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Forced to Use W57 Points for Flamingo Reservation

Discussion in 'Hilton Grand Vacations Club / HGVC' started by TheCryptkeeper, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. TheCryptkeeper

    TheCryptkeeper TUG Member

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    Location:
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    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC at the Flamingo
    West 57th St. By Hilton Club
    We own Hilton timeshares at the Flamingo and at W57 NYC. We used all of our Flamingo points previously this year and wanted to borrow points for a three-day visit this September. We were planning on saving our W57 NYC points for a trip sometime next year.

    We just found out, however, that the system will not allow us to borrow Flamingo points from next year while there is still a W57 By Hilton Club point balance for this year, which means we have to use our current year’s W57 NYC points for our Las Vegas trip.

    Calling reservations was useless. After checking with a supervisor, the representative said there was nothing they could do about the situation, that their system uses the oldest points first.

    It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. If the situation is reversed, the system will not use the Flamingo points for a W57 reservation, and instead borrows from next year’s W57 allocation (at least if it’s outside the 45-day window -- and good luck ever finding availability inside that 45-day window). This might be a good reason to consider keeping By Hilton Club and Hilton Grand Vacations ownerships separated.
     
  2. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    @TheCryptkeeper Sorry you got the runaround. I wrote a thread 8 months ago that the separation of points was a hassle and I do not believe staff understands it well.

    This might be a good workaround: Try booking a dummy 2018 NYC reservation with your remaining 2018 by Hilton club points. Using up the points will enable you to then borrow your Flamingo points. You can then release the dummy reservation once the res is confirmed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
    janckenn likes this.
  3. frank808

    frank808 TUG Member

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    I was going to suggest the same. No cost to book the dummy reservation as you belong to the club.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

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    Unless you dont have the AI membership as part of your West57 ownership? If you dont, just call member services and they can add it. All future reservations will be free :)

    I second booking the dummy reservation and then borrow the vegas points for your other trip.

    Wonder why club services didn't suggest that, unless they thought that it would incur another booking fee.
     
  5. TheCryptkeeper

    TheCryptkeeper TUG Member

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    West 57th St. By Hilton Club
    Must have missed that post, @CalGalTraveler. Thanks for the suggestions, all. We have the AI membership so I'll try the dummy reservation today and update you. But I wish they would fix this issue. It's a big PITA.
     
  6. TheCryptkeeper

    TheCryptkeeper TUG Member

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    Well, lesson learned the hard way. That appears like it will work, however, we already purchased a guest certificate (our daughter will be using the timeshare) and cancellation protection, which we'll forfeit if the original reservation is cancelled. Had we read @CalGalTraveler's post ahead of time, we could have avoided this expensive lesson.
     
  7. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

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    can't remember if we have a 24 hour grace period with HGVC as we have with RCI ?
     
  8. TheCryptkeeper

    TheCryptkeeper TUG Member

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    According to the representative I spoke with a short while ago (who I might add, wasn't the most pleasant) we would lose those fees. This reservation was placed approximately 12 hours ago. I agree with @CalGalTraveler's assessment. The staff doesn't understand the separation of points. Two representatives have told me that their system doesn't distinguish between points, which I know is false. If it were true, then we could utilize our Flamingo points to book at W57 outside the 45-day window.
     
  9. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    The specific rules are important to keep in mind here. When making a reservation the system uses last year points before current year points before next year points, without distinguishing. However, when making reservations at most resorts you must own at a resort and use your home week to use your points within the 9-12 month window. At certain resorts such as West 57th you must own there and use the points you own there for making a reservation before the 45 day window. I know it is tough to see the difference since you own there, however, some owners that don't own there and resent that there are different rules for certain resorts in the same club than others. Just think if what you want to do was allowed a person could have 50,000 points with only one small ownership at West 57th and use all of there points there before the 45 day window.
     
  10. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    @TheCryptkeeper I would HUCA and try again since it has only been 12 hours. That is not right. You have a right to reserve those points for a future NYC visit as you have paid extra for these points. It is not your fault the system is not set up to manage this correctly.

    98% of the time I have had a great rep who is happy help. Also there are some TUG posts that say that you should never pay for protection unless you are at the end of the year but I will defer to others since that's out of my wheelhouse.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  11. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    Call back. I had exactly this same situation happen and they were able to correct it (coincidentally, use our next year's Flamingo points instead of this year's W. 57th) for an Elara reservation. It took only a few minutes for them to do it.

    The "By Hilton Club" points cost more, the MFs are (generally) more, and they brought about the separation. For them to be unable to maintain the separation across year boundaries is unacceptable. I can even understand that the online system is not set up to do it yet, but the reps should be able to (and can) do this.

    I would definitely call back, more than once if need be, and escalate. Let them know that you have a friend/colleague (me :)) who did exactly this and it was easy to fix.

    Cheers.
     
  12. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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  13. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I need to correct the statement in my previous e-mail related to this topic. I was suggesting that the TheCryptkeeper couldn't use his Flamingo Points to book West 57th. However, I agree that TheCryptkeeper should call back and if the call staff cannot switch to the use of next years Flaming points for the non West 57st reservation then an escalation to a supervisor or higher level person is in order to get an exception to the reservation point utilization rules. While the statement about points being points having special reservation rules for certain resorts causes conflicts which need to be resolved on a case by case basis.
     
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  14. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    Oh, it wasn't a PITA for me at all- very easy to handle. It would be a PITA if I had called and they would not do it. Most of what I wrote relates to that case, which didn't impact me. It was quite easy that time.

    I would like it to work directly in the website, but that's a minor inconvenience.

    Cheers.
     
  15. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    It is a PITA for me because I now need to call to make sure it is right. This includes RCI reservations which may pull from the wrong bucket or return to the wrong bucket.

    More diligence and time required for a rule they made up which costs all of HGVC more because you must use the call center. I know call center use is free for W57 but sometimes I would like to just get the transaction done online during off hours.
     
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  16. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    Oh I hear ya- don't get me wrong. It's just that I expect this to happen no more than once a year, if that, so the level of inconvenience, averaged out, is small.

    But it was enough for me to just send them an email to (again) explain the problem, let them know that it's "not ok," and ask when we can expect it to be fixed. :)

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
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  17. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I am not sure which rule you are having a problem with. Please specify. The problem that you have with desiring to select on the website which points you want to use since you own West 57th Street as well as other resorts that don't have special reservation rules is certainly something that HGVC could have their IT people work on.

    However, my thoughts are:

    First of all they shouldn't have made resorts with special reservation rules. Just as owners at all resort need to reserve within the first 90 days(270-365 before the start date) to get owner preference, West 57th street should have the same rules if they are part of the same club.

    Second, HGVC took a number of years to just get straight adding one day to a reservation that didn't have all the days available when your own reservation had the days. This effected ALL HGVC members.

    Third, I have complained for 2 years that the new Website won't let you add nights beyond 26 on line and have to call to add nights even though a reservation can go up to 30 nights. Again this is an issue for ALL HGVC members.
     
  18. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    However, they are not part of the same club. This is why the rules differ.

    Cheers.
     
  19. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    The issue is that they took a 1 × 3 (this year, 2019, 2020) points tracking problem and turned it into a 2 x 3 problem. Double the complexity - they tried to kill an ant with a sledgehammer.

    Totally agree that they are over complicating things. Although they think it adds to their topline, complexity adds hidden costs and frustrates customers. There is a reason so many people like Southwest because they offer points redemption, 2 checked bags, no fee cancellation etc on ALL flights - simple.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
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  20. Denise L

    Denise L Tug Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    This is frustrating to read, and I hope that the OP called back again and again until the transaction was fixed to use the Flamingo points and not the W57 points, with all extra fees refunded. I can see this happening to me in the future when I finally find my W57 contract. I will always have to make a dummy W57 reservation using W57 points before I book anything if I want to only use my Elara points. HGVC still hasn't gotten back to me about the problem with not being able to book a single night anymore at W57 at 44/45 days from checkout.
     
  21. TheCryptkeeper

    TheCryptkeeper TUG Member

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    Thanks for all the advice. After calling Hilton a third time and speaking with another representative that conferred with her supervisor, the representative again insisted points were points and that their system doesn’t distinguish between Club points and By Hilton Club Points. She claimed she had made reservations at W57 many times for people who didn’t have any By Hilton Club points remaining but still had a balance of Club points. She said one of the perks of owning at W57 was that I could use either type of point to book there.


    I explained that that may have been the case previously, but not any longer. I then recited the Club rules to her, at which point she agreed with me and agreed to change my reservation without any charge for the new guest certificate and points protection. However, when she tried to borrow the points from my Flamingo account, the system once again took them from my W57 allotment. She said it was a glitch and made the new reservation with a note to a higher-level supervisor. As of right now, the points are still missing from my By Hilton Club balance. We’ll see how this goes and I’ll keep everyone posted.


    They really need to get this resolved. I don’t have a problem not being able to use my Club points at W57 since that's the rule. However, I do have a problem if they force me to use my W57 points to book at Flamingo or another HGVC resort, leaving me with less points to use at W57 after I pay a premium for those points.
     
  22. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    When I did it, it also had to be done by a supervisor. I was told that the balances would work themselves out within 24 hours. It took far less than that.

    What is disappointing here is the the CS folks, in many cases, don't actually know that one can no longer use regular points for By Hilton Club reservations. One guy said that it was definitely possible. He tried and then said "oh, I guess not." They have not educated their staff, it seems.

    It was a nice loophole while it lasted. Now that they've really closed it, I certainly expect the staff to know the rules.

    Cheers.
     
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  23. TheCryptkeeper

    TheCryptkeeper TUG Member

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    Well, it's been almost 24 hours and the balances have NOT worked themselves out yet. After three phone calls and two hours on the phone I am still exactly where I was at the beginning of this entire mess. Hopefully, it will be resolved by this evening and the 460 By Hilton Club points will be returned. If they're not, I guess another phone call and more wasted time is in order. Thank you for all the support and allowing me to vent.
     
  24. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I thought West 57th street was part of the HGVC. If they are NOT in the same club then the points should be listed separately and accounted for separately and only those points should be used for reservations for those clubs. Then exchanges between those clubs, just like with RCI, should be done according to the rules that are established between those two clubs. Perhaps, just as HGVC members can't reserve West 57th until 45days out, West 57th street owners can't reserve at HGVC resorts until 45 days out, can't use open season cash at HGVC resorts, and perhaps pay a Housekeeping fee for less than 7 day stays!
     
  25. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Not true. W57 and all By Hilton Club enjoys all the privileges of HGVC with 9 month club, open season etc. But HGVC is limited in By Hilton Club to 44 day leftovers and no open season in By Hilton Club
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
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