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Harborside Owner's Update

Snowonbeach

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Attended an update a couple of days ago here at Harborside. Salesman said Vistana has new timeshares coming- Chicago, Aruba and San Diego and down the road Costa Rica, St. Martin and Dominican Republic. First we've heard this. He also talked about a new perk with II when you buy at Harborside. You can then trade your week for a cruise or get a 2 for 1 with their short stay program. Not interested in buying but we were curious about how accurate the information was as we did not hear any of this at our update in Arizona in October. By the way, cruise was accommodation only- did not include food!!
 

LisaRex

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Don't trust anything a salesman tells you. IMO the most reliable place to look for information is their official 10-K release which is released at the end of April. The only thing definitive in ILG's 2017's report is that they are going to develop additional phases of existing reports:

"During 2017 we opened nearly 700 units, The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa (179 units), The Westin Nanea Ocean Villas (390 units), as well as additional phases at The Westin Desert Willow Villas, Palm Desert (16units), and Sheraton Steamboat Resort (112 units). We had also completed additional units at The Westin St. John Resort Villas, however, due to Hurricane Irma, the entire resort remains closed. Additional units completed at Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch (24 units) and The Westin Desert Willow, Palm Desert (26 units) opened in early 2018.

Additionally, we began conversion of the The Westin Cancun Resort & Spa and the Sheraton Kauai Resort, that had previously been operated as hotels. We also began development of additional phases at Hyatt Residence Club Coconut Plantation and are planning to develop additional phases at several resorts over thenext three to five years. Costs incurred to date and expended in the future to complete the development of these properties is recorded in either inventory or property and equipment, net on our consolidated balance sheets. The costs recorded to property and equipment, net are related to the developer retained assets within the projects. See “Risk Factors” for further discussion of risks associated with real estate development activities.

In the future, we may pursue growth opportunities targeting the acquisition or development of inventory in new locations. We may pursue these opportunities independently, with third-party developers or outside capital sources."

Emphasis mine.

http://www.annualreports.com/HostedData/AnnualReports/PDF/NASDAQ_IILG_2017.pdf
 

DannyTS

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Don't trust anything a salesman tells you. IMO the most reliable place to look for information is their official 10-K release which is released at the end of April. The only thing definitive in ILG's 2017's report is that they are going to develop additional phases of existing reports:

So many things have happened since the 2017 ILG report was written.
I think the salesperson was referring to the expected integration of MVC, Vistana and possibly Hyatt properties that would give access to Aruba, Costa Rica and San Diego to the Vistana owners. I am not sure about the other locations.
 

DeniseM

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You can then trade your week for a cruise or get a 2 for 1 with their short stay program. Not interested in buying but we were curious about how accurate the information was as we did not hear any of this at our update in Arizona in October. By the way, cruise was accommodation only- did not include food!!

You have been able to trade for cruises, and short stays, for a long time - it's not new and it's not a perk of Vistana ownership:

-Not only do you have to trade your timeshare, but you have to pay a high fee that's just about as much as a discounted cruise.

-Food is included - it's ludicrous to even say it isn't.

-The short stay availability is very limited.

-You simply cannot believe anything you hear from a TS sales person.
 
Last edited:

LisaRex

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So many things have happened since the 2017 ILG report was written.

That may be true, but it takes years to complete an acquisition, a build-out of an existing phase, or a brand new resort. Until it's official enough to be mentioned in their 10-K report, it should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.

DannyTS said:
I think the salesperson was referring to the expected integration of MVC, Vistana and possibly Hyatt properties that would give access to Aruba, Costa Rica and San Diego to the Vistana owners. I am not sure about the other locations.

Expected by who? First of all, they already DO offer access to all those properties, via II. Beyond that, I don't see how it's in anyone's interest, be it TS owners or ILG, to spend tons of money and countless hours trying to integrate already complex systems into one. Vistana and Marriott already muddied their own waters by switching from deeded ownership to points ownership midstream, necessitating two distinct inventory pools. Can you even imagine trying to train an "ILG-integrated resorts" CSR to understand the "integrated" system...one that survived legal challenges for violating the Owner Agreements? Not only would it boggle their brains, but it would undoubtedly piss off large segments of owners.

"Let's see, ma'am, you want to book back-to-back weeks at Marriott Frenchman's Cove and Westin St. John? Well, if you're a former Marriott Chairman's Club member, you're entitled to book Marriott Frenchman's Cove at 13 months out, but you'll have to wait until 8 months to reserve WSJ, because we couldn't impede upon deeded owners' right to book their home resort up until 8 months out. And it'll cost you 2500 ILG points for the MFC week and 3500 for WSJ because back in the day, Marriott coded their week as shoulder season, while Starwood coded their week as platinum season. We tried to streamline the seasons, but were sued by the HOAs so now we have to keep the season intact, even though they make no sense.

Now, if you're a Marriott single-week points owner, you can book MFC at 13 months out if you pay a points premium, or you can book at 12 months out if you don't want to pay a premium. If you're an MFC deeded owner, you can book there at 12 months out. Otherwise, if you're a former Marriott single-week or Vistana single or multi-week owner, you have to wait until the exchange window opens at 10 months out. And good luck with that because Marriott multi-week owners already cherry picked all the good weeks at MFC!

Now, if you're a WSJ deeded fixed week owner, you have until 10 months out to confirm your week. If not, you have another 2 months to exchange to another week in your same regime at WSJ before anyone else can try and book there. If you're a Westin Club points owner, you can book WSJ at 12 months out, but you have to wait til 10 months out to book at MFC.

Now, if you're a deeded owner at any Vistana resort EXCEPT WSJ, and didn't buy from the developer, and didn't buy a mandatory resort on the resale market, you'll have to wait til 8 months out to book WSJ. But if you bought a voluntary resort on the resale market, it doesn't matter how many points your unit was assigned, you cannot exchange into any of the Vistana or Marriott properties, unless you paid $10,000 to buy into the ILG integrated system.

Alternatively, you can book at Westin Lagunamar in Cancun, which is worth 750 ILG points, which is what ILG deemed to be a fair valuation. Of course, that royally pissed off WLR platinum owners, who used to own a resort that had the same valuation as MFC and WSJ. But it could be worse: you could be a points owner at Vistana Villages or Marriott Grande Vista. They have a class action lawsuit against ILG over their valuations!"

Welcome to ILG. Our motto: "We're all one, big happy family."
 

Sea Six

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I don't listen to the sales people, but I will always take an update at Harborside. Take the resort credit - ANYTHING to offset the high cost of dining is a good thing! Just say NO!
 

TravelTime

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That may be true, but it takes years to complete an acquisition, a build-out of an existing phase, or a brand new resort. Until it's official enough to be mentioned in their 10-K report, it should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.



Expected by who? First of all, they already DO offer access to all those properties, via II. Beyond that, I don't see how it's in anyone's interest, be it TS owners or ILG, to spend tons of money and countless hours trying to integrate already complex systems into one. Vistana and Marriott already muddied their own waters by switching from deeded ownership to points ownership midstream, necessitating two distinct inventory pools. Can you even imagine trying to train an "ILG-integrated resorts" CSR to understand the "integrated" system...one that survived legal challenges for violating the Owner Agreements? Not only would it boggle their brains, but it would undoubtedly piss off large segments of owners.

"Let's see, ma'am, you want to book back-to-back weeks at Marriott Frenchman's Cove and Westin St. John? Well, if you're a former Marriott Chairman's Club member, you're entitled to book Marriott Frenchman's Cove at 13 months out, but you'll have to wait until 8 months to reserve WSJ, because we couldn't impede upon deeded owners' right to book their home resort up until 8 months out. And it'll cost you 2500 ILG points for the MFC week and 3500 for WSJ because back in the day, Marriott coded their week as shoulder season, while Starwood coded their week as platinum season. We tried to streamline the seasons, but were sued by the HOAs so now we have to keep the season intact, even though they make no sense.

Now, if you're a Marriott single-week points owner, you can book MFC at 13 months out if you pay a points premium, or you can book at 12 months out if you don't want to pay a premium. If you're an MFC deeded owner, you can book there at 12 months out. Otherwise, if you're a former Marriott single-week or Vistana single or multi-week owner, you have to wait until the exchange window opens at 10 months out. And good luck with that because Marriott multi-week owners already cherry picked all the good weeks at MFC!

Now, if you're a WSJ deeded fixed week owner, you have until 10 months out to confirm your week. If not, you have another 2 months to exchange to another week in your same regime at WSJ before anyone else can try and book there. If you're a Westin Club points owner, you can book WSJ at 12 months out, but you have to wait til 10 months out to book at MFC.

Now, if you're a deeded owner at any Vistana resort EXCEPT WSJ, and didn't buy from the developer, and didn't buy a mandatory resort on the resale market, you'll have to wait til 8 months out to book WSJ. But if you bought a voluntary resort on the resale market, it doesn't matter how many points your unit was assigned, you cannot exchange into any of the Vistana or Marriott properties, unless you paid $10,000 to buy into the ILG integrated system.

Alternatively, you can book at Westin Lagunamar in Cancun, which is worth 750 ILG points, which is what ILG deemed to be a fair valuation. Of course, that royally pissed off WLR platinum owners, who used to own a resort that had the same valuation as MFC and WSJ. But it could be worse: you could be a points owner at Vistana Villages or Marriott Grande Vista. They have a class action lawsuit against ILG over their valuations!"

Welcome to ILG. Our motto: "We're all one, big happy family."

I do not think it will be this complicated. I think IF they integrate, they will come up with simpler rules, like they did with Marriott weeks owners who elect destination points. They converted from weeks to DPs in 2010 and it works well IMO. I enrolled all my Marriott weeks this year even though they are post-2010 and it was expensive. The rules and availability is different if I book with a week vs book with with DPs. Even though it is more expensive, I prefer converting to DPs for the flexibility and I also get a 30% discount on DPs as a Presidential level member. I think MVC, assuming they integrate, will come up with an attractive offer.
 

DannyTS

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I don't see how it's in anyone's interest, be it TS owners or ILG, to spend tons of money and countless hours trying to integrate already complex systems into one. "
When MVC acquired ILG, the CEO said, “This will be the most transformational ownership company in the industry offering greater benefits and experience for its owners, member and guest".

The direction seems pretty clear to me. So yes, i expect some form of integration between MVC and Vistana, possibly Hyatt.
 

LisaRex

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I do not think it will be this complicated. I think IF they integrate, they will come up with simpler rules, like they did with Marriott weeks owners who elect destination points.

Yes, but remember when Marriott came up with their points system, they just had a pool of deeded owners. It was relatively simple to overlay a points structure on top of it. I cannot imagine overlaying another layer on top of that. The different companies didn't even treat high, low and shoulder season the same in like areas.

We shall see. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
 
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