Is 2019 the 'Year of the Timeshare'? [Marriott/Vistana/Hyatt in the DC speculation]

[JIMinNC]

The details of what I read had nothing to do with an integrated product or the ILG acquisition. Also, the commission is not in the range you describe.

Trying to get away from the "my resort is better than your garbage" discussion and back to your initial post.

I'm not sure I understand exactly which message you are trying to convey about what you were told. In different conversations in this thread it sounded like it could be either of the two following general messages:

1) Don't buy resale points now because changes are coming that could make those resale points less useful/more restricted.
2) Don't buy resale points now because changes are coming that will bring new and improved opportunities (presumably for developer purchases), so it may be better to wait and decide your options after those changes are announced.

I understand that you may want to be careful what you say if you feel that you were told something that most weren't told, and you want to protect the people who told you; but can you clarify which of the above is the general message you were told and which you are trying to convey?

 

[CPNY]

I also own both systems and have had tremendous experiences at both properties. I love MOC, WKORV, WPORV, Ritz STT, Ko Olina, Grande Ocean (Hilton Head), Park City (both properties), Boston, Aruba Ocean Club, and Lagunamar have had mostly great experiences at any of my timeshares. I think the quality is very good or better at all properties. There are a couple that I think are below that level, but that is the exception.

When DC was introduced, everyone was concerned it was going to kill the Interval trading experience. It hasn’t killed it, but has made uptrading more rare. I’ve continued to have good experience with Interval trades (with my preference).

I think StarOption traders will continue to experience success and I think I will continue to access WPORV with my StarOptions. And those VSN owners who wish to participate will now be able to easily access Aruba/Hilton Head/Park City, or whatever location they choose that is dependent on II trades now.

From a speculation perspective, I think there will be an exchange ratio (30:1?) for StarOptions to/from DC points and then after the exchange the user still uses the existing systems rules (8 months out for VSN, etc).

In time, I speculate VSN weeks will be assigned a DC point total and be able to be redeemed directly for DC points. We will see.

I think it will be a positive for both parties - access to new locations but respecting the existing rights (and experience) or current owners.

But all speculation at this point. I do think Aruba in particular has appeal to VSN owners, who were disappointed when the Westin Aruba was canceled. I am sure Marriott will heavily promote Aruba when trying to market to Starwood owners.

Interesting stuff.....

Best,

Greg

I agree, with that you say. I was one who was not happy when Westin Aruba was cancelled. Bad timing or whatever the case was. At an update in Aruba they towed the line that many owners either defaulted in their units and they have plenty of inventory. I take that with a grain of salt. I have no desire to go to Cancun but if I did I’m sure I would enjoy the lagunmar

 

[CPNY]

Trying to get away from the "my resort is better than your garbage" discussion and back to your initial post.

I'm not sure I understand exactly which message you are trying to convey about what you were told. In different conversations in this thread it sounded like it could be either of the two following general messages:

1) Don't buy resale points now because changes are coming that could make those resale points less useful/more restricted.
2) Don't buy resale points now because changes are coming that will bring new and improved opportunities (presumably for developer purchases), so it may be better to wait and decide your options after those changes are announced.

I understand that you may want to be careful what you say if you feel that you were told something that most weren't told, and you want to protect the people who told you; but can you clarify which of the above is the general message you were told and which you are trying to convey?

Keep in mind...... he was told something or showed something by a sales guy who asked him to promise not to tell anyone, THEN he signed in the line to BUY MORE points. Bottom line is, he took the bait and is trying to justify that he knows something we all don’t and his purchase before prices went up was a smart move. That’s the bottom line.

 

[JIMinNC]

Keep in mind...... he was told something or showed something by a sales guy who asked him to promise not to tell anyone, THEN he signed in the line to BUY MORE points. Bottom line is, he took the bait and is trying to justify that he knows something we all don’t and his purchase before prices went up was a smart move. That’s the bottom line.

For sure it's prudent to take what is said in any sales presentation with a very large grain of salt but, from time-to-time in the past, TUGgers on this Marriott board have picked up hints of program changes from sales reps a few weeks or months ahead of the formal announcement. Sometimes these hints proved to be spot on, other times not so much. As a result, it's always interesting to read the info, but always to look at it in context of where it came from.

It's also important to understand the knowledge and experience level of the TUGger posting the information. Since you are a VSE owner, you may not be aware of who on the Marriott board are the more knowledgeable and experienced owners. The OP in this thread, kds4, is a long-time poster on this board and is an informed and knowledgeable owner. As I noted in post #99, there are a couple of situations where a developer points purchase from MVC can be price-competitive with resale MVC points, so just because someone "took the bait" doesn't mean they are a typical uninformed buyer. Based on my experience with the OP here on the Marriott board, I believe that kds4 is the type of owner who understands how the MVC system works, and who probably made an informed decision, based on more than just what they were told in the presentation.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Speculation and discussion on this is very interesting (some great ideas!).

I think we can all agree that some type of change "may" be coming in the future. What we can't agree on is how extensive these changes will be and exactly when they will be implemented.

It will be interesting to see what the future will bring to the affected owners!






.

 

[CPNY]

For sure it's prudent to take what is said in any sales presentation with a very large grain of salt, but from time-to-time in the past, TUGgers on this Marriott board have picked up hints of program changes from sales reps a few weeks or months ahead of the formal announcement. Sometimes these hints proved to be spot on, other times not so much. As a result, it's always interesting to read the info, but always to look at it in context of where it came from.

It's also important to understand the knowledge and experience level of the TUGger posting the information. Since you are a VSE owner, you may not be aware of who on the Marriott board are the more knowledgeable and experienced owners. The OP in this thread, kds4, is a long-time poster on this board and is an informed and knowledgeable owner. As I noted in post #99, there are a couple of situations where a developer points purchase from MVC can be price-competitive with resale MVC points, so just because someone "took the bait" doesn't mean they are a typical uninformed buyer. Based on my experience with the OP here on the Marriott board, I believe that kds4 is the type of owner who understands how the MVC system works, and who probably made an informed decision.

So you’re saying that MVC is informing their owners of new programs coming and to buy more now but the Vistana sales reps aren’t? I wonder if there are legal implications if the sales guys know what’s coming but isn’t telling everyone? Is that like withholding information? If the OP is savvy and most knowledgeable owners as all MVC owners are, and he was told as he said that only MVC owners will be able to book into all resorts but all VSN members won’t be able to I’d wonder if that’s fraudulent on the new sales on the other side? Making them buy more after signing on the dotted line on a new contract now to be enrolled. It’s apparent that if they all know what’s coming and one side would be “screwed” and have to buy more I’d say that’s a slimy company and one I wouldn’t want to give anymore money too lol. Once again, makes no difference to me as I don’t intend on booking any MVC property, since I tend to go back to my old home resort and occasionally ski in beaver creek.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The original post was vague. I was at a presentation in Ko Olina early May. I heard nothing to make me believe that there would be any mixing of the two systems. But they got you to buy, so good on 'em. I would have to get a smokin' deal with 0% interest to take advantage of anything they offered us in May.

I can see II giving access to all preference of Vistana and Marriott to every owner. That might be bad for both sides. I bought Marriott specifically for Marriott preference in II. I bought Sheraton for preference as well.

 

[kds4]

So you’re saying that MVC is informing their owners of new programs coming and to buy more now but the Vistana sales reps aren’t? I wonder if there are legal implications if the sales guys know what’s coming but isn’t telling everyone? Is that like withholding information? If the OP is savvy and most knowledgeable owners as all MVC owners are, and he was told as he said that only MVC owners will be able to book into all resorts but all VSN members won’t be able to I’d wonder if that’s fraudulent on the new sales on the other side? Making them buy more after signing on the dotted line on a new contract now to be enrolled. It’s apparent that if they all know what’s coming and one side would be “screwed” and have to buy more I’d say that’s a slimy company and one I wouldn’t want to give anymore money too lol. Once again, makes no difference to me as I don’t intend on booking any MVC property, since I tend to go back to my old home resort and occasionally ski in beaver creek.

What I'm saying is that Marriott is adding benefits to the ownership of those who own/enrolled in the Marriott Destination Points program. Any comments I have posted related to the ILG acquisition (and the companies acquired in it) is only speculation based solely on what I heard in the meeting.

 

[CPNY]

Speculation and discussion on this is very interesting (some great ideas!).

I think we can all agree that some type of change "may" be coming in the future. What we can't agree on is how extensive these changes will be and exactly when they will be implemented.

It will be interesting to see what the future will bring to the affected owners!






.

Apparently it’s not speculation and the OP who is most knowledgeable knows something. Which is apparently a fact. So, it’s being said that the facts are that MVC Points owners can book any resort they want whenever they want but all other owners will be forced to buy interests in the MVC points program to cross book.

I’ll just say, any VSN owner who actually spends thousands of dollars more to occasionally book a Marriott resort is..........with the exception of those that don’t have star option capabilities.

I’d rather rent and pay the equivalent to annual fees to visit other resorts. NOW, if MVC said you can book our new airbnb style program and get Airbnb’s for points maybe I’d think about it. Almost 70% of my travel these days is staying In airbnb’s And I’m starting to prefer that. Especially in cities. Beach vacations I prefer a TS villa.

 

[GregT]

So you’re saying that MVC is informing their owners of new programs coming and to buy more now but the Vistana sales reps aren’t? I wonder if there are legal implications if the sales guys know what’s coming but isn’t telling everyone? Is that like withholding information? If the OP is savvy and most knowledgeable owners as all MVC owners are, and he was told as he said that only MVC owners will be able to book into all resorts but all VSN members won’t be able to I’d wonder if that’s fraudulent on the new sales on the other side? Making them buy more after signing on the dotted line on a new contract now to be enrolled. It’s apparent that if they all know what’s coming and one side would be “screwed” and have to buy more I’d say that’s a slimy company and one I wouldn’t want to give anymore money too lol. Once again, makes no difference to me as I don’t intend on booking any MVC property, since I tend to go back to my old home resort and occasionally ski in beaver creek.

No that’s not what he said.

And it is also not being said that MVC owners can book whatever they want whenever they want.

 

[CPNY]

No that’s not what he said.

And it is also not being said that MVC owners can book whatever they want whenever they want.

I understand why folks in these other programs would not like it, but MVCI's ultimate responsibility is to its shareholders. I believe they will come up with a way to 'value' in the DC levels of ownership what these other people's ownerships in these other systems are worth and place them accordingly (from the bottom level through Chairman's or higher). I believe they will still be able to exchange within their own systems as they always have. However, to play in the DC pool, I expect MVCI will require them to 'buy-in' at some minimal level of points (and it may be a few thousand points). People in these other systems won't like having to 'pay to play'. However, as said before, MVCI bought their companies. As long as they can continue to do what they have always done, their ownership has not been lessened. To play in the DC system represents an enhancement to their ownership that MVCI can rightly (in a purely business sense) charge them to get. If it was the other way around, their companies could certainly have done the same thing to MVCI owners (as part of their responsibility to their own shareholders). JMHO, as I only 'heard' this.

But it kinda is what he eluded to “hearing” or read in a document. However meaning that DC members will be able to book whatever resort they want. My issue here is, if he saw a document that propelled him to sign, why no say what he saw. Tell the rest of us so we can make an informed decision. Maybe buying now would be a smart idea if this program is going to be unbeatable. Why let people sit around if prices will double. Sounds like he may actually work for MVC. Think of your fellow tuggers. Hell, if I saw a document and I bought more. I’d tell ya this is what I read.... step 1 step 2 and step 3 was on the list. So I took a gamble because this may happen. “Eluding to” is iffy.

You can’t say I saw something in writing, and that you can’t say it for fear of getting people in trouble, but you saw with your own eyes, and then say “in my opinion” things will happen based on what I “heard” after saying you read it.

It’s like knowing where to go get a a great car at a great price and when your friend needs a car and asks what kind of deal you got you just keep telling him about the great price you got, when he asks what dealership you don’t tell him because you don’t want to get the sales guy in trouble for giving you the discount.

 

[bogey21]

So, it’s being said that the facts are that MVC Points owners can book any resort they want whenever they want but all other owners will be forced to buy interests in the MVC points program to cross book.

Makes sense to me from Marriott Corporate's perspective...

George

 

[JIMinNC]

But it kinda is what he eluded to “hearing” or read in a document. However meaning that DC members will be able to book whatever resort they want. My issue here is, if he saw a document that propelled him to sign, why no say what he saw. Tell the rest of us so we can make an informed decision. Maybe buying now would be a smart idea if this program is going to be unbeatable. Why let people sit around if prices will double. Sounds like he may actually work for MVC. Think of your fellow tuggers. Hell, if I saw a document and I bought more. I’d tell ya this is what I read.... step 1 step 2 and step 3 was on the list. So I took a gamble because this may happen. “Eluding to” is iffy.

You can’t say I saw something in writing, and that you can’t say it for fear of getting people in trouble, but you saw with your own eyes, and then say “in my opinion” things will happen based on what I “heard” after saying you read it.

It’s like knowing where to go get a a great car at a great price and when your friend needs a car and asks what kind of deal you got you just keep telling him about the great price you got, when he asks what dealership you don’t tell him because you don’t want to get the sales guy in trouble for giving you the discount.

It's one thing to tell a friend something one-on-one, quite another to post info on a public message board for all the world to see. If I was ever told something at a presentation that was presented as inside info - even if I thought it was probably BS - I would be reluctant to post it on a public forum just in case it was the real deal. I would hate to be responsible for getting someone fired.

 

[CPNY]

Makes sense to me from Marriott Corporate's perspective...

George

LoL here is why it makes sense to you. If you own MVC you expect some level of “loyalty” but this day in age customer loyalty isn’t what It used to be. They give you just enough to make you feel like to have loyalty. In reality you see it quite often over the years. Look at all the points programs across all programs. Points get devalued. Airline miles aren’t what they used to be, hotel points etc. MVG owns it all now right? All customers in their network are now stakeholders, why would you allienate stakeholders? Everyone is a potential customer to buy more. I think you would see something a bit more fair that involved kicking in more money somehow someway.

 

[CPNY]

It's one thing to tell a friend something one-on-one, quite another to post info on a public message board for all the world to see. If I was ever told something at a presentation that was presented as inside info - even if I thought it was probably BS - I would be reluctant to post it on a public forum just in case it was the real deal. I would hate to be responsible for getting someone fired.

I know I’m new here but I missed the part of personal information being shared and now it can be traced back. I get what you’re saying. But the fact that he was shown a confidential document he wasn’t allowed to see is cause enough for termination of the sales rep. If not, why not show more people who ask? If they do show everyone who asks well then it will be harder to trace back to a single person or it’s not that confidential.

 

[GregT]

All,

Is anyone taking a sales presentation in the coming weeks? If so, could you inquire on potential changes/introduction of a points buy-back program?

Marriott has been posturing that it’s coming for years now, and if it’s truly coming, it would be a factor in both the purchase of new points and the resale market, as OP has alluded to.

This reminds me of the flurry of rumors before official announcement of other significant changes (implementation of Ritz DC, hybrid sales, ability to enroll post-2010 weeks) and a point buy-back program would be a logical addition for Marriott. Lord knows they’ve been talking about it long enough.

I will see what I can learn too but would appreciate if anyone is attending a sales meeting, and if this topic is addressed (officially or unofficially). Thanks!

Best,

Greg

 

[Ken555]

For sure it's prudent to take what is said in any sales presentation with a very large grain of salt but, from time-to-time in the past, TUGgers on this Marriott board have picked up hints of program changes from sales reps a few weeks or months ahead of the formal announcement. Sometimes these hints proved to be spot on, other times not so much. As a result, it's always interesting to read the info, but always to look at it in context of where it came from.

It's also important to understand the knowledge and experience level of the TUGger posting the information. Since you are a VSE owner, you may not be aware of who on the Marriott board are the more knowledgeable and experienced owners. The OP in this thread, kds4, is a long-time poster on this board and is an informed and knowledgeable owner. As I noted in post #99, there are a couple of situations where a developer points purchase from MVC can be price-competitive with resale MVC points, so just because someone "took the bait" doesn't mean they are a typical uninformed buyer. Based on my experience with the OP here on the Marriott board, I believe that kds4 is the type of owner who understands how the MVC system works, and who probably made an informed decision, based on more than just what they were told in the presentation.

Context is key, and I appreciate it. As I appreciated your earlier explanation of a possible, very expensive, method for acquiring points from Marriott direct in a similar price range as resale.

However, based on kds4’s incomplete posts and many others obvious concern that we are not receiving the full story, one should question why he even posted at all. In the end this was just a “trust me, don’t buy right now but I can’t explain why other than everything is going to get so much better” message. Sorry, I consider that to be a total waste of time.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[pchung6]

All,

Is anyone taking a sales presentation in the coming weeks? If so, could you inquire on potential changes/introduction of a points buy-back program?

I am going to Maui staying at Nanea next month. Because of this thread made me very angry last night, I will attend and will provide everyone a concrete story of my meeting, unlike the OP. It will be more of VSN meeting, not sure your question will be relevant, but I will ask.

 

[StevenTing]

All,

Is anyone taking a sales presentation in the coming weeks? If so, could you inquire on potential changes/introduction of a points buy-back program?

It hasn’t been scheduled yet but I plan on taking one when I head to Grande Ocean in a month.

 

[dioxide45]

So, just returned from an enjoyable trip (prefer to not say where) and what I would consider to be the most beneficial 'owner update' I have been to. Very interesting discussion about the ILG acquisition and what changes are coming (or not coming) as a result. We talked about some important dates to remember, such as 2015 and October, 2019 (as examples). Told to expect a couple of significant emails this fall about DC changes coming that many owners have been wanting (as a result of the ILG acquisition). I realize that some folks may take the position that "if their lips were moving, don't believe it". That has often been my perspective as well during past presentations. However, I didn't just hear it, as it would take more than that to get me to buy more points (which I did). Stay tuned. This is about to get really interesting for MVCI owners.

What I'm saying is that Marriott is adding benefits to the ownership of those who own/enrolled in the Marriott Destination Points program. Any comments I have posted related to the ILG acquisition (and the companies acquired in it) is only speculation based solely on what I heard in the meeting.

Wait a minute, the first quote here is from the first post in this thread. You certainly were implying that you saw something in writing as it pertains to the integrated product. Now the only thing you saw was regarding a buyback/resignation program? So any integration discussion on your part is pure speculation based on "their lips are moving" and nothing in writing?

While a resale program of DC points would be good for owners, I just don't see it really ever happening. Back in the weeks days, Marriott would not even resell weeks at a resort if it was still in active sales. What incentive would they have to sell your DC points over their own unless the margin was close to what they would be making on their own product, which is about 50-60%?

 

[dougp26364]

I am going to Maui staying at Nanea next month. Because of this thread made me very angry last night, I will attend and will provide everyone a concrete story of my meeting, unlike the OP. It will be more of VSN meeting, not sure your question will be relevant, but I will ask.

Angry? Why?

I think you’re taking this discussion a little to seriously. No one has lost any benefits. No one has lost or gained any access. Westin/SVN Owner’s will undoubtedly retain all the rights they were initially granted when they purchased. It’s very hard to change, remove or do an end around of those rights without creating more headache than it’s worth. About all that will happen is Westin/VSN owners will gain access to several new resorts/locations while retaining their original rights as owners.

Please stop letting unfounded speculation make you angry. Salesmen tell us what we want to hear. We buy what we believe we need.

I guess it’s ironic that a speculative thread on TUG has you looking forward to attending a SALES presentation to verify speculation that undoubtedly won’t have much basis in fact. Maybe the sales weasels are even more weasely than we thought.

 

[CPNY]

Angry? Why?

I think you’re taking this discussion a little to seriously. No one has lost any benefits. No one has lost or gained any access. Westin/SVN Owner’s will undoubtedly retain all the rights they were initially granted when they purchased. It’s very hard to change, remove or do an end around of those rights without creating more headache than it’s worth. About all that will happen is Westin/VSN owners will gain access to several new resorts/locations while retaining their original rights as owners.

Please stop letting unfounded speculation make you angry. Salesmen tell us what we want to hear. We buy what we believe we need.

I guess it’s ironic that a speculative thread on TUG has you looking forward to attending a SALES presentation to verify speculation that undoubtedly won’t have much basis in fact. Maybe the sales weasels are even more weasely than we thought.

Weasels is a polite word.

 

[dougp26364]

Weasels is a polite word.

Oh there not all bad. There’s the occasional sales person that enjoys a nice 90 minute conversation with you before allowing you to collect your bounty.

 

[CPNY]

Angry? Why?

I think you’re taking this discussion a little to seriously. No one has lost any benefits. No one has lost or gained any access. Westin/SVN Owner’s will undoubtedly retain all the rights they were initially granted when they purchased. It’s very hard to change, remove or do an end around of those rights without creating more headache than it’s worth. About all that will happen is Westin/VSN owners will gain access to several new resorts/locations while retaining their original rights as owners.

Please stop letting unfounded speculation make you angry. Salesmen tell us what we want to hear. We buy what we believe we need.

I guess it’s ironic that a speculative thread on TUG has you looking forward to attending a SALES presentation to verify speculation that undoubtedly won’t have much basis in fact. Maybe the sales weasels are even more weasely than we thought.

Just call Vistana over the phone. I did. Spoke to sales. They offered me 22K to buy back my mandatory week to out toward the purchase of a flex program. They assured me no one knows what’s coming and everything you read is speculation. However they told me a new program is coming an to get in now before the prices go up! They made it sound like it would be a joint program and they can’t say what though because they were on a recorded line but I should read between the lines. I said I would never buy based on maybes and what ifs. But they tried hard to get me to get In now..... so to say that flex owners buying today wouldn’t be enrolled in a joint program but MVC owners automatically will get that right is absurd. If they crap on VSN owners like that, I think you’ll have a lot of angry customers who would not want to do business with MVG. BUT it seems that looking back on historical trends, MVC treated their owners like crap anyway. Especially when it came to resale owners. I’ll never buy into their new program if they make me

 

[CPNY]

Oh there not all bad. There’s the occasional sales person that enjoys a nice 90 minute conversation with you before allowing you to collect your bounty.

I generally go and try to stay as long as I can. I talk them in circles then throw their sales pitches back in their face.

Me: “ I love harborside resort”
Sales rep “ you know harborside is one of the Crown Jewels in the program, and you’ll have more options to go there with the new flex program”

10 min later
Sales rep” so we will buy back your Vistana deed and put 22k toward your new purchase”
Me: “how much to take back my harborside deed instead?”
Sales rep: “yeah, that will never happen, we aren’t touching those”
Me: “but why not? I thought it was the crown jewel?!?” “Why wouldn’t you want inventory to the crown jewel to put into your new joint program pool. I mean, it was the end all be all as of 10 min ago”

So on and so forth lol.