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Follow up to 20 year who died in swimming pool

Discussion in 'Mexico Timesharing' started by saabman, Nov 29, 2018.

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  1. saabman

    saabman Guest

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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  2. Phydeaux

    Phydeaux TUG Member

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    Shame. These two kids drank themselves into oblivion, upon arrival, on no doubt empty stomachs. Dive into the shallow end of the pool, and bad things are going to happen. Now Mom & Dad are going to try to benefit from the needless loss of their daughter.

    Here's a thought: teach your underage kid that it's ILLEGAL to drink alcohol, and binge drinking of any kind, any where as an adolescent is ILLEGAL and WRONG. And, you, their parent, will not tolerate it.

    Now, go get some money on the grave of your daughter.

    Shame. Absolute, and unforgivable shame.

    Btw, tainted alcohol, my a$$. Post one single proof of tainted alcohol. Not unregistered, or mislabeled. TAINTED! See Websters if you need clarification. How many million tourists visit Mexico annually? And how many proven cases of TAINTED alcohol have been documented?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  3. Sandy VDH

    Sandy VDH TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

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    I think the issue is not that they were drunk but that there was "Tainted" alcohol which made them sick and pass out, which is an entirely different matter.
     
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  4. Phydeaux

    Phydeaux TUG Member

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    Re-read my post. Then research the effects of 0.28 BAC.

    Can't wait to see the result of this suit. Forensic toxicology will need to prove "tainted", adulterated alcohol.

    Let's bookmark this page, and wait for the results of that, shall we?
     
  5. Sandy VDH

    Sandy VDH TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

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    They were NOT drinking illegally in Mexico, as the drinking as is 18, in Canada it is 19. ONLY the US it is 21, everywhere else it is less. My points was being underage is NOT the issue.

    I have heard other stories of unexplained blackouts.

    So to blame the victims without any investigation is questionable. So tainted or too much, not my call.

    Sad outcome either way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  6. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    A TUG Mexican forum thread that debated the issues surrounding this specific death had to be closed by the moderator .

    The linked article is from a Wisconsin newspaper about a lawsuit filed in Florida .
    I am not sure how it is related to Timesharing in Mexico .

    The resort listed is I believe :
    1 ) an AI - all inclusive - a format sometimes deemed costly & with limitations in this forum.
    2 ) a resort for which I have never seen a resale or rental timeshare listing . IMO it is not a timeshare but rather a developer run hotel / resort in a sunny vacation location .

    *****
    If we wish to debate - lawyers with issues connected to developer hotel properties -I would suggest moving this thread to the Russian Forum .
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  7. davidvel

    davidvel TUG Member

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    Your advice goes both ways. "Post one single proof" that they drank themselves into oblivion (as opposed to having unknowingly been given everclear or similar); had empty stomachs; and that they dove into the shallow end of the pool.

    Yes that thread was shut down because too many people could not refrain from asserting that their speculation and opinion were facts. And it begins again...:doh:
     
  8. PigsDad

    PigsDad TUG Member

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    Just one comment and then I'm out of here: It was a published fact that her BAC was 0.28; any person would need to do some serious drinking to get the BAC to that level -- definitely more than a couple of drinks. And it takes some time for the body to absorb enough alcohol to raise the BAC to that level. Not sure what, if anything else contributed, but I don't see how a .28 BAC cannot be considered a major factor in the accident.

    Kurt
     
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  9. Phydeaux

    Phydeaux TUG Member

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    0.28 BAC is very close to fatal. To be clear, the person isn't drunk, they are inebriated.

    BAC = .25-.30 = Drinkers display general inertia, near total loss of motor functions, little response to stimuli, inability to stand or walk, vomiting, and incontinence. Drinkers may lose consciousness or fall into a stupor.
    .25 - .29 Almost all aspects of your brain are severely impaired. You may have passed out by this point. Vomiting is likely and the chance of asphyxiation on your own vomit is greatly increased. If you haven't passed out, the risk of personal injury is high because you have little to no physical control. You are emotionally numb.
     
  10. saabman

    saabman Guest

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    FYI –– In Wisconsin it is perfectly legal for persons under age 21 to possess and consume alcohol beverages if they are with their parents, guardians or spouses of legal drinking age; but this is at the discretion of the licensee. Note: 12 of the top 20 "drunkest cities in US" are in Wisconsin. They start young, they drink hard.
     
  11. SandyPGravel

    SandyPGravel Guest

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    Please don't generalize Wisconsin. Is Wisconsin the only state that alcohol can be provided to someone under 21?

    Not all of us start drinking young or drink hard.

    Not all parents(spouses or guardians) here provide alcohol to underage kids.

    A good portion of those cities on the list are college towns. Similar incidents happens when kids go off to college anywhere. Look at the stories of what has happened during pledge weeks.

    I agree that Wisconsin has a chummy relationship with alcohol. We also have the most lenient drunk driving laws and I think the lowest tax on alcohol. Not all of us are falling down drunks.

    None of that addresses whether or not the alcohol was tainted at the resort in question. A lot of inexperienced drinkers would be more likely to over indulge when given the opportunity. (i.e. legal to drink at 18 in MX and all you want to drink.)
     
  12. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    interesting to note, in the last 18 months half of your comments on TUG are about this case. Moreover, you almost promise to keep us up to date in the future. Why are you drawn to this story more than any other story?
     
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  13. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    also interesting to note both the article and the OP fail to publish the hotel chain response so this seems just an attempt to promote one side of the story

    The public relations firm hired by Iberostar Hotels and Resorts sent the following reply to an email requesting an interview:

    “As a preliminary matter, we must emphasize that no tainted or adulterated alcohol has been found at any of the Iberostar properties in Mexico. The Mexican consumer and health authorities, Profeco and Cofepris, recently inspected forty-three bars and restaurants at five of the Iberostar-flagged hotels in Mexico and found that none of the alcohol on the premises was in any manner tainted or adulterated.

    We are aware that certain individuals have made claims of tainted alcohol being served at various resorts in Mexico. If there were bottles of tainted or adulterated alcohol being served, the effects of that would have been felt by many people at the same time. Yet, the claims of tainted alcohol are isolated and unsubstantiated. On the rare occasions when we have been made aware of such allegations at Iberostar, we have investigated and have found no evidence of tainted or adulterated alcohol to corroborate the claims.

    To reiterate, no tainted or adulterated alcohol has been found anywhere on the premises of any of the Iberostar-flagged properties in Mexico, as confirmed by Mexico authorities last month.

    In Mexico, Iberostar-flagged properties welcome more than half a million guests per year. The high quality of products and services is the crucial element that has attracted so many guests to our resorts and guest satisfaction has always been the Iberostar brand’s primary objective. In providing services to our guests:

    We always work with top-of-the-line partners and providers whose services we submit to routine and thorough controls, as well as yearly audits.

    The entire supply of alcoholic beverages offered at Iberostar-flagged hotels in Mexico is obtained from reputable and licensed distributors. All alcoholic beverages are delivered in sealed containers and pursuant to appropriate licenses to guarantee quality and optimal conditions for consumption.

    The external audits done at our hotels certify our diligent and responsible handling of all sanitary and hygienic measures, following federal legislation, local regulations, and the standards of the FTO – Health & Safety Technical Guide, Codex Alimentarius, and HACCP system.

    We have been deeply saddened by the death of Ms. Conner while she was a guest at the Iberostar Paraiso del Mar. Our hearts go out to her family and friends. Following her death, we conducted a comprehensive and thorough investigation. As you can well understand, due to threats of litigation in the matter, we are constrained in our ability to respond to your allegations. However, we can state unequivocally that there is no evidence whatsoever that Ms. Conner consumed tainted alcohol, and there is no evidence whatsoever that her death was the result of any action on the part of the hotel’s personnel. To the contrary, the hotel staff worked diligently to try to save Ms. Conner and her brother.

    We note that no other person at the hotel reported any complaints regarding the consumption of alcohol around the time of Ms. Conner’s death, and there were more than 1,400 adult guests at the Iberostar Paraiso del Mar at that time and more than 6,000 adult guests at all of the Iberostar-flagged Riviera Maya hotels.”
     
  14. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    Sad outcome indeed. I am truly sorry for their loss. No parent should live to bury their children. With that being said, nobody is blaming the victim because we do not know who 's the victim because we do not know what the truth is . The victims might be the poor dead girl and her family. But if this was an accident, the victims may be the hotel workers who might be erroneously accused of a crime.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  15. TravelTime

    TravelTime TUG Member

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    I think it is clear that the victim is a dead 20 year old girl. Do we need to post her dead body on TUG as proof?
     
  16. TravelTime

    TravelTime TUG Member

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    I hope you are aware that PR is “spin.”
     
  17. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    as you know, English is not my mother tongue but this is the definition of the word "victim". Just because someone dies, IMHO, it does not mean he/she is a victim

    vic·tim
    /ˈviktəm/
    noun
    noun: victim; plural noun: victims
    1. a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
      synonyms: sufferer, injured party, casualty; More
      • a person who is tricked or duped.
        "the victim of a hoax"
        synonyms: loser, prey, stooge, dupe, sucker, quarry, fool, fall guy, chump; More

      • a living creature killed as a religious sacrifice.
        synonyms: sacrifice, offering, burnt offering, scapegoat
        "he offered himself as a victim"
     
  18. TravelTime

    TravelTime TUG Member

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    Here is my theory. The 20 year old girl was involved in a local religious sacrifice and drank too much alcohol. So now the family is blaming tainted alcohol in order to get a settlement. So I guess she might fit your definition of a victim.

    Added: Before someone tries to repost this or debate it, I want to mention this was an attempt at humor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  19. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    I am aware that PR is spin. However, I do not think that a company like Iberostar would bluntly lie in a press release, let alone in one that is related to a court litigation. There are sufficient elements in that press release that suggest to me that there is a very low chance that this happened in reality.
     
  20. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    I would laugh but i find all this too sad.

    Who the hack knows what happened. The victims might be the parents, dragged thorough a long and painful lawsuit by sleazy lawyers, condemned to live over and over with the image of their dead daughter. I know who is going to profit from this regardless of the outcome.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  21. geist1223

    geist1223 Guest

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    We argued about all this when it first happen. Can we drop it and move on to something more important and interesting.
     
  22. Phydeaux

    Phydeaux TUG Member

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    Oh good grief! Apparently you're not familiar with the facts of this tragedy. The parents allowed their kids to imbibe at the 'all you can drink, no charge, AI" on arrival. So, they did. One is now dead. A casualty of binge drinking upon arrival. The VICTIM is ABBEY! If this poor girl could speak from her grave, I'm sure it would be don't make the mistake I made. Instead of seeking a CASH settlement perhaps the 'victim" parents could join an existing, or spearhead their own "DONT BINGE DRINK" campaign.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  23. Phydeaux

    Phydeaux TUG Member

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    Deleted by phydeaux
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  24. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    I read the actual lawsuit. The plaintiffs do not even mention the actual substance that caused her death. There is also a lot of circular "evidence". This newspaper is mentioned several times in the lawsuit; the newspaper offers no evidence for its statements. The same articles from this newspaper seem to be the only basis for the countrywide media campaign against this resort. Then the other articles are mentioned in the lawsuit as a basis to "confirm" the same claims.

    I am originally from a country (European, not Latin American) where farmers produce their own alcohol, most times of a better quality than those you can find in shops. So provided that artisanally produced alcohol was ever served (a big if) , how is that proof that it was the cause of death?

    As I said before, we do not know what happened. Maybe the resort is at fault or it may be it's a tragedy not caused by the resort followed by a classic attempt to extort a multi-national corporation.

    By they way, i stayed at Iberostar Paraiso Maya few years ago. Not necessarily my favorite resort but i never suspected or heard of anything like this. The resort is not a timeshare as far as i can remember.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  25. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Thank you for posting that; it seems (at least to me) like the only value added aspect of this thread.
     
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