TUG MEMBERS: Joining TUG does not automatically register you as a user of the TUG Bulletin Board. You must register yourself.


*ads are disabled when logged in as a member*
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 25 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $12,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $12Million dollars
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. TUG is trying out a new program that will trade you a TUG membership for a Timeshare resort review if you are an expired member, or even just a guest here on the forums!

    Read more here
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
    Dismiss Notice
  8. TUG has now joined Priceline.com as an affiliate!

    Members and guests who book air travel, rental cars and even Cruise Vacations thru TUG's priceline links will now support TUG in the process!

    Read more here
  9. A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
    Dismiss Notice

Dumping of timeshares is coming.....Prepare yourself for big maintenance fee increases and special a

Discussion in 'US - Eastern States Timesharing' started by oceanbreeze, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. PigsDad

    PigsDad TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC Elite: SeaWorld, Surf Club, Charter Club, Valdoro
    I would agree with that logic, and it seems to match my experience in owning hotel-branded timeshares for the last 15 years. Very modest annual increases (2-4%), and no special assessments -- even though two of our timeshares took a direct hurricane hit that caused enough damage for them to be shut down for several weeks.

    @bogey21: George -- given that hotel-branded timeshares have been around for several decades, why to you think all of a sudden their MFs will start increasing to the point they will be "in serious trouble 10-15 years down the road"? Years of past data certainly doesn't support that prediction. What do you see changing?

    On the contrary, the resorts that have gotten themselves into a death spiral of defaults that lead to higher MFs that lead to more defaults to higher MFs, etc., have almost always been smaller, independent timeshares.

    Kurt
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    Shaun likes this.
  2. T_R_Oglodyte

    T_R_Oglodyte TUG Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    11,060
    Likes Received:
    804
    Trophy Points:
    548
    Location:
    Belly-View, WA
    IMHO - many of the resorts that have gone into death spiral are properties that were marginal for timeshare to begin with, due to there being a large off-peak period where units have little value. In many cases those are HOA managed, independent properties, because the developer sold the units and then moved on, having made their money. That was common in the early days of timesharing.

    The hotel-branded timeshares are much savvier about only creating inventory in areas where there is reasonable year-round demand. They are in the business of operating, not just building, so they know to pay attention to that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    klpca and PigsDad like this.
  3. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,576
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    293
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC South Beach, HGVC Las Vegas, HGVC Las Vegas on the Strip, HGVC Sea World, Misner Place
    I totally agree with your thinking here. That is one of the reasons that the Hilton Grand Vacation Club has such a great amount of inventory in Honolulu(5), Island of Hawaii(4), NYC(4), Las Vegas(4), and Orlando(4). Many criticize them for continuous building and renovating in those areas and not branching out to a lot of other locations but they are cautious and have only dabbled in a few other select locations.
     
  4. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Resorts Owned:
    some
    For certain, if the market rental value of a week is not as much as the maintenance fee, which is true in many places many weeks, that could be a sign . . . .

    After all, with Internet it is pretty easy for folks to rent for less that owners are paying.
     
    LannyPC likes this.
  5. SteelerGal

    SteelerGal TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    90740
    Resorts Owned:
    WDW, WKV, SDO, HPP, HH, Bay Club
    HGVC also has marketed successfully to foreign markets.
     
  6. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,576
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    293
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC South Beach, HGVC Las Vegas, HGVC Las Vegas on the Strip, HGVC Sea World, Misner Place
    Well you certainly see that in Honolulu. They are so Japanese oriented that all of the Resort Managers are either of Japanese decent and/or speak Japanese fluently. We love it including playing bilingual bingo on Wednesdays at 4:00 PM in the owners lounge in the Grand Waikikian.
     
  7. Saskalta

    Saskalta TUG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Alberta
    We have numerous timeshare weeks with Hawaiian Sun Holidays. We bought them on the resale market and paid a reasonable price. Our maintenance fees are quite reasonable for Waikiki and are well below $600/week for a 1 bedroom. Not the fanciest property, but very very decent and a great value. If we didn't own our timeshare weeks, instead of going every year, we might only go every five years... As the cost to rent a similar room during the peak season is double or triple what our timeshare maintenance fee is.. We are very happy with the current arrangement.. AND if we do decide to use RCI, it is a very good trader.. gets us almost 2 weeks in most RCI North American trade locations!! Couldn't be more pleased!
     
    mpumilia and Panina like this.
  8. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Resorts Owned:
    some
    There was a strong Japanese presence on Kauai 20 years ago, golf being a big reason.
     
  9. silentg

    silentg TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    4,140
    Likes Received:
    1,402
    Trophy Points:
    398
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    Orange Lake, Fitzpatrick's Castle Holiday Homes, The Pines At Aspen East, Oyster Bay
    I put a sandwich emoji but it didn’t copy
     
  10. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Resorts Owned:
    some
    Using ARDA's always-accurate-and-never-biased figures :ponder:, I wonder what would happen if all of the 15% of dissatisfied timeshare owners were suddenly let go?

    Would timeshare resorts collapse, or would they thrive, having eliminated all that bad debt expense, be able to lower fees for the happy owners, and remove the angst from the industry?

    Only the shadow knows.
     
  11. buzglyd

    buzglyd TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    461
    Trophy Points:
    194
    Location:
    Carlsbad
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC Lagoon Tower
    HGVC Carlsbad Seapointe
    Gaslamp Plaza Suites
    Carlsbad Inn
    SVV Bella
    Well they've got 4 in South Carolina now and that market is heavily seasonal.
     
  12. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,576
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    293
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC South Beach, HGVC Las Vegas, HGVC Las Vegas on the Strip, HGVC Sea World, Misner Place
    I know. That is one which you will need to ask HGVC about. I have never been nor do I intend on go to South Carolina.
     
  13. Panina

    Panina TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    4,142
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Location:
    USA
    Resorts Owned:
    Hgvc Eagles Nest, Hgvc Surf Club, Hgvc Indian River, Hgvc Anderson, Sunrise Bay & Club, Chetola, Gulf Tides, Jade Tree Cove, Banyan Resort, Blue Ridge Village
    Very heavily school season but busy other times too. Good Weather has a long season, Hilton Head a little warmer then Myrtle Beach. April and October are my favorite times in Myrtle Beach. It can also be warm in March and November depending on the weather flow. Many northeners actually spend the winter in this region as winters are very mild. Occasionally a very cold spell or snow/ice but gone in a few days.
     
    Sugarcubesea likes this.
  14. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,722
    Likes Received:
    1,437
    Trophy Points:
    449
    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    MFs continue to increase every year; we hit a recession; travel slows; rental rates get cut to where they are substantially less than MFs. Maybe this never happens but if it does the value of all TSs plummet including major brands, both points and Weeks...

    George
     
  15. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Resorts Owned:
    some
    I had to look to see if I said that.

    :D
     
  16. PigsDad

    PigsDad TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC Elite: SeaWorld, Surf Club, Charter Club, Valdoro
    Hmmm. As I recall, that happened in '01-'02 and '07-'08, and we are still here and timeshare sales are increasing every year. What happened?

    Kurt
     
    klpca likes this.
  17. jme

    jme TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    749
    Trophy Points:
    348
    Location:
    Southeast,TUG since '98
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriotts:
    Grande Ocean x 6
    Barony x 2
    OceanWatch x 1
    Manor Club x 1
    .
    Waterside by Spin x 2
    Sheraton Bdwy Plnt x 2
    ChurchStInnCharleston2
    People still love to "get away".
    Also, they may not be making as much as they would like, but they still love to dine out.
    Seems to be a recession-proof business.

    Travel? ditto.
    Whatever the circumstances, people take to the road.


    And......do you know of a city ANYWHERE where the restaurant business ISN'T thriving? I don't.
    Even in my home town in Georgia you have to make reservations early and expect waits at those (good) places
    where they don't take reservations.

    And take Hilton Head, for example, or Williamsburg, or Boston, or Orlando-----restaurants are killing it!!!!
     
    PigsDad likes this.
  18. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,722
    Likes Received:
    1,437
    Trophy Points:
    449
    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    You all could be right. All I know is that I bought Weeks at 4 different Marriott Resorts starting in the Mid 80s. Almost immediatey they started changing the rules to my detriment. Within 5 years or so it became apparent to me that what I owned was going to decline in value so I sold, at a small profit no less. Today I would be lucky to get back 1/3 of my original purchase prices. I have no idea what the transition from Weeks to Points did to the value of those holding onto their Weeks. Maybe they benefited, maybe they got hurt. You all know better than me. But I continue to believe that the profit motive of the Marriotts, Hiltons, Wyndhams, etc. will result in continuing changes in their product to their benefit and to the detriment of their owners. Hope I am wrong, but this is what I believe...

    George
     
    Panina likes this.
  19. Panina

    Panina TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    4,142
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Location:
    USA
    Resorts Owned:
    Hgvc Eagles Nest, Hgvc Surf Club, Hgvc Indian River, Hgvc Anderson, Sunrise Bay & Club, Chetola, Gulf Tides, Jade Tree Cove, Banyan Resort, Blue Ridge Village
    You point is valid. Many of the systems made changes that were not beneficial to owners. These changes were ways to sell something else and were profit driven.
     
  20. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Resorts Owned:
    some
    "Cash Cows" comes to mind.
     
  21. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Messages:
    27,229
    Likes Received:
    2,299
    Trophy Points:
    699
    Location:
    NE Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott's Grande Vista
    Marriott's Harbour Lake
    SVV - Bella
    SVV - Key West
    Given how at the height of the financial crisis the default rate on mortgages was only a little over 10%, if 15% of timeshare owners defaulted it wouldn't be pretty. If they just were let go, who would pay their MFs? That would become bad debt or everyone else's fees would go up, not be lowered.
     
  22. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,576
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    293
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC South Beach, HGVC Las Vegas, HGVC Las Vegas on the Strip, HGVC Sea World, Misner Place
    What is warm is a matter of opinion. We love the weather on Long Island from June - September, even though this June has been a little too cold. The rest of the year it is too cold for us to enjoy. We like daytimes in the 70's or above and nights no lower than 60. Honolulu is our place, not South Carolina.
     
  23. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Resorts Owned:
    some
    But, we don't know that.

    We don't know that if all the angst and litigation and bad debt expense ended, and all that was left was happy, happy, happy owners, fees would go up.

    What we do know is that if the defaulters were no longer defaulting, there would be no bad dept expense, or very little.

    But, since you mentioned the mortgage foreclosure debacle, did everything go to heck in a handbasket? Did those paying their mortgages have to start paying extra fees? Sure, there was a painful period, but did the defaulters get taken care of, and did things return pretty much to normal, over time?

    And what caused the mortgage foreclosure debacle? Predatory lending practices putting people in houses above their means, and a decline in the value of the entire housing market when it hit critical mass.

    Artificial house prices and owners who should not be.

    Not entirely unlike the collapse of the timeshare retail market when the number wanting to escape the timeshare trap hit critical mass.

    So, maybe there needs to be purging, a sanitizing of the industry, and get it over with.

    Like housing, is there not a lower, real value in timeshare, where more people would find it attractive, just as the thousands of foreclosed houses have found new owners at lower values? At foreclosure ground zero, where there were once hundreds of foreclosures, with new ones every day, it's hard to find one now, and the values are much higher now.

    Once the housing purge happened, and things settled back into real values, those values started increasing again, hopefully in a more sane manner. The house we bought for $45,000 in 2011, and sold for $129,000 in 2015, is for sale now for $220,000. Timeshare owners would be jumping for joy if something like that happened to timeshares, and there was virtually no defaults.

    I am familiar with many older resorts where something close to that has happened, where they take back defaulting weeks and make them productive, and where there is real market value to timeshare weeks, much lower than developer values, but real, getting in and getting out.

    Sometimes older and lesser is better.

    Dollars and sense aside, it's just sad that an industry has to rely on massive litigation of their customers as SOP.

    Wow! I did not intend to go here when I started this post, but maybe a timeshare foreclosure crisis is what is needed . . . or, less painful, just letting the bad debt owners go.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  24. Big Matt

    Big Matt TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,685
    Likes Received:
    249
    Trophy Points:
    299
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    I could see some of the smaller independent timeshares just convert to condos, selling the units outright and establishing a subsequent condo association. You could even just flip them into apartments and work with municipalities to get affordable housing designations for some/all of the units. Most are going to be compliant already.
     
    klpca likes this.
  25. chapjim

    chapjim TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    874
    Trophy Points:
    249
    Location:
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Resorts Owned:
    Wyndham PresRes, Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (4), some others.
    Is there a reason? I think a lot of people here would say you might be missing something. SC has some wonderful areas and is a lot closer and cheaper to get to than Hawaii.
     

Share This Page