I included a link to a real estate agent's website, where she indicates that the 2 bdrm HOA fees are $1858 to $2425 per month. Not sure why you think that that isn't accurate. Anyway, below is a listing for a 1240 sq. foot 2 bdrm/2 bath for sale at Honua Kai right now. (WKORV-N villas are 1230 sq. feet , so as true an apples to apples comparison as I could find.) The MFs for this unit are listed as $2133.
https://search.emauirealestate.com/maui/5-376389/130-KAI-MALINA-PKWY-606-Lahaina
Most of the utilities are covered with the MFs. "...(Honua Kai Maintenance) fee covers the costs for water, rubbish removal, sewer, landscaping, basic cable TV service, maintenance and electricity of all common elements, pest control, security, pool, capital reserves, payroll for the management/admin of the association, and insurance for the property...
Individual owners are responsible for electricity charges, phone/internet services, property taxes, and insurance."
https://www.hawaiirealestatesearch.com/blog/honua-kai-hoa-fees.html
So let's expand utility line to $1000 and it should more than cover phone/internet, homeowner's insurance, and electric:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forum...rt-term-rental-occupancy-rates-electric-bills
- Phone/Internet: Hawaii Telecom's best internet plan is $99.95/month and basic phone is $30/month. https://broadbandnow.com/Hawaiian-Telcom
- Homeowner's Insurance: Homeowner's insurance in Hawaii is actually pretty low, the average homeowner paying ~$1000 a year so that's $84/month. (Loren Clive, a residential real estate broker indicates in her 2nd posting linked below that she pays $469/year for her 1 bdrm/1 bath rental condo, so $1000 in right in line with that.
https://www.reviews.com/homeowners-insurance/hawaii/
https://www.aimforawesome.com/hawaii/moving-to-hawaii/hawaiis-high-cost-of-living/
- Electric: That leaves $785/month for electric, which seems reasonable as Loren Clive reported in her first post above that her monthly electric bills for a 1 bdrm/1 bath unit with 1 room a/c was $200-300/mo.
Nope. I actually included a link to the Maui County property tax website, where I linked to an actual 2 bdrm 1230 sq foot condo at Honua Kai. The half year taxes on this property are $6052.88x2 = $12,105.76. That is $1008.81 per month.
http://qpublic9.qpublic.net/hi_maui_display.php?KEY=440140060580
Please expand on this. Here's what I can come up with for a budget for a 5-year cycle. And keep in mind that these are retail prices. WKORV should receive significant volume discounts on just about everything I've listed, including mattresses, furniture, appliances, carpet, tile, curtains, and linens.
600 sq feet of carpet: $5000 - replaced every 5 years $5000
600 sq feet of tile: replaced every 10 years - $13,500 every 10 years or $6750
Painting: Materials and labor: $7300 - every 2.5 years - $14600
Mattress: $3000 x 2 beds - replaced every 5 years = $6000
Couch: $3500 couch and $2000 love seat replaced every 7 years = $5500
Dining table: $2000 replaced every 5 years - $2000
TVs: 42 inch: $600 x 2 - replaced every 5 years - $1200
Sheets, Pillows, comforters = $500 x 2 bdrms replaced every year = $5000
Towels: $200 x 2 bedrooms replaced every year = $400
Curtains: $1000 x 3 exterior windows replaced every 5 years = $3000
Fridge $1000: replaced every 10 years = $500
Fridge (compact): $520 - replaced every 5 years = $520
Stove: $650 - replaced every 10 years = $325
2 burner cooktop: $585 - replaced every 10 years = $292
Dishwasher: $850 - replaced every 5 years = $850
Compact dishwasher: $820 - replaced every 5 years = $820
Microwave $650 - replaced every 5 years = $650 x 2 = $1300
Washer/Dryer combo - $1500 - replaced every 10 years = $750 x 2 = $1500
Misc kitchen ware, irons, blow dryers: $300 - replaced every year = $1500
New granite: $7500 - replaced every 15 years = $2500
Lanai furniture: $500 - replaced every 5 years x 2 = $1000
Grand total.................$60,557
Am I missing anything major here?
Carpet cost: https://www.manta.com/cost-carpet-replacement-kihei-hi
Tile cost: https://www.manta.com/cost-tile-installation-kahului-hi
Painting cost: https://www.manta.com/cost-house-painting-kahului-hi
Furniture was replaced based on this guide: https://www.factotum.co.uk/2017/07/04/furniture-life-span/
Appliance replacement was assisted using this guide: https://www.mrappliance.com/expert-tips/appliance-life-guide/
Appliance costs are based on a middle of the road stainless steel model at Costco plus 30% Hawaii mark-up because I couldn't get my location to switch to Maui.
Front desk operations and security are covered in the $2133/month MFs. Housekeeping is a fair point. I'd add in $800/month for that. And, once again, keep in mind that I wouldn't enjoy the benefit of owning 600 units, which would bring the housekeeping cost down significantly.
It really doesn't matter what you call it because an owner is still on the hook for paying it. We're discussing the REAL cost of ownership vs. what y'all are paying for ownership. But if you insist, I'll revise it to $9200.
Here are my revised figures:
$2133 MFs
$1008 property taxes
$1000 utilities & homeowner's insurance
$1000 Capital Improvements
$800 Housekeeping
-------
$5941 WITHOUT any volume discounts
v. $9200, which is what WKORV is charging you.
What services are you talking about? Spa? Well, I can walk to the one at the Westin! There is an on-site restaurant, Duke's. II membership can be bought for $100/year.
P.S. I've probably have spent more time composing these posts than your friends have spent running the HOA.
For the property taxes, you have cherry picked one of the lowest valued 2BR at Honua Kai. The values of 2BR at Honua Kai are in the $1.6-1.7MM range.
Your replacement reserve estimates are still very much understated as are your assumptions on housekeeping costs.
Your HOA figure for Honua Kai is also low and not a true representation of the average blend for 2BR ownerships.
The Honua Kai HOAs most certainly do not include the full property management services an owner would need if renting their unit four weeks out of every month. That has to be added to your total. Do you know who provides these services and what they charge? For a true apples to apples comparison, it has to be a full property management provider.
I'm surprised that there are not more owners in this forum who stand up for the value of their ownership. There are several very prolific and loud posters on this forum who take as many negative angles as they can to discourage any kind of ownership, retail or resale. I'm guessing its because they either have an axe to grind or they have some other profit motive such as encouraging rentals of their own units instead of ownership. It certainly isn't a good thing for any owner that these voices are not challenged more.