How can Wyndham owners effectively complain?

[richardm]

Anyone have ideas on how Club Wyndham owners can effectively register complaints? Here are three topics for discussion:

1. File complaints with the Better Business Bureau?
2. File complaints with the Florida Attorney Generals office?
3. Register and hope to speak at the annual meeting?

1) I wonder if enough complaints and negative reviews were registered on the BBB if that could have an impact. A complaint to the BBB does normally trigger an official "letter" and "inquiry". Plus, if deemed a valid complaint or if the business doesn't respond- the complaint is registered for the public to see. Would there be a downside to filing a complaint?

https://www.bbb.org/central-florida...ham-vacation-ownership-in-orlando-fl-20000283

2) Would enough complaints to the Florida AG put pressure on Wyndham to right the ship? The actions taken against Diamond by the Arizona Attorney Generals office show that when motivated- an Attorney General can hit back really, really hard. Do you think that the Florida AG would take these complaints seriously?

http://myfloridalegal.com/contact.nsf/contact?Open&Section=Citizen_Services

3) There was a thread discussing this, but it didn't look to be very easy. If members can't attend or be heard at the meeting, would enough be able to organize a protest off property? Or perhaps multiple protests at multiple resort locations? The local news in Orlando broadcast a few of these rallys in the past that were directed at another timeshare developer. Nothing like a few family's holding signs to get a developers attention.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2017-owners-meeting-august-2nd-of-2017.251269/

Any other thoughts or ideas? Wyndham is a public company so negative press is something they would naturally prefer to avoid. They've always done a good job of containing the exposure from various lawsuits and complaints, but it looks like the anger from some owners over these last changes is starting to get out. I have to wonder if Wyndham's new CEO was really aware of the potential problems when he took the job in April? All these changes were planned long before he arrived. He just gets to carry the burden of all the damage control..

 

[breezez]

1). The AG would be best....

2.) Bring something up next quarter on their quarterly conference call when line opened for questions. If their stock price starts moving the wrong way they will listen and start singing to a new tune. Just look at United Airlines CEO

3) Contact your local news agencies that do consumer protection stories. The more press that gets out there about there disastrous new site roll over the more they will begin to listen.

4) I'm not much into social media but create a hashtag and see if it can go viral. News outlets track what is trending.

 

[CandyLancaster]

I agree with Richard. We need to do something. The least Wyndham could have done was either grandfathered. us in or given us notice of these changes (1 year) to prepare and get our own finances in order. Who is willing to get the ball rolling?

 

[CO skier]

3) Contact your local news agencies that do consumer protection stories. The more press that gets out there about there disastrous new site roll over the more they will begin to listen.

There are consumer protection YouTube videos about Wyndham, and have been for years.

When someone hears the word "timeshare" their eyes either glaze over or start rolling. "Everyone" knows timeshares are a scam. An inept timeshare reservation system introduction will not make the 5 o'clock news.

Patience. If there is anything to this, it will affect summer upgrade sales to existing owners. That will affect 3rd quarter WYN earnings and get the attention (too late for Club Wyndham) of management, but it might help Shell and WorldMark owners by severely delaying the introduction of V'ger into those systems.

All the BBB complaints and protests will not have any effect. I think TUG presents a disproportionate view of the changes, because it is disproportionately populated by VIP owners using Club Wyndham as a rental business. This is not the average owner. The average owners are the ones upgrading to VIP. TUG VIPs are already there and know not to enter into a retail purchase. As difficult as the Voyager introduction has been, I do not think it will create a blip on 3rd quarter earnings, jmo.

(The average TUG member is not "Everyone" and knows how a properly fitting timeshare [including Club Wyndham] can add immensely to their vacation enjoyment. That, at least, is my experience as an average timeshare owner who uses timeshares for personal vacations.)

 

[Bigrob]

Yeah on this point I agree with Co Skier. A less-than-perfect new owner website rollout isn't going to grab headlines. More likely to grab attention is the recent lawsuits where Wyndham is in essence being accused of predatory marketing and preying on the elderly. You need a sympathetic "victim" and egregious actions by the "villain" to get attention.

I'm not sure how much legal merit the cases actually have (the stories are sad and altogether too familiar, but in essence they are relying on the court ruling that oral representations should be legally binding and perhaps even have precedence over the "long" or "referenced" contracts received by Plaintiff). That being said, I do believe the Tenn. cases have some similarity to the recent Wisconsin settlement and may reach a similar conclusion.

 

[BellaWyn]

I think TUG presents a disproportionate view of the changes, because it is disproportionately populated by VIP owners using Club Wyndham as a rental business.

Disagree.

There are a lot of TUG lurkers and posters that are NOT VIP or in the rental business. The TUG discussions of the changes mirror much of what is happening in other social media groups, also not soley populated with VIP or people in the rental business.

 

[CO skier]

soley populated with VIP

You exaggerate.

I did not write, "solely populated by VIPs". I wrote, "disproportionately populated by VIPs". I am sure that Facebook is the same, because VIPs who gamed the system with cancel/rebook and cancel/rebook/upgrade are most affected by the new Guidelines and they display their displeasure on TUG and Facebook.

Meanwhile, owners who had no access to the cancel/rebook/upgrade scam feel no effects from the automatic upgrades, because the average owner is not VIP and is not affected by the auto-upgrade benefit.

 

[MAKEITRIGHT]

VIPs gamed the system??? Cancel/Rebook/upgrade scam? If you go to buy a car and the model comes in 5 different trim levels. A) Entry Level Grade $25,000 B) Luxury Edition $50,000 C) Sport $75,000 D) Executive Luxury Edition $100,000 E) Executive Sport Edition $175,000. The sale person convinced to go with The Executive Sport Edition because of all the benefits you would have. And it's not just one sale person, it is the whole dealership. You hesitated, but you finally gave in and you are all excited. You signed your life a away. You can't even believe that you spend that much money. But then you thought of all the things they promised you it would be and you say to yourself "Yes! This is for me and my family." But then, after a few months of driving the Executive Sport Edition, they drove car A to you and said, "Sorry! We didn't mean what we said. You can't have car E, but you still get a great car in car A". Who's playing game??? Who got scammed?

 

[CO skier]

Cancel/Rebook/upgrade scam?

Yes, it has taken a few years, but that is how it is generally recognized.

Most importantly, Wyndham finally recognized that cancel/rebook and cancel/rebook/upgrade is a scam.

 

[MAKEITRIGHT]

I think the VIPs is the ones that got scammed. Wyndham told us we can cancel/rebook/upgrade. They taught us this in every "updates" over and over again. This is how they convinced VIPs to spent hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[CO skier]

Wyndham told us we can cancel/rebook/upgrade.

You can still cancel a reservation.

You can still book a reservation.

You can still upgrade a reservation, if you are VIP. And now the upgrade is automatic, so you do not have to spend hours searching. Bonus!

What have you lost?

 

[MAKEITRIGHT]

You said VIPs gamed the system and by using exactly what we were taught to do, we scammed this system. This is not right. The changes are not what was told to us that we can do. Like I said above, We bought the E car but now Wyndham said, "No, you can only get the A car even though you paid for the E car." VIPs are the ones that got scammed.

 

[CO skier]

You said VIPs gamed the system and by using exactly what we were taught to do, we scammed this system. This is not right. The changes are not what was told to us that we can do. Like I said above, We bought the E car but now Wyndham said, "No, you can only get the A car even though you paid for the E car." VIPs are the ones that got scammed.

Well, OK -- suit yourself.

 

[kukenan]

There are consumer protection YouTube videos about Wyndham, and have been for years.

When someone hears the word "timeshare" their eyes either glaze over or start rolling. "Everyone" knows timeshares are a scam. An inept timeshare reservation system introduction will not make the 5 o'clock news.

Patience. If there is anything to this, it will affect summer upgrade sales to existing owners. That will affect 3rd quarter WYN earnings and get the attention (too late for Club Wyndham) of management, but it might help Shell and WorldMark owners by severely delaying the introduction of V'ger into those systems.

All the BBB complaints and protests will not have any effect. I think TUG presents a disproportionate view of the changes, because it is disproportionately populated by VIP owners using Club Wyndham as a rental business. This is not the average owner. The average owners are the ones upgrading to VIP. TUG VIPs are already there and know not to enter into a retail purchase. As difficult as the Voyager introduction has been, I do not think it will create a blip on 3rd quarter earnings, jmo.

(The average TUG member is not "Everyone" and knows how a properly fitting timeshare [including Club Wyndham] can add immensely to their vacation enjoyment. That, at least, is my experience as an average timeshare owner who uses timeshares for personal vacations.)

Hello, new owner here, bought resale thanks to TUG and all the info posted in this subforum. As a new owner I only used the old system for about a month, and I really prefer the new one (voyager), maybe because I'm not "used to" the old one. I like online ARP, search by location, points logging.

I knew that Wyndham was going to get a lot of problems with the new system rollover, it'll take months to get bugs fixed, get feedback, code old features, but I think it was a necessity to bring the new system online from my IT guy point of view (points logging, cancel/rebook loophole).

I agree with CO skier, patience, and over time WE Wyndham owners will get a better system, with better accounting and better features than the old one.

There is going to be a LOT of bugs, problems and confusion with a system migration of this size. I think it's going fast, considering a 500k user base, data migration and a new system.

 

[BellaWyn]

You exaggerate.

Or, perhaps you exaggerate?

1) You have no data to support the porportionate perspective because you have no way of knowing how many lurkers are reading these forums (or those who do minimal amounts of posting) are VIP vs non-VIP. You cannot know what you cannot see. It's, much like sales, invented information your posturing of what's proportionate vs disproportionate. You can THINK it but you still don't KNOW it.

2) You inferred an absolute. All I did was disagree.

3) Fascinating that you seem so passionate about being the representing voice of ALL non-VIP owners in the entire system. Suggest you speak only for yourself and not for the entire non-VIP ownership base.

 

[Sandi Bo]

It not acceptable to roll out a system before it's ready. Sure there will be issues when rolling out a new system. But WYN had a responsibility to do this right. They couldn't, so they are implementing by brute force.

Patience is not an IT strategy.

 

[BellaWyn]

Patience is not an IT strategy.

Amen to that!

Imagine the chaos fallout if this had been a rollout of stock trading system.

The "Oop, sorry, we take it back" or "sorry, not all of your shares have been migrated yet" or "Sorry, the shares for those stocks have not been populated in the new system" approach would be hitting a mighty big fan for blowback.

Do not think the "patience" suggestion would sit well. Why should it for WYN owners?

 

[ronparise]

Or, perhaps you exaggerate?

1) You have no data to support the porportionate perspective because you have no way of knowing how many lurkers are reading these forums (or those who do minimal amounts of posting) are VIP vs non-VIP. You cannot know what you cannot see. It's, much like sales, invented information your posturing of what's proportionate vs disproportionate. You can THINK it but you still don't KNOW it.

2) You inferred an absolute. All I did was disagree.

3) Fascinating that you seem so passionate about being the representing voice of ALL non-VIP owners in the entire system. Suggest you speak only for yourself and not for the entire non-VIP ownership base.

I think COSkier is right.. this place does have a lot of VIP owners... But i think you are right too, The regular owner is a Vip

Ive been to a number of the annual meetings and im always surprised by the number of VIP owners in the room..It seems like nearly everyone is a VIP

 

[kukenan]

It not acceptable to roll out a system before it's ready. Sure there will be issues when rolling out a new system. But WYN had a responsibility to do this right. They couldn't, so they are implementing by brute force.

Patience is not an IT strategy.

Not an IT strategy, it's a user strategy.

In a system this big, wyndham IT maybe tested hundreds of use cases, but there are thousands.

 

[Bigrob]

I think COSkier is right.. this place does have a lot of VIP owners... But i think you are right too, The regular owner is a Vip

Ive been to a number of the annual meetings and im always surprised by the number of VIP owners in the room..It seems like nearly everyone is a VIP

It would not surprise me that the annual meetings are disproportionately represented by VIP owners who have the most invested. It may also be true that the more vocal posters on TUG and social media sites may be VIPs; larger point owners who use the system more and are generally more knowledgeable about it as a result. For the casual owner who may not even have set up an online account and always calls their friendly vacation counselor to book their vacations, they may not even notice the difference.

Having said that, such an owner is not truly a "user" of the system so their lack of negative input can't really be interpreted as meaningful.

 

[paxsarah]

Meanwhile, owners who had no access to the cancel/rebook/upgrade scam feel no effects from the automatic upgrades, because the average owner is not VIP and is not affected by the auto-upgrade benefit.

Non-VIP owners who make short-notice plans (I tend not to be one and try to plan 10-13 months out, but certainly these folks exist) will be impacted by the fact most inventory under 60 days may never make it to the website and will go straight to someone else's upgrade. Unless they're looking for a studio or 1BR, even the frequent searching and refreshing that used to occasionally catch someone's intended cancel/rebook will yield nothing.

Assuming the system functions like we think it will. Which, I guess, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Braindead]

When looked up the Orlando Sentinel article on the launch of Voger. I clicked on comments at the bottom.

First comment. Timeshare are a scam and everyone knows that. I don't feel sorry for them

 

[chapjim]

You can still cancel a reservation.

You can still book a reservation.

You can still upgrade a reservation, if you are VIP. And now the upgrade is automatic, so you do not have to spend hours searching. Bonus!

What have you lost?

This is maybe your smuggest, snarkiest post yet.

 

[tschwa2]

[QUOTE="CO skier, post: 2011062, member: 63558"

(The average TUG member is not "Everyone" and knows how a properly fitting timeshare [including Club Wyndham] can add immensely to their vacation enjoyment. That, at least, is my experience as an average timeshare owner who uses timeshares for personal vacations.)[/QUOTE]

That may be true but the facebook group has a lot less renters and still seems to have a large number of VIP who are angry and were sold to the tune of $100,000 plus on the ability to get 1 million points and get 2 million points or more through the cancel/rebook/upgrade method. At least 2/3's of the VIP's seemed to do this on a regular basis and are absolutely miffed because they felt they had been sold this right to use the system in that way.

Personally I would imagine many of these VIP's owned pre 2008 and saw those major changes with point transfers and guest certs so I am surprised that so many are so astonished that Wyndham would make a change that drastically affects their usage.

 

[ronparise]

This is maybe your smuggest, snarkiest post yet.

May be snarky. But he's right