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I don’t understand this?
II only introduced unit size upgrade fees (for MVC to MVC exchanges anyway) a few years ago, long after the inception of DC.
“But II has since the DC inception instituted up-sizing fees on top of exchange fees so the DC system might be a wash for some of those types of exchanges.”
“This was annoying when it started, but now I simply consider it part of the cost. I also don't always upgrade.”
I was referring to the II charge for obtaining a larger unit than the week deposited. I just did this a few minutes ago... I was able to exchange my SDO 1-bed into a Hawaii 2-bed for 2020 (see the sighting board for details). I was assessed a $59 charge for reserving a 2-bed. Until a few years ago, II did not charge extra for such exchanges.
This is a great example of how and why II continues to provide value.
Well, it sounds like the value to you is not dealing with the trading game. You don't like it, like Sue. This helps us since you are both advocates for the points program, as you had poor experiences with II trading and find value in not spending time trying to make the program work for you. I get it. I appreciate it. I'm glad you found a solution that works for you.
Exactly. I hate playing the trading game. I just want to book.
Plus, we value view, so that’s another way points work so much better for us. We can lock in a view. Since you said view is not that important to you, I can see that trading will work better for you.
Even though points often result in a per night cost that is higher than II trading, it still beats renting in most cases. But again there, I’m not comparing against rentals from other owners since we don’t care for that either. No flexibility and generally have to pay upfront. I have to pay MF up front too, but with points, outside of 60 days I can cancel/rebook for free. Owner rentals I’m locked in.
For us, all of those things are more important measures of value than just the lowest cost.
I was referring to the II charge for obtaining a larger unit than the week deposited. I just did this a few minutes ago... I was able to exchange my SDO 1-bed into a Hawaii 2-bed for 2020 (see the sighting board for details). I was assessed a $59 charge for reserving a 2-bed. Until a few years ago, II did not charge extra for such exchanges.
This is a great example of how and why II continues to provide value.
Yes, perhaps I misunderstood - my comment was just that II did not charge for these until a few years ago, which is why I was surprised to read that
“II since the DC inception instituted up-sizing fees” which I read as meaning these started in 2010?
Exactly. I hate playing the trading game. I just want to book.
Plus, we value view, so that’s another way points work so much better for us. We can lock in a view. Since you said view is not that important to you, I can see that trading will work better for you.
Even though points often result in a per night cost that is higher than II trading, it still beats renting in most cases. But again there, I’m not comparing against rentals from other owners since we don’t care for that either. No flexibility and generally have to pay upfront. I have to pay MF up front too, but with points, outside of 60 days I can cancel/rebook for free. Owner rentals I’m locked in.
For us, all of those things are more important measures of value than just the lowest cost.
This is very helpful for us to know, since it obviously influences your perspective on the DC program vs II trading. I do both StarOptions internal network exchange and II trading, so I experience the benefits as well as the challenges. I've had very good value with my WKV week in the network, and also excellent results with my various non-StarOptions weeks (I used to have two SVR 2-bed non-LO weeks, but now have just SDO 2-bed LOs) including another great trade just this morning. If my 2020 calendar wasn't already fairly full I'd grab a couple more Hawaii weeks in II...plenty of time to book flights, etc.
My goals when buying timeshares were very clear. I wanted to guarantee a reasonable (ie. low) cost per night travel experience in order to increase the number of nights traveling per year with the same budget I would otherwise spend for less time.
I was referring to the II charge for obtaining a larger unit than the week deposited. I just did this a few minutes ago... I was able to exchange my SDO 1-bed into a Hawaii 2-bed for 2020 (see the sighting board for details). I was assessed a $59 charge for reserving a 2-bed. Until a few years ago, II did not charge extra for such exchanges.
This is a great example of how and why II continues to provide value.
I just grabbed another 2 br Westin Nanea week using SBP 1 bed for 2020. This will make 3 weeks Hawaii vacation next year. Now, I need to adjust my OGS from my Branson 1 bed to 2021 and hope it can come through for Ko Olina.
I really love my Vistana SBP and Marriott WR weeks.
Yes, perhaps I misunderstood - my comment was just that II did not charge for these until a few years ago, which is why I was surprised to read that
“II since the DC inception instituted up-sizing fees” which I read as meaning these started in 2010?
No, I meant it as it's something that was introduced after the DC, meaning that while it wasn't something that would have been considered by those of us who were evaluating the DC at the DC introduction, it is now.
I appreciate the long post you wrote, Ken. Obviously, you've put some thought into trying to understand what's being said here about how the DC works.
It's never been my aim - or the aim of most people on the Marriott forum - to tell anybody that the DC works for everyone. It obviously doesn't. I'm glad this thread helped you to decide that if it is offered to you, it doesn't appear to marry well with your ownership and how you use it. That's all that counts.
This is very helpful for us to know, since it obviously influences your perspective on the DC program vs II trading. I do both StarOptions internal network exchange and II trading, so I experience the benefits as well as the challenges. I've had very good value with my WKV week in the network, and also excellent results with my various non-StarOptions weeks (I used to have two SVR 2-bed non-LO weeks, but now have just SDO 2-bed LOs) including another great trade just this morning. If my 2020 calendar wasn't already fairly full I'd grab a couple more Hawaii weeks in II...plenty of time to book flights, etc.
My goals when buying timeshares were very clear. I wanted to guarantee a reasonable (ie. low) cost per night travel experience in order to increase the number of nights traveling per year with the same budget I would otherwise spend for less time.
I have multiple mandatory weeks plus I have voluntary weeks that I trade with II. I am cost conscious, and rarely but will pay extra with SOs if I have the points to do so.
I just picked up 3 2BR Nanea weeks for an extended family vacation. Cost per week with mf + trade + upgrade fees are below $1k each for an early August stay that will work with my school calendar. If I have a view of the parking lot, it's ok with me at that price. The fact that these Hawaii weeks that were bulk banked today by Vistana were under preference is a smart move IMHO - it keeps resale and demand up for Vistana properties.
Full disclosure: I also own several Marriott weeks resale and do not have access to DC. I have no desire to do so at the price they are asking to get resale weeks in. For me, I have flexibility with Vistana and Hyatt and that works fine for me.
This is why I love the SVN program. I suspect it will change over time, but I hope it doesnt.
Great. That's another good benefit from DC. It would be illegal to rent it out in Vistana and even you do it illegally, it will cost $59 to add third party guest's name.
No, I meant it as it's something that was introduced after the DC, meaning that while it wasn't something that would have been considered by those of us who were evaluating the DC at the DC introduction, it is now.
This is very helpful for us to know, since it obviously influences your perspective on the DC program vs II trading. I do both StarOptions internal network exchange and II trading, so I experience the benefits as well as the challenges. I've had very good value with my WKV week in the network, and also excellent results with my various non-StarOptions weeks (I used to have two SVR 2-bed non-LO weeks, but now have just SDO 2-bed LOs) including another great trade just this morning. If my 2020 calendar wasn't already fairly full I'd grab a couple more Hawaii weeks in II...plenty of time to book flights, etc.
My goals when buying timeshares were very clear. I wanted to guarantee a reasonable (ie. low) cost per night travel experience in order to increase the number of nights traveling per year with the same budget I would otherwise spend for less time.
The good thing is that when we enrolled our weeks in DC the single annual fee wipes out all the a-la-carte II fees. No more annual fee, no more exchange fees. And with Marriott, no more lock off fees. So for a single lock off owner, that $205 annual DC fee easily pays for itself even if you plan to continue to exchange weeks in II. If they extend enrollment to Vistana weeks, it will be something for voluntary owners to consider as it could still save them a lot of money even with no intention to ever play in points.
The good thing is that when we enrolled our weeks in DC the single annual fee wipes out all the a-la-carte II fees. No more annual fee, no more exchange fees. And with Marriott, no more lock off fees. So for a single lock off owner, that $205 annual DC fee easily pays for itself even if you plan to continue to exchange weeks in II. If they extend enrollment to Vistana weeks, it will be something for voluntary owners to consider as it could still save them a lot of money even with no intention to ever play in points.
I understand, and is why I wrote it all depends on the cost to enroll, all things considered. At that point it’s a simple calc to determine how many years of typical II costs to realize the ROI, and hopefully a benefit.
So with my deeded harborside week, if I book a week that I can’t get available until the 8 month mark because of the way the deeded fixed/float week works with availability, the reservation is seen as a Vistana signature experiences reservation not a home resort reservation. Are you saying I’m not allowed to rent that reservation?
So with my deeded harborside week, if I book a week that I can’t get available until the 8 month mark because of the way the deeded fixed/float week works with availability, the reservation is seen as a Vistana signature experiences reservation not a home resort reservation. Are you saying I’m not allowed to rent that reservation?
It’s simply depends on the situation. If they are truly family members then it’s appropriate but it simply depends on the situation. If they’re truly family members then that’s appropriate if not then it’s not appropriate. It’s a reflection on the individual not the salesman. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
You can rent out as many reservations as you have ownerships for. So in this case, if you do not elect your home reservation, you can rent out 1 SO reservation for every interval you own at that resort (and for which you do not elect to rent out a home reservation)
I dont have anything to cite, so you will have to look it up yourself.
you may be right. When you change the guest name of a SO reservation, the terms and conditions are:
"Except for Vacation Periods reserved at the Home Resort, Network Members are prohibited from renting to a third-party any accommodation reserved through the Network’s exchange program, including accommodations of the External Exchange Program."
It appears that when renting a week at a resort you own, same season or not, you are ok.
you may be right. When you change the guest name of a SO reservation, the terms and conditions are:
"Except for Vacation Periods reserved at the Home Resort, Network Members are prohibited from renting to a third-party any accommodation reserved through the Network’s exchange program, including accommodations of the External Exchange Program."
It appears that when renting a week at a resort you own, same season or not, you are ok.
Define renting though. Having friends go when I don’t use my weeks, I assume that’s ok? Or really they don’t care if you rent which is why they added the 59 dollar fee to capitalize on rentals
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