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Man leaves US to avoid paying student debt

Discussion in 'TUG Lounge' started by Patri, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Patri

    Patri Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Snazzylass likes this.
  2. bbodb1

    bbodb1 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Notice what the article fails to mention - the degrees earned - IF the student actually earned a degree.

    With such a prolifereation of meaningless degrees that lead to useless job skills, colleges and universities need to be pressured toward ensuring their degrees have some relevance to the current work force.
    Additionally, the college lending program needs to be reformed in such a way to ensure student progress in meaningful degrees. There is an easy solution to this by making student debt dischargeable.

    If student debt could be discharged, lenders would be forced to take a more active interest in student progress (including performance AND the degree being sought). Additionally, it would be in lenders best interest to ensure the degree programs in colleges and universities are of sufficient academic rigor so they lead to jobs. This would bring long needed pressure to reform college and university curriculums. The most important change needed at present is for all three legs of the triangle (student, colleges/universities/business sector) to work together to reform the college experience.

    If a student graduates and cannot find a job in their field, they should not have to replay a loan. This change forces lenders to bring pressure on our higher educational system to reform the educational process to better align with current workforce needs. Students who are not pursuing degrees sought by the lender can either look elsewhere (another lender) or pay out of pocket.

    The bottom line is this - college is filled with far too many useless courses and degrees - a process that need not take four years to complete. Reform is needed now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  3. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

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    This country would have been better off if Student Debt and Credit Card Debt had never been invented...

    George
     
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  4. klpca

    klpca TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I would have never been able to go to school without it. My parents didn't see the need for college so I had to pay for four years of tuition and living expenses the whole thing without help. (To be fair, my mom did help a bit the first year once she saw that I was actually going to go to school, but after year one I was on my own). I received academic scholarships, need based grants, work study, and student loans.

    My kids all graduated from state universities with no student debt. Primarily because we told them that we couldn't foot the bill for a private university and we didn't want them to start their adult life in a bunch of debt. I honestly don't think that an 18 year old has the financial sense to understand the ramifications of being in substantial debt just to get a college degree. But their parents should understand, and certainly the colleges and universities know and understand this, yet they do very little to steer the kids away from taking on life changing amounts of debt. My personal belief is that the colleges and universities should be held accountable for the amount of debt that they encourage the kids to assume, although I don't know how to effectively do this.
     
  5. klpca

    klpca TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I do agree to some extent with your basic premise, George. It has caused a lot of problems for a lot of people who aren't good at managing money.
     
  6. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

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    I volunteered for the draft during the Korean War to get the GI Bill to pay for college. My Son joined the Marine Corps for the same reason. Where their is a will, there is a way...

    George
     
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  7. Luanne

    Luanne TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    That worked for you and your son. Not everyone is physically, or mentally, able to enlist in the service.
     
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  8. PigsDad

    PigsDad TUG Member

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    Great responses. I also think that many kids that go off to college would be better off going to trade school. There are some great trades out there where one can have a good career, earn a very good living, all without spending 4+ years in college mounting up major student loan debt. Unfortunately, trade schools have gotten out of favor by most people these days, and it seems like there is a lot of pressure for young people to "get a degree", because they are told that is the only way they will be successful. Learning a marketable trade will get you much farther in life than that History or French Literature degree, IMO.

    Kurt
     
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  9. SteelerGal

    SteelerGal TUG Member

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    Trade schools are even worse. My nephews looked into auto mechanic program and it amounted to close to $100k. Your first job will not pay enough to cover the loans.
    Our education system is for profit and it includes many of our esteemed universities and colleges.
     
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  10. bbodb1

    bbodb1 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Far too many states have backed away from what used to be a viable VoTech system. Arkansas has let theirs almost fade into oblivion over the years because it was viewed as "not college" when the push started to get all high school kids to attend college come hell or high water (meaning with no regard toward whether the individual was actually ready for college). It was a bad decision then because we need auto mechanics and welders (among other VoTech skill sets) and they offer a good standard of living with a very low tuition.

    As SteelerGal notes above, the private (for profit) sector tries to fill in the gaps but it too charges way too much (and thus places a crushing debt load on students).
     
  11. PigsDad

    PigsDad TUG Member

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    Yes, unfortunately for profit trade schools can be very expensive, but there are plenty of trades that one can get into that are nowhere near $100K and still provide great career and earning potential.

    Kurt
     
  12. SteelerGal

    SteelerGal TUG Member

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    Luckily our family has been in the trucking business for 3 generations so if you decide college or military isn’t for you, you have a trade w/ connections already established. Unfortunately many children do not have that option and our education system does not offer feasible options.
     
  13. pedro47

    pedro47 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    IMO, every high school graduate should not be steered toward college or a community college. I wish Voc Tech Schools and government sponsored trade schools would step up and recruit students toward the trades liked pipe fitters, welders, plumbers, carpenters, computer repair technicians, brickmason, truck drivers, nursing assistance, etc.
     
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  14. Tank

    Tank TUG Member

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    Trouble is any of these classes are the first canceled in High Schools do to lack of funding in our area so one doesn't get a chance to see what kind of skill or interest one might have.
    Woods , metals, home improvement , home ec , unless you go to the vocational school.
    I had all those classes in highschool and learned to cook, sew, work with wood, and ended up in a HVAC working with metal.

    None of these were available for my kids , all classes cut do to no funds.
     
  15. kanerf

    kanerf TUG Member

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    Always get a degree in a field that actually pays a decent salary. Most of these folks that are running away from their debt probably received useless degree's in not technical subjects.
     
  16. Ken555

    Ken555 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    “Always”? I earned a history degree. It’s not practical, doesn’t pay a “decent salary”, and yet I was able to find a job and use my education to my advantage.

    I believe it’s not just a chosen education path that dictates success, but also personality. We don’t do a good job nurturing that, nor many other practical skills which could help. Of course, we also penalize students in many ways, such as the ease of acquiring student debt, cost of higher education as compared to other countries, the lack of options for those who find themselves without the ability to pay, and more.

    Our society has numerous issues, of which student debt is symptomatic of the larger picture. If this thread continues it will violate TUG policy, so I’ll stop here though I would like nothing more than to have a civil conversation about this issue, since it’s difficult to discuss a small part of the issue while ignoring the reasons for its existence.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  17. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

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    The HS I graduated from in suburban Philadelphia, PA way back in 1953 had an excellent VoTech system. I'm guessing that 30% of my HS class were enrolled in VoTech. Hopefully they still have it...

    George
     
  18. am1

    am1 TUG Member

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    More power to them although in any other circumstances I feel university debt should be collected by any means. They will be in for a rude awakening if they decide to move back and have to buy a house/condo. Not just their credit score but the price. $1000/month may cut it in China but not in most places.

    Better of to have taken out credit cards and paid off the student loans and then default on the credit cards.
     
  19. Ken555

    Ken555 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Yes, and this gets into those controversial topics that violate TUG policy...as to why it’s better to default on credit cards than student debt.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  20. geist1223

    geist1223 Guest

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    Many of the Unions in Oregon have been advertising for Apprentices.
     
  21. geekette

    geekette Guest

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    I am not sure one can outrun their student loans. Pretty sure it isn't wise to have your name publicized if this is your plan. Life is long and the globe seems a lot smaller than it used to be. If living elsewhere is your dream, rock on, but honor your debts.

    I hope these aren't the same people that will be whining about where is their SS when they chose to avoid participating here. Even if they get their 40 quarters in, could be that any SS benefit would be seized to satisfy old loans.
     
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  22. jehb2

    jehb2 TUG Member

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    I can’t help but be very critical. “Albright graduated in 2007, at the start of the Great Recession...Albright said he continued delivering pizzas and applying for jobs in public relations.”

    I’m guessing it didn’t occur to him to consider other fields aside from PR or simply other jobs.

    There were times in graduate school when my husband and I had 5 jobs between the 2 of us. It was a crazy thing to do. All of our classmates were taking out student loans but we didn’t we didn’t want to.

    I knew one guy who alternated working full time one semester and going to school full time the next.

    Fleeing the country to avoid paying 20-30,000 is so extreme. Do they never plan on returning? Will they give up their citizenship?

    This is definitely not a well thought out plan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  23. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

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    I think I recall that Sarah Palin did something like this...

    George
     
  24. SteelerGal

    SteelerGal TUG Member

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    20k is nothing for today’s graduates. Most students graduate w/ at least 50k-100k for an under graduate. Graduate tends to be subsidized in certain fields such as science. However MBAs, law, etc are not. All on you.
    2 yrs ago I was interested in getting my MSW(Social Work). A career change that always interested me. 50k for accelerated program. If I tried to go State school route, it would take twice as long because of the # of students. I choose not to, because eventual employment would not cover the loan repayment. Instead I will eventually work for a non profit advocacy project.
     
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  25. mjm1

    mjm1 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    We paid most of our son’s way through four years at San Diego State although he did work part time for some spending money. He wanted to become a Physical Therapist, so he needed to complete a Doctorate of Physical Therapy, which was an additional three years. He earned a small scholarship, but ended up with approximately $70k of student loans. He got married during that time too. He and his wife followed the Dave Ramsey approach, were very aggressive and paid off the student loans in 18 months. Of course he had a good job, but it still took a great deal of focus and commitment to get the job done so quickly.

    I do agree with others who shared that too many students get degrees that aren’t marketable. It’s almost as bad as buying a timeshare without learning how to use it.

    Best regards.

    Mike
     
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