we will buy a new one for ourselves.

My kids think this is great as they do not want to start life with any college debt. We will be flexible within reason. One of my daughters wants to be a dentist, I am sure we will pay the majority of the tution if she gets in. But to me that is a solid investment in her future.

Understand, I commend you for the success you've found. You've laid out your plans for your children very well it seems and by the way, I agree, Rutgers is a fine institution. What I don't think we should do is base our opinion of any parent's sense of responsibility or lack of, simply on their debt situation. You're welcome to judge that family you know however, we can't judge all parents with debt problems on one or two individuals. All "debt" is not the same just like all families are not the same.

For me, assets or lack of, doesn't always determine a person's sense of responsibility. Same with an individual's debt ratio.

 

[Luanne]

I am planning to send my kids to 2 years at community college and 2 years to Rutgers (this part can change based upon their needs). They can live at home. We have already saved enough in their 529 plans to cover this ($200/month since birth each). We are buying them a car to share this year as they are getting their learners permit. When they go to college, one can have the car and the other can get our current car and we will buy a new one for ourselves.

My kids think this is great as they do not want to start life with any college debt. We will be flexible within reason. One of my daughters wants to be a dentist, I am sure we will pay the majority of the tution if she gets in. But to me that is a solid investment in her future.

Sounds like a plan, but like any plan, it can change. Does this take into account your children's needs? What if Rutgers isn't the right school for them? I'm sure they'd love to get through college with no debt. But going to a particular school just to achieve that one goal might not be in their best interests.

 

[klpca]

Here is how I see it. Most of the people we know are financially in good shape. Maybe not rich, but comfortable. Families making $150K - $300K+. Almost all of them are sending their kids to 2 years of community college to save the tution on the first 2 years. Many of them are insisting that their kids go to Rutgers for the next two while living at home. Some I know from NYS are insisting the kids go to a SUNY/CUNY school.

The one family we know who is up to their eyeballs in debt and are always showing off what they have think their daughter needs the experience of going away to an out of state school.
My neighbors who dont have money, their daughter went to 2 years of U of Delaware and then 2 years to FIT. Their son went to Rutgers, but he lived at campus rather than at home, which is just 25 mins away by car.

I am planning to send my kids to 2 years at community college and 2 years to Rutgers (this part can change based upon their needs). They can live at home. We have already saved enough in their 529 plans to cover this ($200/month since birth each). We are buying them a car to share this year as they are getting their learners permit. When they go to college, one can have the car and the other can get our current car and we will buy a new one for ourselves.

My kids think this is great as they do not want to start life with any college debt. We will be flexible within reason. One of my daughters wants to be a dentist, I am sure we will pay the majority of the tution if she gets in. But to me that is a solid investment in her future.

Very interesting. I don't personally know anyone who is sending their kids to community college - not saying that it is a bad idea, just saying that we have two very different experiences. Maybe it's the area where we live.

I'm genuinely curious how you know how much people earn and how much debt they carry? Do you all discuss it openly? My own kids and family have no idea what we make, and I'd be very surprised if my neighbors knew either. We keep things very close to the vest and live (outwardly) well below our means. I'm pretty sure that our relatives have no idea either because the one relative that is always borrowing from other family members has never approached us. I figure that either they know that I would never say yes or they think that we can't swing it. Whatever, it works for us. We met a couple on a trip who kept asking us what our retirement number was, lol. Like we would tell some virtual stranger something that personal. But now I'm wondering if others share that information more freely than we do.

 

[Luanne]

Very interesting. I don't personally know anyone who is sending their kids to community college - not saying that it is a bad idea, just saying that we have two very different experiences. Maybe it's the area where we live.

I'm genuinely curious how you know how much people earn and how much debt they carry? Do you all discuss it openly? My own kids and family have no idea what we make, and I'd be very surprised if my neighbors knew either. We keep things very close to the vest and live (outwardly) well below our means. I'm pretty sure that our relatives have no idea either because the one relative that is always borrowing from other family members has never approached us. I figure that either they know that I would never say yes or they think that we can't swing it. Whatever, it works for us. We met a couple on a trip who kept asking us what our retirement number was, lol. Like we would tell some virtual stranger something that personal. But now I'm wondering if others share that information more freely than we do.

We had one daughter go to community college first, the other one didn't. One of my co-workers older son went to community college for a couple of reasons. One was cost. The other was the community college he went to was known as somewhat of a "feeder" school for UC Berkeley. And sure enough, he completed his education there.

 

[klpca]

The other was the community college he went to was known as somewhat of a "feeder" school for UC Berkeley. And sure enough, he completed his education there.

An excellent reason to go the CC route!

I thought about this some more and realized that I know two kids in cc. One for just a year as he was in between the out of state school that he went to after hs graduation, and the UC where he transferred after the CC year. The other kid is on year 4 at CC. I know that her dad just closed the "bank of dad" since she hasn't made much forward progress. (Damn kids, lol)

I have no issue with CC - especially the TAG program to get into the UC's. In our area the push for 4 year college starts in elementary school. The classrooms are decorated with banners and pennants from different universities, and one of the dress up days is "college day" where you wear a shirt etc from your favorite university. It creates an interesting dynamic. I hadn't thought about it until today. Everyone seems to go straight into a 4 year university or the military. I'm sure that there are kids going to the CC's though, they are certainly popular.

 

[Luanne]

An excellent reason to go the CC route!

I thought about this some more and realized that I know two kids in cc. One for just a year as he was in between the out of state school that he went to after hs graduation, and the UC where he transferred after the CC year. The other kid is on year 4 at CC. I know that her dad just closed the "bank of dad" since she hasn't made much forward progress. (Damn kids, lol)

I have no issue with CC - especially the TAG program to get into the UC's. In our area the push for 4 year college starts in elementary school. The classrooms are decorated with banners and pennants from different universities, and one of the dress up days is "college day" where you wear a shirt etc from your favorite university. It creates an interesting dynamic. I hadn't thought about it until today. Everyone seems to go straight into a 4 year university or the military. I'm sure that there are kids going to the CC's though, they are certainly popular.

My dd who went to community college was kind of disenchanted with school in general and basically it was community college or find a job where she could support herself. She put in a few years, then transferred to Evergreen State College (as an out of state student) and did very well. Younger dd got into her dream school, but they didn't offer much of anything in the way of financial aid. So she ended up at a second choice which gave her a very large scholarship based on her grades. So while both of them did incur debt it wasn't as large as some, and both of them have paid their debts off in full.

 

[geist1223]

Son went to Harvard on NROTC. Told him that yes he would owe the Navy 4 years. But after Navy he would still have Harvard on his resume'. Now he works for Goldman Sachs. Daughter went to Dartmouth on scholarships and a little help from me ($500 per month). But she got her PHD via the Navy and she is a Clinical Psychologist in the Navy.

So there are routes that do not involve taking on massive debt.

 

[rapmarks]

I agree totally that some students should be going to trade school, rather that four year colleges. My perspective comes from teaching high school over a 35 year span. I have seen high school doing away with vocational programs, partly because of inability to find teachers.
But one aspect bothers me about the trades, that is the benefits. No sick days. My son in law was a pipe fitter and a sprinkler fitter, he was laid off most of 2009 and 2010. He started working on the road, got a per diem, but the motels were e xpensive in the areas he found work. at age 36 he had a heart attack on a Tuesday and the family had to force him to stay home, he had a stroke that Thursday and by Monday his insurance was cancelled, he received no more paychecks.
I paid for my kids college all the way throughmasters degree, at community college and state colleges. They both make over a hundred thousand a year with good benefits and both have received accolades in their fields. My nieces that went to Vassar don’t make anywhere near as much.

 

[geist1223]

Part of the problem is that for the last 50 to 60 years Colleges and Universities have been increasing fees and tuition on an annual basis well exceeding increases in CPI. Sometimes by 2X or 3X the increase in CPI.

 

[geekette]

But now I'm wondering if others share that information more freely than we do.

No. Where I come from, it is crass to discuss money. I would never dream of asking, and I would not tell.

If someone at the vacation pool asks my retirement number, I tell them I don't have one. I can retire when my div income exceeds my monthly expenses. It's not what you have, it's what you spend. No actual numbers needed for that concept.