Could someone explain the Viking Ship metaphor?

[Luvstotravel]

Some of us do not live on these message boards.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't read every post, and has not been reading them for months.

I keep seeing reference to "Viking ships", like "...the Viking ship approach". Can someone explain?

 

[DeniseM]

This is the newest scam in timesharing. A "rescue company" takes your timeshare off your hands for a large fee. Then they deed it to an LLC, bankrupt the LLC, and abandon the timeshare, making it a long costly process for the HOA to recover it.

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Why a "Viking Ship"?

The company creates an LLC (the Viking Ship.)
The company acquires a bunch of unwanted timeshares (the bodies)
The company deeds the timeshares to the LLC (loads the bodies on the ship)
The company bankrupts the LLC and abandons the timeshares (sets the ship on fire and sets it adrift at sea)

 

[chalee94]

I keep seeing reference to "Viking ships", like "...the Viking ship approach". Can someone explain?

more colorful explanation per wiki:

One Viking custom was to bury dead lords in their ships...The man would be placed on his ship, along with many of his most prized possessions. The Vikings firmly believed that the dead man would sail to the after-life in his ship, a belief similar to that of the ancient Egyptians.

in keeping with the metaphor, the postcard companies load all the timeshares into a ship (LLC), set it on fire and push it away...

 

[Luvstotravel]

Thank you.

Where does the phrase come from? I thought at first it had something to do with the Viking cruise line. I guess not?

chalee94, I was typing as you were posting. Thanks for the explanation of the origin of the phrase.

 

[Timeshare Von]

Thank you.

Where does the phrase come from? I thought at first it had something to do with the Viking cruise line. I guess not?

Phase comes from historical fact that the Vikings were not very nice people. Just ask the Irish.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Phase comes from historical fact that the Vikings were not very nice people. Just ask the Irish.

Wasn't it the Vikings that discovered America?

 

[PigsDad]

Wasn't it the Vikings that discovered America?

You mean before the native Americans "discovered" America?

 

[ace2000]

Wasn't it the Vikings that discovered America?

I think it was the Vikings that discovered how to lose multiple Super Bowls...

 

[mj2vacation]

Phase comes from historical fact that the Vikings were not very nice people. Just ask the Irish.

Being of Irish and Scandinavian descent, I now know why i have mood swings!

 

[easyrider]

The viking ship also refers to any person that starts a trust to do away with bad assets. A person can set up a family trust and place all their good assets in the trust and keep all their timeshares as personal property. When they die the heirs get the trust and the hoa or resorts are notified of the death and get the timeshares back.

 

[DeniseM]

The viking ship also refers to any person that starts a trust to do away with bad assets. A person can set up a family trust and place all their good assets in the trust and keep all their timeshares as personal property. When they die the heirs get the trust and the hoa or resorts are notified of the death and get the timeshares back.

I have never heard it used this way on TUG, and the analogy doesn't really work, because there is no "Viking Ship" in your example.

Several attorneys have posted regarding the way that an undesired inheritance is refused, and there is more involved than just notifying that resort that the owner is dead. The estate is still responsible, until the heirs have legally refused to inherit the timeshares.

The fact that the "good assets" are in a trust would have no impact on the Timeshares which are not in the trust.

 

[easyrider]

I have never heard it used this way on TUG, and the analogy doesn't really work, because there is no "Viking Ship" in your example.

Several attorneys have posted regarding the way that an undesired inheritance is refused, and there is more involved than just notifying that resort that the owner is dead. The estate is still responsible, until the heirs have legally refused to inherit the timeshares.

The fact that the "good assets" are in a trust would have no impact on the Timeshares which are not in the trust.

How this works is a person has a bunch of assets that include their house, rentals, stocks and anything that is desirable placed in a trust. After 5 years these assets are protected or shielded from everyone but the heirs.

This person would own their timeshares as personal property not in the trust. After this person dies or 5 years after the trust is established, the heirs could decide if they wanted any of the timeshares or could just say Im not interested and inform the resort of the death or if the person is still alive they could just stop paying as they are impoverished. If the person that has started the trust has 10 - 50 timeshare contracts that were used for rental income these assets would not affect the trust since they are personal property.

Other personal debt, such as medical bills, do not affect the assets in the trust either.

Bottom line is if your estate has zero assets, no one gets anything but a notice if they are lucky.

Bill

 

[DeniseM]

Bill - There is a legal procedure for refusing the inheritance - you can't just tell the resort that the owner has dead. The heirs can refuse the TS inheritance whether or not there is a trust with other assets in it. This has been discussed a lot.

 

[Ridewithme38]

How this works is a person has a bunch of assets that include their house, rentals, stocks and anything that is desirable placed in a trust. After 5 years these assets are protected or shielded from everyone but the heirs.

This person would own their timeshares as personal property not in the trust. After this person dies or 5 years after the trust is established, the heirs could decide if they wanted any of the timeshares or could just say Im not interested and inform the resort of the death or if the person is still alive they could just stop paying as they are impoverished. If the person that has started the trust has 10 - 50 timeshare contracts that were used for rental income these assets would not affect the trust since they are personal property.

Other personal debt, such as medical bills, do not affect the assets in the trust either.

Bottom line is if your estate has zero assets, no one gets anything but a notice if they are lucky.

Bill

it wouldn't be better to go the other way Bill? Put the TS's in a trust or LLC with only your name on it, no heirs...that way when you die there IS no one to inherit it, the LLC will just go bankrupt and your personal assets will be seperate

 

[gnorth16]

it wouldn't be better to go the other way Bill? Put the TS's in a trust or LLC with only your name on it, no heirs...that way when you die there IS no one to inherit it, the LLC will just go bankrupt and your personal assets will be seperate

Very similar to what the LLC's are doing, except no one dies!

 

[Ridewithme38]

Very similar to what the LLC's are doing, except no one dies!

I don't think the people on here would complain if someone from a post card LLC died everytime they set off a Viking ship

 

[DeniseM]

it wouldn't be better to go the other way Bill? Put the TS's in a trust or LLC with only your name on it, no heirs...that way when you die there IS no one to inherit it, the LLC will just go bankrupt and your personal assets will be seperate

Ride - That's not how it works - even if you don't name your family as heirs, they still inherit your property. Otherwise, the families of all the people who die without wills would inherit nothing.

Think about it - if you died today, would the state of New York get your estate or would your daughter? Obviously, it would go through probate, and then to your daughter:

Who Gets What: The Basic Rules of Intestate Succession

Every state has laws that direct what happens to property when someone dies without a valid will and the property was not left in some other way (such as in a living trust). Generally, only spouses, registered domestic partners (in states where that's an option), and blood relatives inherit under intestate succession laws; unmarried partners, friends, and charities get nothing. If the deceased person was married, commonly the surviving spouse gets the largest share. If there are no children, the surviving spouse often receives all the property. More distant relatives inherit only if there is no surviving spouse or children. In the rare event that no relatives at all can be found, the state takes the assets.

 

[easyrider]

Bill - There is a legal procedure for refusing the inheritance - you can't just tell the resort that the owner has dead. The heirs can refuse the TS inheritance whether or not there is a trust with other assets in it. This has been discussed a lot.

What if a person just gets sick or old ? Their assets would be used to pay their bills, including the mf of the weeks they own. If I have 25 mf per year at an average of $800 per unit it would be 20K a year. If this person is sick then you could add medical bills of whatever. If this person ends up in the nursing home it wouldn't take long for the estate to go broke.

With a trust, after 5 years, none of these bills can affect what is in the trust.

So the viking ship is used to eliminate debt in many ways.imo


Bill

 

[singlemalt_18]

on a lighter note...

Can we start using a metaphor that is a bit more appropriate, such as eating their young?

Comparing TS resale companies to the Vikings is unfair to the Vikings! The “Viking ship” ritual was something symbolizing honor, valor, and respect, as well as a belief in the afterlife... not quite the stuff of your average TS scammer. As for not being nice people, I’m sure the Vikings would disagree… vehemently!

Violence however, has always had its historical perspective. The Nordic Tribes were a people and culture of great accomplishment and they exhibited dominion over their world; as did the Romans during their reign, the Prussians during theirs, the Spanish during theirs, the French during theirs, and the British during theirs. And I suppose, the U.S. can be said to as well.

If nothing else, maybe we can take some comfort in the fact that all great civilizations come to an end, and some day the same will be true of TS scammers… or at least we can hope!

 

[ronparise]

Bill - There is a legal procedure for refusing the inheritance - you can't just tell the resort that the owner has dead. The heirs can refuse the TS inheritance whether or not there is a trust with other assets in it. This has been discussed a lot.

The point of this approach is to not have other assets in the estate, like money, that would be wasted paying timeshare maintenance fees. Other valuable assets either held jointly wros or in a trust will pass without probate.

If the heirs just say no...(thats the legal procedure) the timeshares will rot in the estate,

Of course the administrator can advise the hoa that the owner died. In fact I think he should give them the first opportunity to buy the timeshare

 

[easyrider]

it wouldn't be better to go the other way Bill? Put the TS's in a trust or LLC with only your name on it, no heirs...that way when you die there IS no one to inherit it, the LLC will just go bankrupt and your personal assets will be seperate

I was really considering starting a LLC to aquire some of my favorite destinations for profit. I would honestly try to stay legit but in the end I think the LLC would fail and I would start another.

In my fantasy, I collect two years of MF and 3k from each person wanting out of their contract. Then after 6 months we travel using reservations made from these contracts I now own and spend money collected as fees. All of this resort travel becomes a tax write off as I research the resorts I plan to sell. If 1000 people used this service I would earn 2000 vacation weeks worth posibly $1,700,000 and 300K cash.

Then if we run out of money I close the LLC and start another.

Bill

 

[DeniseM]

What if a person just gets sick or old ? Their assets would be used to pay their bills, including the mf of the weeks they own. If I have 25 mf per year at an average of $800 per unit it would be 20K a year. If this person is sick then you could add medical bills of whatever. If this person ends up in the nursing home it wouldn't take long for the estate to go broke.

With a trust, after 5 years, none of these bills can affect what is in the trust.

So the viking ship is used to eliminate debt in many ways.imo

Bill

Bill - The analogy still doesn't work - your example has no, "burning ship." After this person dies, the timeshares will still have to be disposed of by the estate. This strategy did not get rid of the timeshares...

 

[siesta]

This is the newest scam in timesharing. A "rescue company" takes your timeshare off your hands for a large fee. Then they deed it to an LLC, bankrupt the LLC, and abandon the timeshare, making it a long costly process for the HOA to recover it.

maybe this will encourage resorts to take deedbacks instead of refusing, since they will get the week back anyways and less cost involved that way. If resorts took deedbacks, the owner wouldnt be pressed to use a up front fee company, and then the scam company wouldnt get their business, and the resort wont get burned. Its cyclical!

 

[easyrider]

The point of this approach is to not have other assets in the trust, like money, that would be wasted paying timeshare maintenance fees. Other valuable assets either held jointly wros or in a trust will pass without probate.

If the heirs just say no...(thats the legal procedure) the timeshares will rot in the estate,

Of course the administrator can advise the hoa that the owner died. In fact I think he should give them the first opportunity to buy the timeshare

Almost right. The money is in the trust being shielded from debt, not the personal estate.

 

[easyrider]

Bill - The analogy doesn't work - your example has no, "burning ship." After this person dies, the timeshares will still have to be disposed of by the estate. This strategy did not get rid of the timeshares...

Yes, this is true at death unless there was a collection for past due mf or special assesments owned.

But if your assets were in a trust after, 5 years you could say Im not paying any more mf. If you have a bunch of TS contracts the hoa couldn't get to the trust to collect. So all of the contracts are forclosed on.

The viking ship theroy is to make debt uncolectible. A trust serves this purpose.


Bill