If Points are Points...

[DaveNV]

How do I learn which Points-based system is best for us? I've been a Weeks person from the beginning, since the last time I checked, seven nights was still seven nights. Once you own a week, they can't do much to mess with that other than raise the maintenance fees. It's worked well for us, and I'm not complaining. However...

As I move ahead in my busy life, scheduling a full week at a time isn't always a practical option. Getting away for weekends or three/four days is often easier to do. The problem is, how do I learn and decide which Points system works best for us?

I live in Washington state, where WorldMark has a strong presence. But when reviewing the WorlMark points pages, it seems the resorts in Hawaii I might want to book are part of Club Wyndham, so I presume WM points don't apply. And then there's RCI's points, and all the various hotel systems to consider. I can't afford, and don't want to try to afford, a mega-expensive points contract. They all seem to be different kinds of numbers, and it's all really confusing.

How do I make sense of it all? Then, how do I decide how many points are enough to own? (Logically, if I figure how many points it takes to stay in the unit size I want, at the resort I want, in the season I want, then that's the starting point of how much to buy. But the equally-nice resort next door may have a totally different points system to work with.)

And at the end of the day, is it just easier over all to rent from someone who makes a business of renting out units?

Decisions, decisions. Can someone please help me sort all this out?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[VacationForever]

I do strongly suggest Worldmark being from where you are. Worldmark is a very owner and resale friendly system. Not sure which Hawaii island you are looking at but you may absolutely book resorts on Hawaiian islands using Worldmark points.

Maybe you can try to answer the newbie questionaire, even though you are not a newbie?

I had owned weeks systems - Vistana (formerly known as Starwood) and Marriott and for point systems - Vistana (internal booking system), Worldmark and now Marriott. It was painful for us to sell our Worldmark contract as it is still my absolute favorite point system but since we are retired and we live in a lovely home in a fabulous area and with 2 cats, we realized that we no longer enjoy booking a timeshare stay just because we have to use up the weeks/points. Marriott is an expensive system but it does offer us the varied options as to how we travel, although not always the most cost effective. We are on the fence as to whether to exit the Vistana system but the ability to convert to hotel points every other year has been useful to us and we only need to figure out how/where to use the points in the other year.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Whoops. Pressed enter when it didn't post, then again and again.

 

[rickandcindy23]

RCI trading works well with WorldMark points. I would do that, as VacationForever already advised.

RCI Points are great. I like the availability I see with RCI Points over weeks. That might be why I have built so many TPU's in weeks. Nothing to book.

But honestly, trading through II has been my favorite for the last five years. I believe you can still choose II has your exchange company with WorldMark, even resale.

There are many nice WorldMark points packages on ebay. I suggest getting at least 20K points, which you should be able to get cheaply enough. We own 46K, and I am looking to add 4K for the extra HK credit. There are HK fees with WorldMark, so those shorter stays have a little more cost in HK. There are no transaction fees, which I have to pay to Shell.

 

[DaveNV]

Thanks to you both for the info. I've been told WorldMark is a good one for where I live, so that is the one system I've been looking more closely at. So WorldMark credits can be used in RCI, too? How does that work? WM credits are different numbers than what I've seen of Wyndham points. I also know Wyndham owns everything, but I wasn't aware that WM points can be used in RCI. I'm familiar with the whole TPU side of RCI, but how do WM points translate? Do you just pick and choose, and spend your points on what you see on their website?

These housekeeping credits are a thing, aren't they? I've been advised to make sure anything I'm looking at comes with enough HK credits, and a January anniversary date, so they kick in at the right time? How many HK credits are enough?

Still a million questions...

Dave

 

[VacationForever]

Thanks to you both for the info. I've been told WorldMark is a good one for where I live, so that is the one system I've been looking more closely at. So WorldMark credits can be used in RCI, too? How does that work? WM credits are different numbers than what I've seen of Wyndham points. I also know Wyndham owns everything, but I wasn't aware that WM points can be used in RCI. I'm familiar with the whole TPU side of RCI, but how do WM points translate? Do you just pick and choose, and spend your points on what you see on their website?

These housekeeping credits are a thing, aren't they? I've been advised to make sure anything I'm looking at comes with enough HK credits, and a January anniversary date, so they kick in at the right time? How many HK credits are enough?

Still a million questions...

Dave

I have never done it....

Worldmark can be traded in both RCI (week) and II - you will have to decide which one and pay for the membership. Within Flexchange, it only requires 4000 WM points. Outside of Flexchange, it is something like 10K for a 2BR, 9K for 1BR, 8K for studio for high/red season, and lower requirements for lower TDI. I do not have the exact number, but you get the idea.

WM contracts come with 1 HK for every 10K account.

 

[ronparise]

The tried and true advice here son tug is, as you know, but where you want to vacation. If it’s the Wyndham resorts in Hawaii that would point to a Wyndham points ownership.
I don’t think i world buy Wyndham or Worldmark to trade , although worldmark is, I’m told a good trader.



I wouldn’t count on renting from a Wyndham owner either.at least not cheaply We can no longer count on the deep discounts we used to get so chances are you will pay more than you used to

The Wyndham hawaii resorts are fairly expensive in terms of points so you would be well advised to buy a low mf contract like Bali Hai, National Harbor or Panama City Beach. Buy a typical $6/1000 point contract and you will be spending $1800+ for a week vs about $1200 if you own one of the contracts I mentioned

 

[Free2Roam]

I prefer RCI points for short stays.

Years ago I purchased a small contract to use for short stays in areas where there were no Wyndham resorts. In addition to RCI and Wyndham points, I own a few summer beach weeks on the east coast. The last few years I've found myself renting out most of the fixed weeks and booking shorter stays using my RCI Points. I've even had RCI points transferred from other owners (via TUG Marketplace) when I needed more. If I had do do it all over again, I would opt for RCI points instead of the fixed weeks.

 

[rhonda]

Thanks to you both for the info. I've been told WorldMark is a good one for where I live, so that is the one system I've been looking more closely at. So WorldMark credits can be used in RCI, too? How does that work? WM credits are different numbers than what I've seen of Wyndham points. I also know Wyndham owns everything, but I wasn't aware that WM points can be used in RCI. I'm familiar with the whole TPU side of RCI, but how do WM points translate? Do you just pick and choose, and spend your points on what you see on their website?

These housekeeping credits are a thing, aren't they? I've been advised to make sure anything I'm looking at comes with enough HK credits, and a January anniversary date, so they kick in at the right time? How many HK credits are enough?

Still a million questions...

Dave

re: Worldmark and RCI Weeks exchanges
Worldmark trades through both RCI Weeks and II using a fixed exchange grid located > here. RCI Points is not offered to resale WM accounts. The exchange grid is the same for both exchange groups except for the Instant Exchange window; RCI Weeks Instant Exchange is inside 45-days; II is 59-days. Neither exchange company is included or free; membership is your choice and your responsibility.

Both RCI Weeks and II allow the following methods for exchanging against WM:

• Confirm First. This method does not require a deposit to RCI/II. You are permitted to search the inventory and/or place an ongoing search against "good faith" of sufficient WM credits should you book an exchange. All exchanges will be fulfilled using the exchange grid linked earlier. This is a strong trade option.
• Deposit First. This method is often used to extend expiring credits or to bargain hunt. In this method, you ask WM to create a fixed week deposit for some fixed number of credits. If you ask for a 4000 Credit deposit you will generally be assigned a random blue studio from the system ... but may get a blue 1BR unit. An 8000 Credit deposit could yield either a red studio deposit or a white 2BR. The deposited week then trades in RCI Weeks using TPU values rather than the exchange grid; similar for II but w/out a published trade power grid. A bit of a gamble ...

re: WM Hawaii
Worldmark has the following resorts inside its "native network" ... all using standard Worldmark credits and reservation guidelines.

• Worldmark Kona, Big Island
• Worldmark Kapaa Shore, Kauai
• Worldmark Valley Isle, Maui
• Worldmark Kihei, Maui

re: Anniversary Month
January? Meh, your choice. The anniversary month simply marks the month for receiving new points each year; year after year. Of course, it also defines when existing credits might expire (2 years after issue ... sorta). Use it to measure if an account is fully loaded, about to get new credits, has sufficient lead time to close and book reservations against the current balance of credits, etc. Ours is Oct and that causes us absolutely no issues when planning, booking, borrowing, exchanging, etc. (Unlike DVC where I feel the specific month of one's "Use Year" is a highly important element.) The Anniversary Month becomes slightly more important when purchasing add-on resale accounts with the intent to merge accounts. Then you might consider what will happen to credits when two different Anniversary periods are merged together; one account will be named the surviving account; the the losing account balance will be prorated to match the surviving account.

re: Housekeeping Credits
WM accounts receive a set number of Housekeeping Tokens (shorthand 'HKT') based on number of annual credits in the account.

• 1 HKT for all accounts under 20,000 annual credits
• 2 HKT for 20k
• 3 HKT for 30k, etc. (1 HKT for each whole increment of 10k annual credits)

Every reservation booked on WM credits will be charged a HKT. When you run out of HKT, you'll be charged a Housekeeping fee based on the unit size. If you are down to only 1 HKT and still need to book both a 4BR Presidential unit and a Studio ... book the 4BR first (consuming the HKT) and then the Studio (paying the cleaning fee for a studio).

Your WM account receives the designated number of HKTs each year on your anniversary month, along with your fresh credits. HKTs live for 2 years and can be borrowed from a future year. HKTs cannot be transferred across owner accounts.

Reservations booked on cash programs (Bonus Time, Monday Madness, Inventory Specials, FAX, etc.) do NOT require a Housekeeping Token. The cleaning is built into the cash rate.

Hope this helps ...

 

[Glynda]

For us on the East Coast, Bluegreen points work well for short stays. In addition to points, we also use their Bonus Time feature a lot. That's a minimum of two nights available forty-five or less days out that can be booked for $69 a night for a Studio and up according to size. They don't have much of a presence in the West though and you have to buy "qualified points" (from BG or Pinnacle) in order to have Bonus Time at all resorts. If you buy resale, you only get Bonus Time at the resort where you are "deeded".

 

[geist1223]

Thing to remember about acquiring WM Points in the secondary market is that they can be used for all 80 - 90 WM Resorts, trades through RCI, II etc but they can not be used for Wyndham Pass (which is of questionable value) or to Book directly into WMSP.

 

[DaveNV]

Thanks, everyone. Rhonda, you rock! I'll simmer on all of this for awhile, and see what questions remain. Now that I have the vocabulary, I can make also better sense of some of the ads I've seen.

Thanks again!

Dave

 

[dsmrp]

There's also a Worldmark sub-forum on Tug:
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?forums/worldmark-the-club.60/

 

[sue1947]

Buy into the system that has the resorts you want. Each system is different and the points do not compare to any other system. Figure out who has the resorts and quality you want and then figure out that system.
Wyndham and Worldmark are 2 completely different systems. If you want Wyndham resorts, then buy into Wyndham. WM resorts are middle class resorts with formica instead of granite and not much in the way of resort amenities or activities. They are inexpensive and provide a comfortable place to stay while exploring the area.

Booking weekend only reservations means you will be competing with all the others out there who are limited to weekends; you need to plan well ahead and be lucky, especially with the NW resorts. You likely won't get a red season weekend at the beach, for instance. 7 day or longer reservations can book at 13 months while shorter stays can't be booked until 10 months which means all the weekends are gone by then; actually gone within a week of 13 months. When I bought in 15+ years ago, I planned on weekend hiking trips to the Olympics or Leavenworth and I wasn't able to book them then either. Off season and mid-week can be easier, but Depoe Bay in early Nov still books up quickly at 13 months out. WM can be a great system, but it depends on your needs.

WM is a great trader in both RCI and II. The number of points needed is based on season and size, NOT TDI.
With RCI, you pay full price; there is no option for a discount or trading up. With II, you can gamble and get a deposit (randomly picked by WM Exchange dept) and hope to trade up in quality and season.
The best source for WM info is wmowners.com/forum, especially trading.

Sue

 

[DaveNV]

More good info. Thanks! My research continues.

Dave

 

[PigsDad]

Don't forget to check into HGVC as well. Unlike most of the other timeshare systems, they treat their resale buyers the same as retail buyers when it comes to using the system. MFs are reasonable for the quality of resorts, point use is very flexible, and trades into RCI are "discounted" (you get a 2BR RCI for for the same points of a 1BR HGVC, for example).

Kurt

 

[moonstone]

My pet peeve with our RCI Points is that we pay the same exchange fee amount whether we are booking 3, 7 or 10 nights! That is why I have been trying to book 10 night stays as much as possible.

~Diane

 

[vacationhopeful]

Shell Resorts ... many west coast resorts. Is a points system. And yes, Wyndham did acquire them, But the resorts have no fixed checkin days, so costs for short bookings. Can exchange thru either RCI or II (or used to for II). You would probably want to buy WEST CLUB points for early booking options but there is also a Hawaii Club (MFs might be more expensive).

There were some changes to 'degrade' resale points but I got in BEFORE that happen .. so not up to date on that issue. Can bank points and can borrow points. Some people say the resorts are more basic ... I have found them to be nice & clean .. great staff.

Resorts seem to be city or golf course types of places ... Have stayed at the San Diego resort, the Pheniox resort.

 

[HudsHut]

In RED season, an RCI exchange will cost you
3br 12,000 WM credits
2br 10,000 WM credits
1br 9,000 WM credits
Studio 8,000 WM credits
plus $239 exchange fee plus HK token, or the equivalent fee, based on unit size.

At 45 days before check-in, any size unit is 4,000 WM credits.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Like Linda said, Shell is good, but it's getting more and more expensive to use our Shell points, and therein lies the problem with Shell. We like Peacock Suites, and there are times when we can stay there for $25-$40 per night in MF's, weekdays only, off-season, when we like to go to Disneyland. But it seems we always have to pay housekeeping fees, which are now $60 for a one bedroom in the West Club.

We supposedly get six HK fees included with our ownership, but I am always charged. I assume we get six free, but our guests must reap the benefit of those free HK. I always disclose in my contract that there are fees.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Reservations booked on cash programs (Bonus Time, Monday Madness, Inventory Specials, FAX, etc.) do NOT require a Housekeeping Token. The cleaning is built into the cash rate.

Hope this helps ...

This bit of information is something I didn't know. I was offered FAX time deals in the past and didn't take them. I assumed I would be charged HK on top of the fees. Thank you for that clarification.

 

[JohnPaul]

I'm a big points person and own in a bunch of systems.

Worldmark is great. I don't feel I have problems booking but I'm a planner and I don't go to Hawaii so maybe that's why. WM is also good for last minute because their cancelation policy is unique. The closer to arrival you book the less lead time you need to cancel. People that book within 10 days of arrival can cancel as close as 2 days before arrival. However, you have to keep checking regularly because anything good will go quickly.

We also own Vacation Internationale which is also NW based. You can book as little as one day to as many days as you have points at 12 months out. Any day of the week and any length of stay. There are no housekeeping fees but every reservation (even if you cancel later) has a $20 booking fee. VI is a little unique as many of the resort units have dates at which they will potentially leave the system. The Maui resorts go in something like 2021. If Hawaii is your big draw then review that part carefully. The base MF has stayed constant at $5.85 per point for something like 7 years. They add a dime or so most years to the renovation reserves so total MF is now $7.75. You can buy very cheap on the resale market. Check www.viresorts.com to view the resorts.

We also own Shell Vacations (West Club). We use that mostly for San Francisco, Napa and San Diego. MF are on the high side but so are costs in those areas. However, the closest resorts to Seattle are at Whistler and Welches, OR (near Mt Hood). Not sure it's ideal for weekend get aways. At 307 days out, minimum stay drops from 7 nights to 2. We also make use of the dash away deals (bonus time). We stay in a hotel room at Inn at the Opera on a Monday to Wednesday for as little as $30 per night plus a $17.50 on line reservation fee. At that property you even get a nice continental breakfast.

We also own HGVC but only use that for New York City. They are heavily concentrated in Las Vegas, Hawaii and Florida/South Carolina.

Enjoy your research. I'm sure you'll make a good choice. As you've been told points are like foreign currencies in that what you get for your points varies greatly. We own 451 VI points which is a lot. I'm not an expert, but I'd guess that's more than a million Wyndham points.

 

[DeniseM]

Wyndham points would allow you to make reservations at Kauai Beach Villas - even ocean front.

 

[JohnPaul]

I prefer RCI points for short stays.

I'm curious about why you feel this way. My take has been that RCI points are not good for short stays because by the time you pay the exchange fee (granted it's reduced for shorter stays) and a possible housekeeping fee from the resort the stay gets costly.

I feel like I get a better deal amortizing my exchange fee over a longer stay.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[easyrider]

We have Worldmark and live in WA so this makes it very easy to use Worldmark resorts bonus time for short stays. We currently use two contracts. We are set up with RCI and II but rarely use the WM to do regular trades. We do the 45 day out and 60 day out trades for 4000 points + exchange fee.

Regarding Hawaii, a decent point system that owns older right on top of the water buildings is Vacation Internationale. We bought a 190 point package with a 8 year rtu to use mostly in Hawaii. These units are so close to the water that in some units we have watched turtles, fish, dolphin and waves. You can sleep on the deck under the stars with waves crashing 30 ft away. VI also has a pretty large footprint in the North West. My wife goes to Leavenworth every year for holiday events. VI has a bonus time feature.

Bill

 

[Free2Roam]

Unless I'm traveling a very long distance, or to a new destination, I prefer shorter stays of 4-5 days... sometimes just a 3 day weekend. I live in an area where there are lots of places I can get to easily for a short getaway. I travel a full week (or longer) at least twice a year and do a short getaway just about every month.

My first timeshare purchase was with Wyndham (when they were Fairfield Resorts.) We chose that system because of the flexibility in number of days and unit size. Using RCI Points gives me more (non-hotel) options at a reasonable cost.

The RCI Weeks exchange fee is currently $239 (just over $34/night.) The fee for a 4 night stay with RCI Points is $129...5 nights is $169. The per night fee is slightly lower for RCI Points so I'm not losing anything there. Also I've found that not all resorts charge a housekeeping fee. Most I've gone to don't, although I do understand why they would want to do so.

I also find it easier to get the reservations I want in RCI Points. Points reservations can only be booked 10 months in advance unless it's for your home week, home resort or home group. Just after midnight is my prime time for grabbing those RCI Points reservations in hard to get areas.

So I would say it depends on your travel style, where you live, where you want to travel, etc.