Dumping of timeshares is coming.....Prepare yourself for big maintenance fee increases and special a

[OldGuy]

My purchases have always been based on the value of use so feel that the rental rate is a better comparison.

Back in the day I used to contend that rental rates were a good tool to determine equal exchanges, so that a studio unit some places at some times was equivalent to a two-bedroom at some place some times . . . but there wasn't much support for that.

 

[OldGuy]

Own fewer - pay less annual fee.

 

[Panina]

That's one of the reasons that points systems work. Own fewer points - pay less annual fee.

No, not in HGVC. You can have less points due to season and still pay the same maintenance fees.

 

[rapmarks]

I added up my total cost of purchasing timeshares including closing costs. I disposed of all my timeshares. I did get one gifted this year that I use, don’t deposit.
I divided my total costs by number of times I used, exchanged or bought an extra vacation. My cost amounted to under $10 per week I used. I can’t complain.

Now that I refigured it, more like 6 or 7 dollars per week

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

No, not in HGVC. You can have less points due to season and still pay the same maintenance fees.

Then that's not truly a points system. In a points system you own points, and season is irrelevant. Use more points at peak time, use fewer points off-season. And your mf is $/pt.

 

[JohnPaul]

Then that's not truly a points system. In a points system you own points, and season is irrelevant. Use more points at peak time, use fewer points off-season. And your mf is $/pt.

Agree. I call that a hybrid point system - points layered onto weeks.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I added up my total cost of purchasing timeshares including closing costs. I disposed of all my timeshares. I did get one gifted this year that I use, don’t deposit.
I divided my total costs by number of times I used, exchanged or bought an extra vacation. My cost amounted to under $10 per week I used. I can’t complain.

That sounds almost unbelievable. Could you detail some of your calculations?

Which side you fall under in this debate is whether you consider your MF as a cost of ownership or a cost of use. The industry is set up as a cost of ownership in fact making it illegal to charge varying amounts in a lot of states. My purchases have always been based on the value of use so feel that the rental rate is a better comparison. There are not enough resorts that change varying fees depending on season to be able to do the experiment as to whether that would be healthier or not for the industry and resorts. The advent of points does do this somewhat and I believe the general rule of thumb here is that most like points. Of course there is no way to coax out if the advantage is more flexibility in destination as opposed to flexibility of season.

The fact that you pay the same maintenance for prime weeks as for off season weeks but more points or exchange power was never emphasized when you buy. Particularly when you buy from the developer at the table. They use the off season weeks to enable them to lower the price so you buy and think you getting a good deal since your getting the timeshare for less money. I remember the one resort we did buy from the table the sales person emphasized that since we were buying a red season gold crown week that you never will be staying in gold crown resorts. I remember the first time share we bought that we cancelled right away was an II VALUE week. We didn't know what that meant, but when we found out that it was off season and we wanted to use the timeshare during prime season we couldn't cancel it quick enough.

 

[rapmarks]

That sounds almost unbelievable. Could you detail some of your calculations?


Two resale timeshares paid 1200 in 1991 used twenty years, sold for five hundred, and another udi timeshare I got for closing cost, used a year and a half, made 25 deposits with it, gave it back. . Over two hundred stays at home resort, trades and extra vacation from 1991 to 2019, equals ten or less cost of ownership per week I got out of being a timeshare owners. In 1991 they were not giving timeshares away. It wasn’t til a few years later I discovered I overpaid. I am sure there are many here who sunk less into their timeshare acquisition.


The fact that you pay the same maintenance for prime weeks as for off season weeks but more points or exchange power was never emphasized when you buy. Particularly when you buy from the developer at the table. They use the off season weeks to enable them to lower the price so you buy and think you getting a good deal since your getting the timeshare for less money. I remember the one resort we did buy from the table the sales person emphasized that since we were buying a red season gold crown week that you never will be staying in gold crown resorts. I remember the first time share we bought that we cancelled right away was an II VALUE week. We didn't know what that meant, but when we found out that it was off season and we wanted to use the timeshare during prime season we couldn't cancel it quick enough.

 

[dioxide45]

How does this work, never heard of this.

It is a Florida thing. The property tax allocated to each week is based on the season you own. So lesser seasons pay lower property tax on their unit/week. Some other states (like California or the USVI) bill property taxes separately and base it on valuation or purchase price.

 

[Tamaradarann]

You are just calculating your cost of purchase and selling of the timeshares that you owned, not the Maintenance Costs, Exchange Costs, or Extra Vacation Costs. Using just the cost of purchase the my HGVC timeshares that I purchased resale from 2006-2009 the cost would be less than $40/night and going down each year. (since we stay as much as 4 months in one stay I can't calculate per stay). I haven't sold them yet so I don't know what that might bring in to lower the initial purchase cost. I usually don't think of my value of purchasing the timeshare in those terms. I use the cost of the hotels if we needed to pay for those for all the nights we stay in a timeshare. The cost over those years would be about $400,000.

 

[rapmarks]

You are just calculating your cost of purchase and selling of the timeshares that you owned, not the Maintenance Costs, Exchange Costs, or Extra Vacation Costs. Using just the cost of purchase the my HGVC timeshares that I purchased resale from 2006-2009 the cost would be less than $40/night and going down each year. (since we stay as much as 4 months in one stay I can't calculate per stay). I haven't sold them yet so I don't know what that might bring in to lower the initial purchase cost. I usually don't think of my value of purchasing the timeshare in those terms. I use the cost of the hotels if we needed to pay for those for all the nights we stay in a timeshare. The cost over those years would be about $400,000.

Right, I said I could add that to the cost. I purchased when timeshares still had a resale value, and I am basically at the end of my timesharing. My cost per trip would be artificially lower as exchange fee was lower and maintenance fee lower in the nineties. But I am saying the cost of owning a timeshare worked out to be negligible by the time I got out. And I think that there are many with lower sink costs than me.
Back in 2002 and 2003 I only owned two weeks. I received some rci special vacation certificates for $129 for a week. I exchanged into New Orleans and Biloxi then did ten straight bonus weeks in sw Florida along the coast until we found our home. Couldn’t do that now in terms of cost or availability. I think people who purchased resale after 2007 probably will eventually exit with only the sunk cost of closing cost. No one was giving away timeshares when we originally bought in.

 

[rapmarks]

We have some friends we have invited many times to join us in key west, Marco island, siesta key, Palm beach, and other places. They usually won’t come even though it is a short drive. They insist timeshares are a big scam, there is no possible way they work financially. They just laugh at me as if I were naive when I explain about the cost. They don’t bother to listen to any details.

 

[geist1223]

We have some friends we have invited many times to join us in key west, Marco island, siesta key, Palm beach, and other places. They usually won’t come even though it is a short drive. They insist timeshares are a big scam, there is no possible way they work financially. They just laugh at me as if I were naive when I explain about the cost. They don’t bother to listen to any details.

I remember when Patti and I first bought in to Timesharing together she contacted her Financial Advisor to have money transferred to her Checking Account to pay her half. Her Financial Advisor was very upset and down on timeshares. After a few years and a couple trips (Hawaii and Australia) with us she admitted she was wrong. She said we were using our timeshare to the Max and that for us it was a good purchase.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I remember when Patti and I first bought in to Timesharing together she contacted her Financial Advisor to have money transferred to her Checking Account to pay her half. Her Financial Advisor was very upset and down on timeshares. After a few years and a couple trips (Hawaii and Australia) with us she admitted she was wrong. She said we were using our timeshare to the Max and that for us it was a good purchase.

Whether timesharing is a good purchase depends on the life goals that you want with your purchase. The cost of the timeshare and maintenance fees are obviously important. However, some other things to consider are: 1.Where do you want to vacation? 2.How many weeks a year do you want to vacation? 3.How many people will be vacationing? 4.How long is the timeline ford you have to vacation. 5.What will you do with the timeshare after you no longer plan on vacationing? 6.If you are going to let your children inherit the timeshare, do they want it and will they pay the maintenance fee? 7. Can you sell them when you are finished vacationing:

Our initial cost was about 60K. Our maintenance is about 6K/year. We have been able to use our timeshares to vacation in Hawaii for many months for the last 12 years which would have cost over $30,000/year if we didn't own timeshares. Therefore, we feel we have been successful in accomplishing 1-4 in our list already. As far as 5-7 since we don't have any takers in our family at this time, we hope to be able to sell them when we are through which is one of the concerns that we have with our purchase.

 

[OldGuy]

All owners pay the same at our Florida resort, this year $503.

 

[tonyg]

Does that fee include taxes and is it for all unit sizes - what unit size if there is more than one ? Sounds pretty good, but perhaps not any better than my resort.

 

[OldGuy]

Both 1 and 2 bedroom units.

 

[bogey21]

I just finished reading 3 posts ahead of this one. One was someone potentially losing their Wyndham pooled points; another was someone not knowing that Diamond could rent out their Week if they didn't confirm it; and a third was a discussion about the Marriott Points skim. These all require staying on top of what you own. The thought that crosses my mind is how do non Tuggers manage all this stuff...

George

 

[OldGuy]

The thought that crosses my mind is how do non Tuggers manage all this stuff...

George

ignorance is bliss
phrase of ignorance
PROVERB
if you do not know about something, you do not worry about it.

 

[tonyg]

Or as the prince in Mad Magazine said "What, Me Worry".

 

[tonyg]

Well that's an odd wrinkle - same cost for one or two bedroom. You failed to mention if taxes were included and how much, if so. You also seem to be avoiding telling us what resort that you own - what is it ?

 

[OldGuy]

Who, me?

$503 is it.

$503.

Period.

No more of anything.

It's a resort only it's mother would love, and the owners like it that way.

- - - - - -

Something interesting (to me) . . . I decided to take a look at the financial statements for the three resorts we owned at in 2018, to see how (if) their different management styles affected the finances.

The first, and most, interesting thing is that two of the resorts do not provide a financial statement, or a full budget, just a breakdown of the annual fee (how much goes for what), and one of the resorts doesn't even do that.

I'm shocked that any resort would not report the finances to owners.

The one that does, provides last year's budget, the coming year's budget, and a detailed breakdown of every penny from every account, a breakdown of the reserve schedule, and more, all of that coming as an annual audit from an outside firm.

It's too late to get into tonight, as I have an early and big day tomorrow.

So, how many of you get a financial statement, or budget, from your resort(s)?

 

[missyrcrews]

Who, me?

$503 is it.

$503.

Period.

No more of anything.

It's a resort only it's mother would love, and the owners like it that way.

- - - - - -

Something interesting (to me) . . . I decided to take a look at the financial statements for the three resorts we owned at in 2018, to see how (if) their different management styles affected the finances.

The first, and most, interesting thing is that two of the resorts do not provide a financial statement, or a full budget, just a breakdown of the annual fee (how much goes for what), and one of the resorts doesn't even do that.

I'm shocked that any resort would not report the finances to owners.

The one that does, provides last year's budget, the coming year's budget, and a detailed breakdown of every penny from every account, a breakdown of the reserve schedule, and more, all of that coming as an annual audit from an outside firm.

It's too late to get into tonight, as I have an early and big day tomorrow.

So, how many of you get a financial statement, or budget, from your resort(s)?

I do. It comes in our annual letter, is shown/discussed/voted upon at our annual meeting, and it's also available to owners online. I could get the annual audit if I wanted a copy. Pretty transparent...as it should be.

 

[tonyg]

We vote on a proposed budget at our annual meeting or via snail mail. I don't know if a budget has ever been voted down - but I do remember voting against one. But, I think you are heading us off track and we should get back to the "coming" demise of timesharing. I can understand why you are reluctant to provide details.

 

[Tamaradarann]

We vote on a proposed budget at our annual meeting or via snail mail. I don't know if a budget has ever been voted down - but I do remember voting against one. But, I think you are heading us off track and we should get back to the "coming" demise of timesharing. I can understand why you are reluctant to provide details.

Old Guy keeps talking about his resort having only $503 annual maintenance fees, but he won't tell us what resort it is. I can't tell why he is not providing details. However, when I read that tonyg said "I can understand why you are reluctant to provide details" I couldn't help but think about what Dana Carvey kept saying in a Saturday Night Live skit: "Is it Satan"