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Cost to Buy Your Kid's Way Into The Best Universities

Discussion in 'TUG Lounge' started by CalGalTraveler, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. rapmarks

    rapmarks TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

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    Back in the early seventies, teaching in a high school English department in Illinois, new department chairman stated couldn’t wait to get rid of teachers from state universities, wanted Ivy League. we had Harvard grads in the department, at that time I had masters degree, my sixth year of teaching and made eleven thousand. I don’t know why Harvard grads were applying .
     
  2. DrQ

    DrQ TUG Member

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    I have to chuckle about the sleepless nights 100 OTHER parents are getting, fearing for another shoe to drop ...:eek:

    Lullaby and goodnight ... :D
     
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  3. b2bailey

    b2bailey TUG Member

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    This mess has so many layers, each one on it's own able to catch a news headline. Altogether, it's overwhelming.
    1. Student test scores altered in various ways to achieve favorable admission.
    2. Coaches agree to falsify admission based on fake photos of students doing the named sport. (Accepting money to do so.)
    3. Parents contribute and deduct on taxes payments made to false charity set up by mastermind of the scheme.

    I haven't seen mention here of the way this was revealed to the FBI -- but the recordings show it was on their radar for awhile.
    I was told it came out during Federals negotiating with another criminal on another case who said he had information...

    The idea that the 'ringleader' is going to get off with a slap, because he cooperated, is disgusting.
     
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  4. DrQ

    DrQ TUG Member

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  5. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Great summary. So true about the ringleader. Rich people don't just give away their money unless they expect a successful result. If the parents were paying big bucks, I am sure he felt highly pressured by the parents to provide a guarantee (or extremely high likelihood of success), which may have drove him to find side doors to keep the moolah coming and his reputation pristine.

    Although the parent's knew this was unethical, I wonder how many of the parent's knew they were breaking the law.
     
  6. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Here's the report on who blew the whistle. Got a plea bargain on a different crime and spilled the beans on this. It was being investigated for a year.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/us/college-cheating-scam-how-authorities-found-out/index.html
     
  7. T_R_Oglodyte

    T_R_Oglodyte TUG Lifetime Member

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    I like this snark.

    upload_2019-3-15_16-8-32.png
     
  8. am1

    am1 TUG Member

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    Maybe that’s all they could do. Not in a negative way but just the truth. An Ivy League degree is great but does not mean much on its own.
     
  9. rapmarks

    rapmarks TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

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    But I can guarantee you they didn’t stick it out and make it a career, lots only lasted one year.
     
  10. b2bailey

    b2bailey TUG Member

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    I actually woke up feeling sorry for Lori Loughlin this morning. I suppose I am mixing her up with the character she plays on Hallmark mystery series. But today I am thinking how this one mistake will have resounding repercussions for her. And the video quote from her daughter is like salt in her wound.
     
  11. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I have no sympathy for entitled overpaid celebrities. I hope these people go to prison but knowing the court systems they will not serve any time. Another priviledge they get which ordinary people don't.
     
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  12. e.bram

    e.bram Guest

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    Except for Yale and Stanford, I can't see anybody paying to get into the other schools.
     
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  13. DrQ

    DrQ TUG Member

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    In Texas, We Try to Indict Whoever Finds the College Admissions Cheating

    JIM SCHUTZE | MARCH 18, 2019 | 4:00AM
    We don’t even yet know how much of it is true, but the $25 million college admissions bribery scandal described in a federal indictment in Massachusetts last week has already ignited a firestorm of blame-laying, which should fill my heart with joy.

    The blame game, after all, is my personal sport. I’ve always thought it should be in the Olympics. But I don’t know. Some of this stuff is all over the place.

    The New York Times took note last week that some of the alleged cheating involves parents who paid smart kids to take SAT exams for their own less smart kids. The Times headline was, “Is the College Cheating Scandal the ‘Final Straw’ for Standardized Tests?” The suggestion was that colleges and universities may have to cut back on standardized testing because some people are cheating on the tests.Really? It’s the test’s fault? How about instituting even more standardized testing, making the tests even tougher but cutting back on cheating? Isn’t that a more direct path to the problem?

    Some of the cheating scandal has touched the University of Texas in Austin, and The Texas Tribune, a nonprofit online news service, reported last week that Gov. Greg Abbott was in a righteous lather about it:

    “As far as the University of Texas is concerned — but I will expand this to every university in the state of Texas — it’s important for every university to go back and re-evaluate, to study and to investigate their admissions processes to make sure that nothing like this either is happening or can happen,” Abbott told a news conference last week, according to the Tribune.

    Remind me when I fly somewhere to pocket some extra barf bags from the plane so I’ll have them on hand next time I have to read The Texas Tribune. Are you kidding me? Four years ago Dallas businessman Wallace Hall, a member of the University of Texas System Board of Regents, uncovered evidence, confirmed in a later third-party investigation, of deep-rooted admissions cheating at UT Austin and the UT law school. Abbott, then Texas attorney general, banded together with a pack of angry baying wolves in the Legislature to shut Hall up and prevent him from exposing the full extent of the scandal to the public.
     
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  14. e.bram

    e.bram Guest

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    People want to go to the IVYs so they can say I went to '?????' for the rest of their lives to impress!
     
  15. Snazzylass

    Snazzylass Guest

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    Please forgive me for saying this because of course I do not have any particulars, but USUALLY when someone is THIS bold, it is because they are accustomed to getting away with such outrageous behavior.
    Parents start this sort of behavior way before the college admissions. And, it seems this whole scheme was discovered because a college coach BOLDY asked for a payment (bribe). So, this group was caught but there must be others...
     
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  16. grupp

    grupp TUG Member

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    A few things stand out to me in this situation.

    1. The biggest surprise to me is the fact people seemed shocked that this type of thing is occurring. College admission is not some pristine process that is above fraud and bias. Especially in the area of athletics where payoffs and academic fraud is a common occurrence that we ignore because many people, including myself, are sports fans and they make the school a ton of many.


    2. Why anyone pay $500,000 to get into USC, I am sure a $50,000 donation to the school probably would have gotten the job done.


    3. The testing SAT and ACT testing process a full of problems and only as secure and legit as the person running the test site. My son had an issue when taking the ACT where the individual administering the test messed up and allowed LESS time for a portion of the test. They acknowledged their mistake and said they would advise the Site Administrator. However, when I followed up the ACT they said they had not been notified of any issues from the testing site. Fortunately, they person I was dealing with opened and investigation. The Administrator did their best to cover it up, but it was clear they were lying and the person from ACT finally got them to admit their error.


    4. What is up with all these ridicules law suits? People just need to move on and not obsess that they didn’t get into a particular school. Maybe it is the lawyers driving as they see the big pot of money the schools have in their endowments

    Make no mistake, whether you think it is worth it or not college admission advising is big business with a lot of money being spent. I know someone in the admission advising business and she charges around $5,000 per student to help advise them what classes to take, what clubs to join and assists in completing applications. I know a few people who used her services, but in the end the kids actually ended up at a school they could have easily been admitted to without her assistance. Go figure.

    Also, the ideas that going to an elite school can provide some benefits and that a person can be successful without going to an elite school are not mutually exclusive. For certain majors a degree from an elite school will provide you with opportunities and networking advantages not available to others. Whether they are worth the extra cost is a matter of opinion. However, I believe that you find what you need to be successful at any college, but some just require you to look a little harder to find it.
     
  17. bbodb1

    bbodb1 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    On a smaller scale, perhaps some focus will finally be applied to the role the ACT and SAT play in college admissions. Another reality of the modern day college admissions process is the reality that a score on a 3-4 hour test carries far more weight than what a student did over the course of four years.
     
  18. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Apparently a number of schools are re-thinking the use of standardized tests and some have dropped the requirement. I saw an article this morning that the UC and Cal State systems are considering dropping it altogether.
     
  19. VacationForever

    VacationForever Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    People cheat on STANDARDIZED testings, so let's do away with them. People die from eating, so let's not eat. People make more with a college degree, so let's give everyone a college degree. People don't want to work, let's give everyone a living income.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  20. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Just got to LUV threads on colleges.

    My older brother graduated from Princeton U earning a degree in engineering after 4 years there. My Dad told me I could go to a state teachers college, live at home and work parttime as ALL HIS money was going to Princeton for my brother's education. I was 2 years younger. I scored 200 points lower than my brother did on his SATs (712Verbal, 800Math)

    My paternal grandmother had a 'discussion' with my father ... saying "how PROUD she was her first grandson was at Princeton, BUT he was NOT going to condemn her first grandaugter to a life of servitude under some man for her grandson to graduate from Princeton. Divide the money in half and both can go to Glassboro Teacher's College." Rowan University now.

    My father came home (less than a mile from his mother's house) and THREW THINGS at me when he came thru the door. He screamed words of "I don't care WHERE you go to college as long as it is far enough way YOU can NOT be having TEA at her dining room table". I went to college 1000 miles from home. And my Dad's words were when he dropped me off at college were "Have a nice life." No words about book money, or coming home for Thanksgiving or summers. I found his words humerous .... I had "left home" MANY years earlier ... been paying my way with babysitting money or Girl Scout cookie sales, working as a dishwasher at camp or cleaning horse stalls or by sewing my own clothes.

    And my father's words when I walk thru the kitchen door from Florida at Thanksgiving ... "Where did you come from?" I said the airport, as I paid for my own plane flight ... there had been NO letters or phone calls about "coming home for the holidays". Yes, I was 18yo ... just repeat the scene for Xmas the next month. And end of May, etc. And the next year.

    And Dad's "expressed feelings" for me changing schools and majors ... as I decided to go to Rutgers University. I had an interview to transfer starting my Junior year. I applied and was accepted at this state college and major for my Freshman year .. I declined and now decided I did wanted to do that. It was a most interesting interview as I was thrown OUT while the PhD professor lectured my FATHER on WHY he should be encouraging my plan to study COMPUTER SCIENCE over a math degree. And that was my "Junior Year Abroad" ... in a Union State studying (computer) languages.

    I did graduate from the Florida college in 3.5 years. Math major, Comp Sci major and an Accouting minor with 5+ job offers. I had attended 3 colleges during that time ... declining a offer of being a TA to earn a free Masters Degree in Accounting my Florida college. The Accounting department chairman had one question for me "What were YOU doing the prior school year, as you were not in attendance at our FL university?" My transcript from Rutgers had not come in yet ... showing my Computer Science major plus my cost accounting course. And the rest of that semester .. my name became "Pure Knowledge" whenever the Accounting Dept. Chairman had a question not answer by two or more of my other classmates. I loved the groaning in the class when that happened. Florida, early 1970s, Flower power and a classful of want-to-be CPAs ... plus plane flights most weekend for job interviews in the Northeast USA.

    PS The one company in Pittsburg I interviewed with had been told to hire a "female". And they admitted they wanted me, as I at least knew how to run a keypunch along with getting coffee. I reamed out the HR guy at the end of the day for wasting my time.

    PPS My sister 6 years younger than me graduated from Duke with a Mechnical Engineering degree. She was on the IBM PC & PCjr development teams, travelled the world to China plus Europe. Got a job at Compaq in Texas and became an "officer of the corporation". Kept her "officer" position during the HP buyout of Compaq. Is now retired from HP. Was always happy when it was MY Christmas to get a NEW computer under my tree from Texas.
     
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  21. mpumilia

    mpumilia TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    It's all about ego.
     
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  22. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

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    ...which is a bunch of crap. In most cases talent and work ethic will prevail...

    George
     
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  23. Marathoner

    Marathoner TUG Member

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    I agree with you. But kids who are studious and have great work ethic are likely to get the best grades and get into the best colleges, no?

    Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
     
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  24. Brett

    Brett Guest

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    math and computer science major with a minor in accounting, that should definitely get some job offers today.
    (assuming one has the talent and work ethic)
     
  25. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    IMHO I believe college rankings such as U.S. News lists are bogus when it comes to ranking the top 25 schools. Best rankings money can buy. All the schools on the list are good.

    This will be the next scandal. How the magazines receive "advertising" money in exchange for ranking certain private universities higher.

    The fact that public universities such as Univ of Calif and Michigan fall into the 10 - 20 tier is evidence of this bias. I attended both a UC and a top Ivy and I can tell you from first-hand experience that the Ivy was no better. In fact I believe the UC prepared me better for the real world because things were not just handed to me. I had to go out and get what I needed to succeed whether that was information on classes needed to graduate, or the next class assignment. LOL my Ivy tuition was $11k per semester which is considerably less than U.C. in-state tuition today!
     

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