Diamond Resorts Purchasing ILX (2010)

[Klapkin]

I am an owner at Los Abrigados and was told Diamond would be buying them out of bankruptcy. I own a floating week but understand Diamond is points.
Anyone know anything?
Thanks
susan

 

[RedDogSD]

I know NOTHING about your home resort, but bankruptcy or not, you own a week and you have a deed to your week. They cannot take that away from you without your permission so no stress. They will come to you later and tell you about their points system and try to sell you on it. You should still be able to use your property the way you always have.

 

[tidefan]

I know NOTHING about your home resort, but bankruptcy or not, you own a week and you have a deed to your week. They cannot take that away from you without your permission so no stress. They will come to you later and tell you about their points system and try to sell you on it. You should still be able to use your property the way you always have.

Oh, and they will also double your maintenance fees if your experience is anything like ours...

 

[nightnurse613]

Of course, if ILX is in bankruptcy then maybe property improvements is the last thing they were paying attention to so increased MF wouldn't be that unusual. Of course, I agree, DRI does have a reputation for increasing fees in order to maintain their fifteen percent profit requirements.

 

[csalter2]

DRI will raise maintenance fees, but...

DRI will come in and raise maintenace fees, but my experience has been that they also will eventually upgrading your resort. I was an Epic owner and then a Epic was sold to Sunterra because of bankruptcy and then Sunterra went bankrupt and the DRI took over. The properties had really been in bad shape over time due to the financial troubles of those organizations. DRI did increase the maintenance fees and for a couple of years all of the owners were having a cow. However, DRI has slowly but surely upgrading the resorts. I have been to quite a few and have noticed definite upgrades and they continue to improve on them and provide more services.

So you will have the good and the bad. I will tell you that DRI does give you a home resort advantage too so if you want to stay in Los Abrigados every year, you will probably be able to do so, but they will try to get you to buy points. I have them and it's not too bad at all. I love the flexibility.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

Consider yourself very lucky. You have a nice resort and will be able to continue to use it. If DRI didn't buy it you would have likely ended up with no resort and no money for your trouble. I own DRI points and am very happy with how they have been upgrading resorts and the way the point system works.

 

[dougp26364]

DRI will most likely offer you the option of joining the new points program. They'll also bring your resort up to DRI standards if it's not already there. Sunterra owners saw high MF increases which reflected the quality/maintenance of their resorts. I have nothing against the old Sunterra but, it was a less expensive resort chain that used lower quality goods/services at their resorts. We had written them off as a chain to exchange into based on our experience. If there is a lot of work that needs to be done, MF's will rise relatively quickly, owners will complain but, the resort will start to look like one of the top timeshare resorts rather than just another resort.

In our case, we were offererd to with join their points program for $2,995 or, buy trust based points and convert our exisiting deeds into one of the land trusts. We elected to keep our deeds and just join the points overlay program. We joined because we received enough points to accomplish the same trades we always had, the availability of internal exhanges and short stay internal exchanges and still have points left over for either more exchanges or for use with some of the other goods and services DRI offers for points (cruise exchanges, rental cars, AA flight certificates, FF miles, MF/club dues payments et....). We've found their points program works very well for us.

 

[tidefan]

DRI will most likely offer you the option of joining the new points program. They'll also bring your resort up to DRI standards if it's not already there. Sunterra owners saw high MF increases which reflected the quality/maintenance of their resorts. I have nothing against the old Sunterra but, it was a less expensive resort chain that used lower quality goods/services at their resorts. We had written them off as a chain to exchange into based on our experience. If there is a lot of work that needs to be done, MF's will rise relatively quickly, owners will complain but, the resort will start to look like one of the top timeshare resorts rather than just another resort.

In our case, we were offererd to with join their points program for $2,995 or, buy trust based points and convert our exisiting deeds into one of the land trusts. We elected to keep our deeds and just join the points overlay program. We joined because we received enough points to accomplish the same trades we always had, the availability of internal exhanges and short stay internal exchanges and still have points left over for either more exchanges or for use with some of the other goods and services DRI offers for points (cruise exchanges, rental cars, AA flight certificates, FF miles, MF/club dues payments et....). We've found their points program works very well for us.

Gee, guess I'm just crazy then since all of our upgrades were completed 3 years ago. Oh yeah, before DRI took over from Sunterra. We already had an upgraded resort and still got tacked on with the high MFs. Most Royal Palm owners that we have talked to all seem to think that it is a ploy for DRI to force weeks owners out to acquire points for "the Club" as Royal Palm was sold out prior to DRI acquisition (many with whole or quarter shares) so they didn't have a lot of inventory there to trade into "the Club".

We have heard the stories of a few RPBC owners who converted to points, only to not be able to book back at the resort during weeks that they either wanted (which were usually high demand) or back to their normal week due to lack of availability. But Sunterra actually created that problem (and DRI continued it) by giving RPBC so little value in its points system compared to other resorts, that it made a whole lot of sense not to join "the Club" as you couldn't really go anywhere else (comparably) AND you had to fork out at least $3,000 for this privilege. No thanks.

I can see where "the Club" worked out for others, especially to those who have high point value resorts, but Sunterra/DRI sure has given RPBC owners the shaft. That's OK though, at least for us, because we just continue to use our fixed week year after year, so their way to get us out is to increase our MFs.

The much easier way to get weeks into "the Club" from RPBC owners is to give them comparable points, then, some of them may have been swayed to join the system.

Just my opinion...

 

[traildoc]

So what I can tell from researching Diamond Resort sales on Ebay is that you can purchase various point options 4,000, 6,500, 8,000 for under $500 including all transfer fees. It looks like 8,000 points cost about $1,100 per year. For the 8,000 points you can go to many of the One Bedroom Diamond Resort locations during HIGH season.

I was paying $630 per year to stay at Los Abrigados in a one bedroom anytime of the year as long as I reserved early in the year. Now it looks like I will need to spend around $1,000 a year to stay in a one bedroom Los Abrigados unit in the future. Not sure how much better the unit will be when Diamond takes over.

Since I can purchase more Diamond points for less than $500 on Ebay I am not sure why I would buy into the $2,500 Diamond upgrade.

 

[gravityrules]

Doesn't ILX already have a 'Premier Vacation Club' which sells memberships rather than deeded property ownership? Expect DRI to fold PVC into their 'trust'; this will become yet another revenue source for DRI.
If you are a deeded owner expect higher MFs and lessening owner input/control (if you had any with ILX).
I think this outcome is a 'win' for ILX creditors and for DRI who gets an entire new resort system to exploit. It's the owners who will likely get the priviledge of paying for DRI's acquisition.
BTW, we were at Bell Rock last summer in a 2BR and it appeared to be a well maintained resort.

 

[JRS]

Csalter - comment

"The properties had really been in bad shape over time due to the financial troubles of those organizations."

Kind of a generalization ?? I would say so. I owned at Flamingo in St Maarten - and this resort along with Royal Palm and I can tell you these resorts were not in "Bad Shape". I have since sold out because I was a week owner and DRI in effect raised fees for those owners to in effect force them out IMO. I will "never" become a member of DRI because of this ..... Seems that they are attempting to charge fees on par with Marriott - without the quality that goes along with it ....

 

[tidefan]

Agreed. DRI has really been a bad deal for owners of their SXM properties. I know that some of the homeowners had started a movement to get them removed as the property managers, but I am not sure where this is right now...

 

[fnewman]

Oh, and they will also double your maintenance fees if your experience is anything like ours...

Could artificially low maintenance fees be responsible for the company's bankrupcy? I don't know of any business that can survive if their income does not exceed their cost of doing business.

 

[cangarrett1]

ILX -- Now DRI MF's for 2011

I just checked the Concord Servicing Corporation website and the maintenance fee for our 1 bedroom Premier Vacation Club Annual Floating went from $635.00 to $921.65. I seriously am hoping this is an error.

 

[Klapkin]

New Point System

Did anyone else get their Maintenance fee bill- Do you understand how this is going to work? How many points?
I am totally confused!
Thanks

 

[mblosser]

Talk Back to Diamond

I just got my 2 bills. I own PVC Silver (1BR) and PVC Gold (2BR). My fee break-out is as follows:

Silver: In 2010 under ILX, was $635. In 2011 under Diamond, will be $922 (includes a $134 club fee, which you can opt-out of by 12/2011).

Gold: In 2011 under ILX, was $810. In 2011 under Diamond, will be $1139 (same deal on club fee and opt-out).

The MF increases are 45% and 41%, respectively. And BTW, the bill includes that wonderful ARDA-PAC $5 fee (which they so graciously allow us to opt-out of). I hate it when resort management tries to slip that by us. Opt-in, OK, but opt-out, that should be illegal.

IMO, ILX's fees were already high for what we were getting. 40%+ increases are insane, to the point of criminality.

My fee statements also have no data on the quantities of DRI points into which our Silver and Gold memberships convert. But I suspect it will be enough for a high season 1BR and a high season 2BR, respectively.

I'm not the least bit impressed with DRI's "Premiere Club Connection" exchange program, which the $134 club fee gets us. It includes 27 additional resorts. Only 12 of them are domestic. IMO, those 12 range from average to above average, but none of them are what I'd consider top-notch.

To voice your opinion on your new masters, go here:

http://www.keepingyouinthepicture.com/ and click on "Contact Us". They are having an informational meeting December 14 in the Phoenix area, and they want questions submitted ahead of time (Hey! Board of Directors--afraid we might bring our pitchforks and torches? ).

I already sent in my questions, including my personal favorite: "Are you people insane?" :annoyed:

I also asked why the bankruptcy court allowed DRI, which purchased ILX assets for very little $$$, to shunt debts over onto us. Those debts should have been extinguished by the court and/or assumed by DRI as a trade-off for the bargain sale. I smell class action lawsuit here.

Anyway, we'll see if anything good comes of this. My plan is to hang in for a year, and if I don't like what I see, not pay any more maintenance fees and attempt to deed back my points to DRI.

IMO, this looks like a classic example of annual fees far exceeding the value of the vacation week, and every logical consumer's best option may be to walk away (akin to what you logically should do with an underwater mortgage). What's the point of paying as much as double the condo's market rental value (I know, there are obligations etc. that have been well-discussed elsewhere on TUG; I'm not trying to rekindle that hot button issue here).

There's a reason any amount of DRI points can be "purchased" for $1 on eBay. Of course, ILX's points were also worthless, but that just supports my point that there is no value left in these timeshares. DRI is just pushing them further underwater, to the owners' detriment and DRI's corporate enrichment.

It should be illegal.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

Maybe DRI trust points can be sold, I am not sure. Club points cannot be sold. I don't know what is being sold on Ebay as "DRI points".

 

[REDHOT]

Same Story

I too am an owner with the same problem 635 up to 921. I made many phone calls today and found that with our property reports and signed contract of week ownership. We cannot be forced into a point system.
I called II and asked the value of points and they where unable to answer due to that fact that they do not deal in points. Diamond has their own section within II.
I agree this now not an affordable way to vacation. I will be attending the meeting also and also submitted my questions and concerns about this hostage situation. What happens if I do not want this anymore and have my unit paid in full? Can they ruin my credit over maint fees? This is not what we all signed up for. Why do we get the burden of those that do not pay or the staff that does not make sales?

Is everyone going Tues.?

 

[REDHOT]

Attorney

This group represented someone against ILX in 2003. They are in Mesa, Az. They may be of some help to us.

James E Ledbetter
(928)649-8777

 

[csalter2]

Points Buy Back with DRI

You can return your points back to DRI, but you must have paid all maintenance fees and they must be free and clear of any loans. DRI usually charges you around $250 to take them back.

Silver membership has a minimum of 15,000 points, Gold membership has a minimum of 30,000 points. In addition, there are other discounts and perks on these levels of membership.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

I too am an owner with the same problem 635 up to 921. I made many phone calls today and found that with our property reports and signed contract of week ownership. We cannot be forced into a point system.
I called II and asked the value of points and they where unable to answer due to that fact that they do not deal in points. Diamond has their own section within II.
I agree this now not an affordable way to vacation. I will be attending the meeting also and also submitted my questions and concerns about this hostage situation. What happens if I do not want this anymore and have my unit paid in full? Can they ruin my credit over maint fees? This is not what we all signed up for. Why do we get the burden of those that do not pay or the staff that does not make sales?

Is everyone going Tues.?

You can use your diamond points to make exchanges on II at a very good value in most cases. As far as I know, most, if not all, of the II inventory is open for points exchange. My wife and I made great exchanges using Diamond points on II. You basically cannot get an answer to the question "what is the value of points". You need to see the number of points needed to exchange for units. You can get great in season units in desirable resorts for points on II for 7000 or less points. Of course, you must plan and put your request in sufficiently ahead of time for the most popular resorts.

I understand the shock of a huge increase in MF - particularly if you plan on going to the same resort each year. It may not be worthwhile if that is what someone plans to do. IMO people interested in making exchanges to different places will find great flexibility and choice with Diamond at a cost/benefit ratio that works. At least that is my experience.

 

[dougp26364]

DRI points values for I.I. exchanges

Points values are based on Interval's Trade Demand Index (TDI) and resort quality. for the sake of saving space I'll assume Premium quality (pretty standard for exchange purposes) and high range TDI of 115-135. The set covers most typical exchange situations. Lower demand requires fewer points. Peak demand requires more ponits.

Studio - 4,000
1 bedroom - 5,500
2 bedroom - 7,500
3 bedroom - 8,750
4 bedroom - 10,000

These are the points requirements for exchanges through I.I. for premium quality resorts during high demand time. Please not that I.I. exchange fee's are charged when exchanging through Interval International.

I have no idea what DRI is offering ILX owners in points for their weeks. You'd have to contact DRI to get those figures. For what it's worth, our 2 bedroom units at Polo Towers have MF's over $1,000. This seems pretty typical to me for DRI managed resorts. DRI does have a certain quality standard they seem to be using across the board at resorts managed by them. It has taken DRI a couple of years to get some of the older Sunterra resorts up to DRI standards and most Sunterra owners screamed at the MF increases. Now, a few years down the road, I've seen several posts that indicate they're happier now that they've exprerienced the quality upgrades.

 

[REDHOT]

Quality

I hear what you are saying about the value of your MF's increases for better quality resorts. The ILX inventory of resorts is not a Marriott goup quality of properties. It is more a La Quita/Hampton Inn quality of resorts. I could see paying 1000 if the properties where nicer, but that is not the case. Take a look at the inventory and ask yourself if you would see value for 1000. Unfortunatly I do not. The only property of theirs that had some potential is the Los Abagatos.
I asked them what my MF's increase for my silver 1BR equated to in points, 6000 points. I see above that someone has said that to trade into most 1BR DR runs on average of 8000 points.
I was unable to see what a trade at II would look like due to that fact that some of our online information is all wrong and II cannot talk with me right now. My online info says that my fees are 1391 with 470 past due.
This is not true or correct.

 

[dougp26364]

I hear what you are saying about the value of your MF's increases for better quality resorts. The ILX inventory of resorts is not a Marriott goup quality of properties. It is more a La Quita/Hampton Inn quality of resorts. I could see paying 1000 if the properties where nicer, but that is not the case. Take a look at the inventory and ask yourself if you would see value for 1000. Unfortunatly I do not. The only property of theirs that had some potential is the Los Abagatos.
I asked them what my MF's increase for my silver 1BR equated to in points, 6000 points. I see above that someone has said that to trade into most 1BR DR runs on average of 8000 points.
I was unable to see what a trade at II would look like due to that fact that some of our online information is all wrong and II cannot talk with me right now. My online info says that my fees are 1391 with 470 past due.
This is not true or correct.

Much like the idea that, with a fire you get no heat until you put in some wood, with DRI the quality won't increase until there's funding for the upgrades. DRI is not a charitable organization. They'll charge the MF's up front, collect the funds and then pay for the necessary upgrades.

Many of the Sunterra owners have gone through the same sticker shock. Fee's went up considerably and the resorts needed work. Some work got done immeadiatly. Other things have taken a couple of years. I suspect it will be the same with ILX. Owners are going to scream about the existing quality in comparison to the new MF's. Give it a couple of years and my bet is the quality will match the MF's.

Still, no matter how it's explained, a nearly 50% increase in MF's for any one year is unheard of and, until now, unthinkable. The thing is, who do you blame? The bankrupt ILX, who didn't hold up their end of the bargain for their owners or, DRI, who has purchased them out of bankruptcy but demands a much higher level of quality and financial responsiblity? It doesn't matter who you blame, it still hurts and, it's likely to be more than a lot of owners can withstand. There's bound to be more than a little backlash over such a hike in fee's. DRI had better be prepared for owners to either walk or take action. With this sort of a fee increase in this economy, it wouldn't surprise me to see deliquency rates go through the roof. I wonder what the plan is if non-payment of fee's tops 25%?

This is also bound to scare owners of other resort groups that DRI might be looking to purchase. Right now, it appears that DRI is looking to grow through acquistion vs new builds. Bluegreen had been targted but, the economy and the difficulty financing for the purchase cancelled that plan. DRI has purchased Sunterra, ILX and A Tempus resort in Orlando out of bankruptcy. Who's next and how nervous might those owners be?

So I guess there's a lesson to be learned. Make certain your HOA/BOD is doing the right thing in maintaining the resort and keeping things on solid financial footing. Keeping MF's artificially low is only going to lead to trouble somewhere down the road. When a resort goes bankrupt, it doesn't mean it's disolved. It only means that it could be bought out and fee's could shoot higher.

 

[tidefan]

Many of the Sunterra owners have gone through the same sticker shock. Fee's went up considerably and the resorts needed work. Some work got done immeadiatly. Other things have taken a couple of years. I suspect it will be the same with ILX. Owners are going to scream about the existing quality in comparison to the new MF's. Give it a couple of years and my bet is the quality will match the MF's.

Or not. We are 3 years in to Diamond Management and all we have to show is a new elevator, which quite honestly doesn't work any better than the old one, oh, and new stainless steel toasters. Our resort, Royal Palm, was one of the Sunterra resorts hijacked by Diamond. The resort is recently renovated, but that was complete prior to Diamond's takeover.

What we have seen is MFs increase from around $800/year to almost $1400/year for a 2-Bdrm unit. Yes, we are approaching the point where one can rent for what the MFs are, and IMHO, that is not a good situation.

Sunterra (and later Diamond) tried for the first few years to push folks into "The Club", but they had a very tough time selling it b/c most folks (except the Dec-Feb weeks) don't receive enough points to go anywhere else (I think we were offered 7,000/year for our unit, plus having to pay $3000 for the privilege). Most owners, which have been fixed week for years have decided to keep their weeks instead of joining "The Club".

This year (this past Nov) we noticed that they aren't even doing sales pitches at the resort anymore. There was an undercurrent of speculation that Royal Palm and Flamingo may be sold off to someone else, or maybe, they just didn't feel like the sales volume supported the need for a sales staff, but at any rate, it did feel odd not to have the sales pitch at least somewhere around.

Now, I don't really mean to knock Diamond in the whole, as I think that for some resorts (that are assigned higher point values), "The Club" can work really well. However, I think that you will find that with a number of resorts without a lot of active sales, Diamond will deflate the point values to try to get you to purchase more points. I think this may have backfired a bit in St Maarten as a number of people that we talk to all think that it is much cheaper and works out as good if not better just to trade the week and take your chances in RCI...