TUG MEMBERS: Joining TUG does not automatically register you as a user of the TUG Bulletin Board. You must register yourself.


*ads are disabled when logged in as a member*
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 24 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $10,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $10Million dollars
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. TUG is trying out a new program that will trade you a TUG membership for a Timeshare resort review if you are an expired member, or even just a guest here on the forums!

    Read more here
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
    Dismiss Notice
  8. A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
    Dismiss Notice

Crucial change to HGVC - We must take action, stand together and be heard

Discussion in 'Hilton Grand Vacations Club / HGVC' started by USDave, Dec 25, 2014.

  1. USDave

    USDave Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Hi,

    As you may be aware. HGVC have announced a new variable price hike to the Open Season rates by 100% from 2014 to 2015 even after a considerable increase in 2014. The rates are allocated with a massive price bracket without any explanation or justication to allow anyone to understand in advance what the rate may be, after all I thought that is what HGVC had silver, gold and platinum for! So there was clarity for us all. This is a major change to the system. Please take a minute to read, understand and take action.

    I have added another post with a sample letter on this thread if you need a time saver.

    Whether you have never used the Open season, occasionally or a lot. It is crucial that we are not passive to this change to double the rates. We all expect from time to time that prices will increase we see that with our dues but to double the open season rates is unacceptable and disgraceful. It demonstrates a view that Hilton has of its customers and one that if we let ride on this occasion will soon creep into other areas, yearly dues, food, drinks.

    I read many posts voicing disappointment about the change so let's do something about it!

    I am sure like lots of us our jobs involve dealing with customers who on earth would think doubling prices from one year to the next was ok needs their head examining. They claim it is to be inline with other hotels in the area, I don't buy that even the Waldorf doesn't charge as much admittedly maybe with a smaller room, but the current system has also minimised empty rooms too for Hilton.

    I rang up HGVC to get an understanding of the new system and wanted to know how to understand the variances. For example in Gold season a 2 bed apartment could cost another between $135 and $270 but how did I know what this was based on? occupancy? Time of year? They couldn't give me send answer and the advisor told me they didn't know themselves but suggested I email in. If they don't know how are we supposed too!

    So not only is the increase insulting to us all but it is badly thought out without any real logic applied to how any why it is done. We now have no certainty of what the rates will be and that was the fundamental aspect of the system.

    CALL TO ACTION Please take 5 minutes to email input@hgvc.com voicing your disapproval in the change in the strongest possible terms. 5 voices may be brushed aside but 500 would be much harder to do and if possible post those comments to the Facebook page and Twitter account of HGVC. They have so far ignored many of the posts and hope it will go away. Let's make sure it doesn't.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
  2. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    103
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Keep up the e-mail

    I totally agree with this approach. I have posted a number of the e-mails that I have sent. I got the name of Barbara Rinks, BRinks@hgvc.com the Director of HGVC services. She seems to receptive to the notes that I have sent and passing the notes to upper management, the Vice President of Member Services to whom she reports. I think that we need to get to the bottom of the derivation of the Open Season availability particularly in Honolulu which is a very highly sought after location and the one that I believe they will be raising the Open Season rates the most. The post that HGVC sent out made it sound like the availability was from members depositing points for Partner Perks. That is certainly different than what I was under the assumption the derivation of the Open Season availability, Club Reservation availability that wasn't reserved by owner/members using their points.
     
  3. mtm65

    mtm65 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Fleetwood, Pa
    You may have more participation if an outline or form letter is provided. Many people will not take the time to compose a letter but will copy and paste a letter to HGVC. Two cents to help the cause :)
     
  4. TheCryptkeeper

    TheCryptkeeper TUG Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC at the Flamingo
    West 57th St. By Hilton Club
    Thanks, sent HGVC a quick note telling them how disappointed I was and how I could no longer recomend them to friends interested in purchasing timeshares.
     
  5. chriskre

    chriskre TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,461
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    283
    Location:
    South Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    DVC- SSR, Poly,
    Wyndham Las Cascadas
    HGVC Tuscany Village
    Bluegreen CMV UDI
    RCI pts at VVParkway
    Enchanted Isle resort.
    Post your dislike on their Facebook page too.
    I did and they did respond kindly but it doesn't change the fact that they are planning to go forward with the change in 3 months instead of immediately.

    In all honesty I own many different timeshares so if they remove this perk I'll just move onto one of my other ownerships or use the exchange companies.
    I go to Orlando every 2 to 3 months and was enjoying using the OS benefits but if they don't want to give me a deal anymore there are other systems that will.
    Sorry but HGVC isn't the only game in town. Maybe they don't care if I'm gone but they should as I was one of their biggest fans because of the OS benefits.
     
  6. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    103
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Open Season Rates will go up but…..

    I totally agree that Open Season Rates will go up. However, I have been emphasizing the difference in the derivation of points and what Open Season Rates should be. I have gotten feedback that HGVC is rethinking the policy, however, I don't know what they will come up with. As owner/members I believe that unreserved Club Reservation Inventory is owner/members inventory that owner members just decided to not reserve using their points. That inventory should be offered to us at at the current/old lower Open Season rates or greatly reduced percentages off rack rate. While inventory that HGVC has obtained thru other methods is really inventory that Hilton owns or has compensated owner/members for to get control over just like it owns unsold weeks. They are under no obligation to offer that to us at an extreme discount They could just put it on Hilton Honors at regular rates. If they offer that to owner/members at a discount it is an added benefit.

    I believe that in any correspondence you should emphasize the difference in the derivation of points. That may have an impact on HGVC in their final policy. I believe if HGvC takes the approach that I have mention above they have a win win with owner/members.
     
  7. USDave

    USDave Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Draft letter to send to HGVC about Open season changes

    Great idea mtm65

    Let's get organised!

    I will add an outline below for those that wish to copy and paste to Hilton. Input@hgvc.com and please add to Twitter and Facebook

    FAO Kim Robert Krieger Senior VP HGVC

    Dear Kim,

    We value our membership to a club that has fabulous resorts for our families to enjoy and we bought this membership because we valued the facilities, resources and options that HGVC offered.

    We expect that from time to time there will be price increases however we expect them to be conducted in a fair, open and transparent manner. On this occasion Hilton Grand Vacation Club has failed on all three counts.

    We feel that you have broken our trust but introducing a new charging system to the Open Season that is neither fair, open or transparent. Even your own reservations agents were not able to explain how the new charges would be applied and on what basis but did confirm that the charge could increase by 100%. When would a 100% increase year on year ever be fair or a reasonable thing to do?

    We each spend our hard earned dollars with Hilton and want to continue to do so but don't believe this is the right way to treat us as customers and club members.

    We implore you reconsider this change and listen to the voices of your members, you only have to look at TUG BBS to see the outcry this has caused.

    The only assessment that scream's out is that HGVC got it wrong on this occasion, we ask you to do the decent thing and reverse this change. We do understand that commercially changes are sometimes necessary however it must pass the test of being fair, open and transparent.

    We look forward to your response.

    Regards
     
  8. DeniseM

    DeniseM Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    52,071
    Likes Received:
    1,697
    Trophy Points:
    1,449
    Suggestion: At the top of the first post in this thread, I would add a concise summary of the issue in one or two sentences, for those who don't know about this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
  9. linsj

    linsj TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,740
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    258
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC
    I applaud USDave for writing a sample letter, but individually worded letters carry more weight than multiple copies of the same one (that needs editing). It provides an outline of issues to address though.
     
  10. mtm65

    mtm65 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Fleetwood, Pa
    Thanks for the sample letter USDave. I modified your letter and sent a copy off to HGVC. Hopefully others will do the same!
     
  11. herkimer

    herkimer Guest

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Took the advice here and wrote an email yesterday. I heard back within the hour and was told that HGVC is going to honor the Open Season 2014 rates through the first quarter of 2015 and is looking at what the increase will be after that. Obviously, they have gotten some negative feedback on this issue. Let's hope they are not just delaying for three months, but will really rethink these increases.

    When the hHonors program was devalued a year ago, we lost the benefit of a reasonable conversion for hotel stays. Now we face Open Season rates potentially not worth using. Those were two parts of the program I used regularly.
     
  12. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Denmark
    what I dont understand is, the cash flow that the open season generates is this going to each resort booked? if it does then it could keep the annual MF down.

    If it doesn't why doesn't it go to the resorts they have all the extra expenses in regards to room cleaning and so on.

    If HGVC and the resorts splits the income, it also makes sense(at least in my book) this would still contribute with income to bring down the annual MF.

    sorry my intention was not to hijack the thread.

    Regards.
     
  13. Jason245

    Jason245 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    108
    If you read the other thread on this you will see that open season does not go to the resort. It goes to HGVC, to cover the costs of the MF they pay (for units they own in the resorts), the cash they pay to other parties for club perks, the cash they pay to Hilton hotels for HH points, with the rest going to profit.
     
  14. jestme

    jestme Guest

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    188
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Curiosity. In your mind, who do you think should be paying the MF's for HGVC's owned inventory? Who should be paying the MF's for rooms occupied by all the "bonus points" their sales departments give away to retail buyers? Who should be paying the M/F's for inventory they deposit into RCI in bulk deposits?
     
  15. Jason245

    Jason245 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    108
    HGVC is paying MF for all inventory they own (see hoa financials)
    My understanding of RCI deposits is that inflows = outflow and are a result of hgvc owners trading into RCI and not hgvc putting their own points into RCI. As such, the ownerswho trade into RCI pay the mf.

    Bonus points are hgvc owned inventory being rented out.
     
  16. clotheshorse

    clotheshorse TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Southern California
    Resorts Owned:
    Vistana (Kierland & VV), Hyatt KW, Hilton, Tahiti Village
    Ditto, thank you. I sent a letter over a week ago and received a form response from Barbara. I will send another one to Kim.

    Thanks again.
     
  17. piyooshj

    piyooshj TUG Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Fremont, CA
    By increasing the OS rates by upto 100% YoY what they have essentially done is degraded the overall value of Hilton timeshare ownership.

    We are paying high upfront cost to get in (esp ones who bought retail) and then high MFs year over year. On top of it doing everything has a add on cost (except booking in your home resort).....I am not sure if it it worth it anymore....I feel I am just bleeding money year over year.....is that correct?
     
  18. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    11,035
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Location:
    North Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC x2 and Gatlinburg Town Square
    Of course your feelings are valid, for you. However, Hilton's high-price and MF's are nothing new. They reflect the quality of the resorts. We whine about the the nickle+dime fees, but they tried an all-inclusive fee and found it encouraged excessive use (like an all-inclusive resort). Fee for service used is a rational way to avoid a "free-for-all."

    IMHO, unless OS is the only reason you signed up, jumping ship is not a rational response. Sure, the change in OS rates diminishes the value of the program. OTOH, "adjustments" are going to occur from time to time. The reality is that Kim Krieger (VP) and his colleagues in the corner offices at Metro-West are tone-deaf, money-grubbing scoundrels. Perhaps if we chant "I can't breathe" loud enuff, it will have some effect at the margins.

    In the meantime, use of my week and points elsewhere is sufficient to keep me on board.
    .
    .
     
  19. Jason245

    Jason245 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    108

    Timeshares have always been and should always be considered Sunk costs (initial cost to buy in, whether it be retail or Resale).

    The value you get and should expect is the experience you have purchased. Compared to competitors, HGVC is still among the best offerings (especially given the treatment of Resale owners). The only other one I know of that offers a similar level of flexibility is DVC (although my research is a little limited).

    This is why HGVC and DVC retain a resale value as high as they do.

    MFs are a function of the needs of the HOA. If you are concerned about them, it is your right to receive a copy of the annual audited financial statements as well as copies of meeting minutes. If you believe that the HOA is being fiscally irresponsible with your money (that is what the MF are), then it is your right and duty to contact the board and ask for clarification.

    Higher MF are not a bad thing assuming that the reservers are being adequately funded. Some HOA's have lower MF and then hit you with Constant Special assessments. One of the reasons that the MFs are so high is that HGVC resorts offer some of the highest class amenities, are well maintained, have high levels of service, and maintain the highest level of resort quality (and as a result are all rated at the top of the RCI quality metrics).

    The booking costs suck, but they are lower then the costs of using other exchange systems (and remember, that is what the HGVC is, an exchange system managed and governed by HGVC).

    That being said, I think this question is better posed on the other thread on this. A lot of the back and forth on this has gone through many different cycles, with many HGVC owners expressing opinions and frustration.
     
  20. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    103
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Good Answer Jason

    That is why I feel we need to insist that HGVC not raise the Open Season Rates on Owner/Member Inventory that was not reserved during the Club Reservation Period. It is NOT Inventory that was derived from the other sources that you describe here. That inventory should remain available during Opens Season at the old/current lower rates.
     
  21. USDave

    USDave Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    HGVC got caught at it!

    Great points.

    Can I ask all that do send an email, post to HGVC Facebook and Twitter that if you are given a response like Herkimer (HGVC are so kind to move the doubling in cost back by three months) that we challenge this

    To be told that they now won't make the change until April for me doesn't change how wrong and unjust this decision is. They are simply trying to appease us and give the suggestion they have made a concession. If the double the bill now or in April, they STILL double the bill.

    What is does demonstrate is they tried to sneak in a change and Tamaradarann noticed it and got us all to talk about it.

    So HGVC got caught at it! And they would have made no change had it not been challenged. That shows us we have to push this we can't rely on them to read the boards and make the change. So far the 2 threads have had over 8200 views and 170 comments, that is enormous.

    When President Clinton got caught at it! He had 3 choices
    A) Deny all
    B) Admit part of it but try to minimise the damage
    C) Own up to everything, make a full and complete apology and try fixing the damage caused

    We all know that he settled on option B and then probably regretted it!
    This is what HGVC are trying to do and they will get away with it if we let them.

    Stay focused.

    I do actually love so much about HGVC and often refer people to purchase the resorts are top quality. The timeshare business is very lucrative business so HGVC crying poverty as a need to double prices doesn't wash.
     
  22. nlehvac

    nlehvac Guest

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2013
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    OKC, OK
    I just had a FAScinating phone call!

    I just had a phone call from someone at HGVC asking how our membership was going for us and discuss it in general (as in trying to get us to upgrade or go every year rather than EOY, etc). Since we've only been there 2 years, I said so far it's been fine and we haven't tried to do anything fancy.

    But it just so happens I AM [WAS?] starting to think about using OS, which is actually true, since we're thinking of purchasing a retirement home elsewhere and figured this would be a handy way to stay nice places as we investigate places like Hawaii and Florida islands. Naturally, I brought up the observation about a huge increase in rates and this "range" thing. He knew not of what I spoke (he said). He even called his supervisor who said they hadn't gotten any notices about any changes in the system. He was sure it was just they were covering their bases; that a reservation during Christmas would be different than even other platinum times. I think I said 3 times people realize an event week is different. He said there's no way they would increase rates 100% without notification. I told him it's in the new tables. He did say something (probably not something they meant him to) about Hawaii and NY would be different than the other resorts [NY I knew, but Hawaii is different?]. Unfortunately, since I HAVEN'T done a detailed study yet (I only scanned OS in the past since we've always had to figure way ahead), so I couldn't have all the right replies. Heck I hadn't finished THIS thread yet, much less the other one with a zillion replies, although I had started to when it first started! He suggested I call customer service and I'd see it wasn't as much a hike as it seemed and the rate would probably fall in the middle. I told him others HAVE and reported on the near 100% increases they were quoted, so if it's a misunderstanding, they have a HUGE PR problem on their hands. It also got me to wondering the way the agents didn't know the ranges existed, much less how they would work, and this rep and his supervisor (so he said) didn't know anything about any changes, maybe THAT's why it got delayed 3 months. They don't have their "stuff" ;) together yet; nothing to do with complaints at all. At the end, I suggest he just go back to the member guides and just compare how the OS rates were expressed in 2013 and 2014 and compare them to how they're expressed for 2015 for his own edification.

    I know I didn't give a PERfect performance, but I JUST ran into this thread this AM so didn't have my usual time to prepare! I'm just glad he tried to get me on my cell while I was walking my doggie so I could put him off 10 min while I pulled this and the other thread back up and think about how I was going to approach it. And I could find SOME of the info on the fly (I'm not real good at scanning while listening/talking, I'm afraid). I would have put him off longer to really prepare, but I have other commitments!

    Anyway, thought you'd enjoy this report.:wall:
     
  23. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    11,035
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Location:
    North Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC x2 and Gatlinburg Town Square
    These sales weasels always seem clueless about changes that adversely affect their talking-points. Either they are feigning ignorance or actually ignorant. Poor babies. In this case, I'm willing to believe that they were left out of the loop.
    .
     
  24. USDave

    USDave Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Great to hear

    Great to hear Nlehvac, brilliant.

    This is another tool that we need to use. It doesn't surprise me that they claim they don't know but HGVC will certainly pay attention if this gets brought up on the sales calls again and again!

    If you're on Facebook - could I please ask you to post on the
    HGVC page also.

    Talent - do you not think they may deny knowledge even if they knew as it could harm sales.
     
  25. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    11,035
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    498
    Location:
    North Florida
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC x2 and Gatlinburg Town Square
    I don't doubt that they have little "team meetings" where they discuss ways to deflect difficult or annoying issues. They've prolly been told that, if anyone tries to bring up something negative, they never heard of it.

    "What'chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?" -- Gary Coleman.

    OTOH, I would not be surprised if they are as efficient at communicating changes to the sales offices as they are to us.
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014

Share This Page