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Downside of hh or Vero ownership?

Discussion in 'Disney Vacation Club - DVC' started by Jason245, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. Jason245

    Jason245 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    In looking at the resale prices, more or less those two locations are discounted on buy in price to account for higher mf.

    That being said, is there any downside (other than reservation window limitations in orlando)? E.g. is it really that hard to make internal exchanges to non home resort?

    I am trying to understand the real challenges..does anyone have personal experience?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
  2. ljmiii

    ljmiii TUG Member

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    In a word, "Yes". At 7 months availability at DVC's Orlando resorts other than SSR and OKW is very hit or miss and if you are looking to stay at truly peak times (e.g. Christmas or Marathon weekend) even SSR and OKW may be fully booked at 7 months.

    If you know you want to stay at non-peak DVC times such as spring (not counting President's Week and the weeks before and after Easter) then it doesn't matter where you buy. Or if you will be happy with 2-4 day stays somewhere, anywhere. But other than that, you should buy where you want to stay.

    Oh...and as for personal experience, when travelling to fit the school schedule - only able to go President's Week, Easter Week, Summer, or Christmas Vacation - our luck in getting into BLT was about 33%. So we bought at BLT to complement our BCV points.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  3. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    Both will be more expensive long term than SSR. You give up the 11 month window. Both are fine properties but IMO, buying strictly for WDW would be a bad idea. Both also present additional risk both internal to the system (might be sold off at some point) and due to weather. The ONLY way I'd consider either would be if I would use them a portion of the time during difficult to book times or possible for VB, if you could find a subsidized contract at a competitive price.
     
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  4. littlestar

    littlestar TUG Member

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    I heard the closing is more expensive for Hilton Head. I would only buy Vero or Hilton Head if I wanted some stays during peak booking times for those resorts. The risk of being shut out of Walt Disney World during certain seasons would not be worth it to me. And there is also the risk of weather related special assessments for beach properties and their maintenance fees run higher than SSR. Plus, Disney Vero and Hilton Head have the 2042 end date.
     
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  5. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    SC requires a lawyer involved licensed in the state. I believe LT Transfers does close there and if they're more expensive for SC, I haven't seen it listed that SC is more expensive with them.
     
  6. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Plus, your resale vaue will always be lower at the NON-WDW resorts ... WAY less interest in owning those for me.

    And AS DEMAND with regards to future need for the earily booking windows for the Orlando area resorts ... less interest to book for just a Florida beach week in any vacation system.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  7. Jason245

    Jason245 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I am confused about more expensive long term. . By my rough math they sell for about 30 bucks less a point and mf is about 1 to 1.50 more a point. With a little less than 25 years left the mf difference equals the price difference on initial buy in.

    Do you have personal experience in not being able to get dvc orlando properties at 7 month mark? E.g. if you were to look into reservation system today is there zero 3 or 4 day weekend availability at orlando except for okw and ssr or are all booked?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
  8. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    IF you compare VB to SSR, BLT & AKV through 2041, 100 pts will cost you total around $38K total at VB, 31K at SSR, $35K at BLT and $35K at AKV. That assumes current list prices and current dues with a 3.5% inflation on the dues. It doesn't account for investing the difference in purchase price for any of the options. It also doesn't account for some of the savings to be had for view types the might be cheaper but unavailable after the 11 month window. If you buy less points and use a cheaper option you couldn't get otherwise for BLT, VGF, BWV or AKV (value only), that does make a big difference but few people do that enough to make up the difference even for AKV value. Comparing AKV used mostly for value to SSR staying at AKV in standard you have to stay more than 2/3 of the time in value to break even or come out ahead buying AKV.

    As for the 7 month window, I have lots of experience there. I happen to believe one can be quite successful at the 7 month window as long as they're realistic. One will not have much options for VGC or VGF and likely won't be able to get the cheaper or specialty views at BLT, AKV (value or concierge), BWV (standard) but likely can get AKV and SSR standard at time. Studios are also a challenge so one will often be forced to a 1 BR. Certainly buying anything expecting to get certain options at 7 month routinely is not a workable plan. To be satisfied at the 7 month window one has to be OK staying at AKV, SSR or OKW routinely and may have to skip over the studios in favor of 1 BR often times as well. One will be able to get other things at times but it will likely be hit or miss. One also has to be comfortable and proficient at using the wait list which can be limiting at best. Season also matters, some times are busier than others and it often doesn't follow the overall demand for WDW. For example, early Dec is likely the most difficult time to reserve overall but relatively slow for Disney in general.

    Currently at 7 months out starting 22 Jan for 4 nights (to cover a long weekend) there is fairly routinely availability other than studios. For studios it's only AKV, SSR, OKW & BLT (Lake view). And that's one of the slowest times. Is it workable, IMO it is if you're truly flexible, plan at 7 months out exactly and use the wait list but there's just no reason to do it if WDW is the goal. It's more costly long term, has more risk, and you give up an 11 month option at WDW. But if one wants to use points routinely at HHI or VB AND at times for WDW, I think it can be very workable just more expensive.
     
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  9. rhonda

    rhonda TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Even those of us who own DVC at a WDW resort have a good measure of personal experience booking non-home-resort stays. I own SSR but am competing with any/all other owners at 7-months for any reservation other than SSR/Treehouses. Expect Studios at WDW/DL to be nearly impossible but 1BR units to be fairly easy. If you plan on booking 1BR units across WDW properties and don't mind using the waitlist, piecing reservations together a day at time and, perhaps, having to move across resorts during your visit (a 'split stay' across resorts) ... then you should be ok. Just don't expect success every time.
     
  10. TravelTime

    TravelTime TUG Member

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    DVC (AK, VGF, VGC, Poly, Aulani), WKOVRN, Four Seasons, MVC Trust Points, MVC Marbella and Ko Olina (enrolled weeks)
    I own at AK, VGF and Poly. I had a trip booked at these resorts for November but we decided we wanted to go sooner. So a few weeks ago, I canceled November and was able to book 8 consecutive nights at AK 1 br SV, Boardwalk 1 br Pool/Garden View and Poly studio standard view. I was thrilled to be able to rebook and get great resort options at 2 months in. I could have gotten VGF but I thought the point cost for summer was too high so we will stay at that resort during a lower season next year.

    I specifically wanted to stay at 3 resorts to experience MK, Epcot and AK parks. Since DVC moves luggage between resorts, I am thinking the split reservation will be fun and not too stressful for us, esp since we pack light. Boardwalk and I think AK had many consecutive days for the summer available. The studios are hard to get but I was flexible and wanted 1 bedrooms for me and my DH because we like a little extra space. So based on my experience, I suspect you might be able to use HH and Vero points to book at the WDW resorts. Someone told me that if you book at the last minute like I did (between 30-60 days in), it can be easier than at 7 months because lots of people cancel their plans around this time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  11. TravelTime

    TravelTime TUG Member

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    Let me just add, I agree with buy where you want to stay. That is why I own the WDW resorts I chose. It did take me many hours to piece together my 8 night stay in the order I wanted in the unit types I wanted at the 2 month mark. I like having the 11 month booking window at my home resorts but being able to re-book as needed.
     
  12. littlestar

    littlestar TUG Member

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    Keep in mind that studios book the fastest. They are a hot commodity for the point rental businesses advertised as a money saver vs booking a deluxe resort room directly through Disney. So studios can be gone at 7 months. And they are even more popular now because of the parking charges Disney started in the spring.

    Next most popular are 2 bedrooms. And dead last are the one bedrooms so you will have better luck booking one bedrooms inside the 7 month window. Honestly, I am surprised that DVC has not adjusted the point charts by now to raise the studio costs and lower the 1 bedrooms. Because even SSR studios are gone for certain times of the year at 7 months.

    There is a guy over on the disboards who keeps track of Walt Disney World DVC 7 month availability.
     
  13. Jason245

    Jason245 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    So to piece together what you are telling me.. studios are hardest (I might be crazy.. but I don't want em).. 1 br are easiest (my preference ).. and 2br are 2nd easiest(2nd preferences ).

    Also on resale pricing. Okw is selling for around 90 a point while Vero is selling at 60..

    As an fyi. I live 3 hours from orlando. . So I am very flexible. .with higher focus on weekends (check in Friday night and leave Sunday or Monday )


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
  14. chriskre

    chriskre TUG Member

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    Enchanted Isle resort.
    I live in FL too and since you are flexible you may want to consider
    buying the Weekday select pass and staying Monday to Fridays as
    points are cheaper during the week than on the weekends.
    That way you will get way more trips out of your ownership and
    it will be way less crowded in the parks and resorts too.

    I own at SSR and Poly.
    I have no trouble using my SSR points to stay at Vero pretty much
    any time I want. Not sure of the reverse but I would not buy in
    Vero personally as it's very easy to book unless you need a cottage.
    I like the oceanfront hotel rooms over the TS side so that's where
    I usually stay. Not a problem getting a room in the summer when
    I want to go.

    This year I gave my points to a points broker to rent and I was shocked
    at what great ressies he was able to get with 2-4 months lead time.
    He booked Poly, BLT, VGF, BW and was all studios. I don't know how
    they do it but nice primo ressies with my SSR points so if you stalk the
    online system you probably could too along with using the waitlist option.
    That's a nice perk having the waitlist option.
     
  15. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    It's still more expensive and more risk with a 2042 expiration that you could avoid. Poor plan if WDW alone is the goal.
     
  16. icydog

    icydog TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    I happen to LOVE Disney's Vero Beach Resort. I used to own there but sold it for a loss, the only loss I ever took with a DVC resale, because the MFs were so much higher than my OKW points at the time.

    Ironically there are no listings for VB on Redweek. I love the Beach Cottages and I love the hotel Oceanfront rooms. And If you book a two bedroom lockoff you have a good chance of a great ocean view.

    I would really like to reserve a May Beach Cottage-- maybe I will put in a waitlist for it. May is a great time at VB since the weather is nice, the points are significantly less than in season, and there are far fewer crowds.

    Did you know that Disney's Vero Beach Resort's points are based on the, now long gone, Dodger Spring Training Schedule? Talk about short sightedness on Disney's part because now they are stuck with it.

    As for buying a contract there at Vero, and you want to stay at Walt Disney World--- I always go back to the old axiom that has become a DVC mantra---Buy where you want to stay! If you plan on going to Walt Disney World all the time do not buy VB.

    That's not to say you have to buy SSR either. Buy at whichever resort you like the best. And if you haven't stayed in the Disney Vacation Club resorts on property consider renting from an owner to get a feel for it. There are several of my past guests right here on the TUG forums who have purchased DVC interests right after renting my DVC points for their incredible Disney Vacations.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  17. Commish_DVC

    Commish_DVC TUG Member

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    I have owned a 495 VB Contract since 2013 - I have booked 2BR stays at BLT, BCV & BWV Multiple times - last week was able to get a friend a 5 night studio at BCV for end of Feb 2019. I get a special type of joy with each WDW reservation used with my VB points as I do not subscribe to the "Buy where you want to stay Mantra" but rather the "More points the better" strategy
    In your situation, BWV 1 BR are relatively easy to get (exclude Food/Wine period).

    I think what gets lost in this discussion is the excitement at the 7 month window (it can be fun!), vs the comfort of 11 month window, the home resort "premium" you pay is quite significant to remove the uncertainty,

    Good Luck
     
  18. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    I agree with the 7 month window elation and benefit but one needs to be OK with the risks. The problem with owning VB for WDW is it's more expensive than owning the cheaper WDW options and you give up at least having an 11 month reservation.
     
  19. Commish_DVC

    Commish_DVC TUG Member

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    Agreed, but given OP is more of a 1BR renter there is much more opportunity (and less risk) than a studio renter. There is no real "value" resale given the current market - I bought BRV in 2018 and similar resales are bid up $20 from my purchase date. VB is the value play - and can be tempting, especially non stripped sub $60.
     
  20. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    It totally depends on the specific numbers of course but given dues are the largest single cost over time, there is no WDW 11 month window, VB is a 2042 expiration with essentially no chance of extension and then there's the risk of weather events; it would need to save a LOT to be a good choice simply for WDW and that essentially means a subsidized contract or an uncharacteristic price. You need VB to be free up front to break even compared to SSR at $100 per point when you assume dues at 3.5% inflation. Just the dues alone for VB until 2042 will be as much as SSR at $100 pp plus the dues there. And you've still got the 7 month limitation and it still both expires in 2042 and it is worth less all along the way. It's a great resort so if one wants to use points there AND for WDW, different answer. And if one can find a subsidized contract the numbers are different.
     
  21. Commish_DVC

    Commish_DVC TUG Member

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    What the above may overlook is that given the same level of Investment, assume $20,000, that would translate into a 333 VB Contract @$60 vs 200 points SSR @$100, 133 or 66% more points til 2042. The extra 133 points can be used for trips but if rented at $16 (a layup) would reduce the net effective MF below SSR. This in my view, is a perspective that should be considered when evaluating the value of VB resale, especially a larger contract Point Cow.

    Thank You

    (own BRV, OKW, VB,)
     
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  22. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    If you assume investing the difference in true equity investments it reduces the difference but doesn't change the answer. Over the life of the VB contract VB will cost more than BLT, SSR & AKV and wild be expired. All of those others will have a remaining life AND commitment. If you buy the extra 133 points you're just compounding the additional dues, the actual answer doesn't change at any points level a single amount on a per point basis. If you buy those extra 133 points you end up cheaper with the 3 I calculated. Taking current dues on 100 VB points will cost you $31266 through the 2041 assuming 3.5% inflations. SSR will be $21487, BLT $21707, & AKV 24787 and it translates to any points size mathematically. That's just the dues. I used a $30 pp spread for SSR & AKV and a $65 spread for BLT, all inclusive were cheaper than VB and had the WDW advantages I mentioned above. SSR is the same as just the dues at VB, the others are more but less total, I can give you those numbers if you want. I did not formally calculate the invest the difference valuation for several reasons including simplicity, most wouldn't do it anyway and the underling asset would still worth the proportionate difference. Thus to make the buy VB ONLY to use at WDW a viable option one has to either get VB for free just to break even compared to SSR, the dues have to change over the current dues (? subsidized contract at VB), inflation has to be considerably less than 3.5% or the price of SSR has to go up dramatically compared to VB by around $100 per point difference ($70 more than the numbers I used).
     
  23. littlestar

    littlestar TUG Member

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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  24. Jason245

    Jason245 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    So sounds like the math works out for about 10 years or so.. at that point it flips..

    All I can say is that 10 years is a long time. . And a lot can happen in that time.. all that being said in less than 2 weeks we are going to be in the longest bull market in history and when that flips opportunities might present themselves in other ways.

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  25. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    Certainly, but given the risks, if there is a change over 10 years it's almost certainly to be against VB, possibly weather related though it's small size and location have other risks besides hurricanes. VB also BARELY dodged a special assessment a few years ago. The crossover actually happens after about 8 years with the assumptions I posted.
     

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