Cancelled reservations showing back up??

[luvNMB52]

I know this has been discussed before, but I can't seem to find the thread. I made a reservation for Thanksgiving for a 3br and a 4br at a resort in Myrtle Beach. The thought was that I would wait till the appropriate time and cancel the 4br and get it as an automatic upgrade. I knew it was a gamble, and a 3br will get the job done, just won't be as roomy. So... I cancelled the 4 bedroom a couple days ago (actually just before midnight Saturday night) and, so far, I have not gotten an upgrade nor has the 4br shown back up in MB inventory (or I haven't seen it and I have been checking frequently). The other part of the story is that our children/grandchildren have now decided that it would be nice to change the dates by moving them back a day (from 11/21-25 to 11/20-24). I now am thinking if that 4br came back into inventory, I would re-reserve it changing the dates. Anyone have any past experience with a cancelled reservation showing back up?? Does it sometimes show up days later? I will continue to watch for it, but am beginning to be discouraged. (I also checked Extra Holidays and no 4br is available for rent there, either.) Also, as a long shot -- did someone reading this happen to pick up a 4br reservation in the past few days at The Cottages in MB? I'd love to know if you did so I can stop stalking the website! haha Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Canceled reservations have been dodgy since we moved to this new system.

I have seen a reservation 1 to 3 days after I canceled mine. DO NOT know if it was mine, but eventually something appeared.

I have have seen reservations NEVER come back, assuming they went to someone else upgrade or they went to Extra Holidays which is within Wyndham's legal rights.

 

[Avislo]

If the dates are movable, this one is currently showing.

Wyndham at The Cottages
Myrtle Beach Area, South Carolina

• CHECK-IN Nov 25, 2018 4pm
  
  
• CHECK OUT Nov 29, 2018 10am
  
  
• PRICE
  MORE
  72,000 36,000 Points

• UNIT TYPE 4 Bedroom Deluxe
  
  
• Managed By Wyndham
  
  
• 
  
• UPGRADE Upgraded - Oct 29, 2018
  

Helpful Hints

• Enjoy the amenities at Wyndham Ocean Boulevard, which is a block away.
  

 

[chapjim]

If the dates are movable, this one is currently showing.

Wyndham at The Cottages
Myrtle Beach Area, South Carolina

• CHECK-IN Nov 25, 2018 4pm
  
  
• CHECK OUT Nov 29, 2018 10am
  
  
• PRICE
  MORE
  72,000 36,000 Points

• UNIT TYPE 4 Bedroom Deluxe
  
  
• Managed By Wyndham
  
  
• 
  
• UPGRADE Upgraded - Oct 29, 2018

Helpful Hints

• Enjoy the amenities at Wyndham Ocean Boulevard, which is a block away.

In any particular year, Thanksgiving is fixed. OP needs Thanksgiving and a couple of days each side. You found the following week. WTG!

 

[luvNMB52]

In any particular year, Thanksgiving is fixed. OP needs Thanksgiving and a couple of days each side. You found the following week. WTG!

I appreciate Avislo's attempt to "help," but kinda' had the same thought as you. :/

 

[chapjim]

I appreciate Avislo's attempt to "help," but kinda' had the same thought as you. :/

Avislo's attempts to help are often misdirected. A few days ago, he found a 1BR unit for a poster who needed minimum 2BRs. So it goes.

 

[Jan M.]

It is pretty safe to say that when you cancelled that 4 bedroom there was almost no chance you would see it come back nor get an automatic upgrade. With the cancellations it is like Sandy VDH said, it may come back in 1-3 days or it may not come back at all. The larger units and holiday weeks both fit into that not at all category.

 

[luvNMB52]

It is pretty safe to say that when you cancelled that 4 bedroom there was almost no chance you would see it come back nor get an automatic upgrade. With the cancellations it is like Sandy VDH said, it may come back in 1-3 days or it may not come back at all. The larger units and holiday weeks both fit into that not at all category.

I think we beat the odds!! Just checked, once again, and we got the upgrade to the 4 bedroom! Miracles do happen, I guess!

 

[klpca]

I think we beat the odds!! Just checked, once again, and we got the upgrade to the 4 bedroom! Miracles do happen, I guess!

That was a nail biter! Good for you!

 

[Jan M.]

I think we beat the odds!! Just checked, once again, and we got the upgrade to the 4 bedroom! Miracles do happen, I guess!

That is very exciting! And that it was for a reservation over Thanksgiving is even more impressive. It may fall into that even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while category but I'm still pleased to count it as a win.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Wow! I'm sure impressed. Good for you, enjoy!

I wonder if having the 3 bedroom had anything to do with it? It shouldn't have, but you have to wonder.

At the owners meeting they said the system is real time, that if you don't see your reservation right away someone else got it. They say that kind of stuff with a straight face.

 

[nkldavy]

I'm still seeing a rez from 21 - 24 Oct 2018 at the head of my upcoming reservation list. Back to the future? Anyone else had this ? If so, what happened afterwards ? Heaven knows what'll get messed up if they try to place it into the correct place. And heaven knows what might happen if I just leave it where it is.
Uncle Davey

 

[chapjim]

I'm still seeing a rez from 21 - 24 Oct 2018 at the head of my upcoming reservation list. Back to the future? Anyone else had this ? If so, what happened afterwards ? Heaven knows what'll get messed up if they try to place it into the correct place. And heaven knows what might happen if I just leave it where it is.
Uncle Davey

I had four reservations in August 2017 that didn't clear for six or eight months. It was annoying but so far as I could tell, there was no harm done.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I had 2 reservations, also in August 2017. They hung around forever, I don't remember when they finally stopped showing in current reservations. I don't think they caused any problems other than be annoying, as Jim said.

 

[jules54]

I was also at the owners meeting where Wyndham execs said cancellations dropped into inventory in real time. What BS I wanted to scream oh wait I did shout "that is not what is happening" many others agreed with me. Basically they just ignored every dispute of their answers with a to my knowledge and understanding that is what is happening. Pretty much sucked.

 

[Richelle]

Here is my theory of how the auto upgrade system works, and why we don't see canceled inventory right away.

Owner cancels reservation. Inventory gets flagged as canceled inventory. The system does not allow canceled inventory to be booked. The system only shows you available inventory, so since you cannot book canceled inventory, it will not show up when you look for availability.

Automated process runs (maybe multiple times a day) and changes the flag from canceled inventory to available inventory which makes it available for bookings and upgrades.

Once the first scheduled process runs, a second one kicks off that does the actual upgrades. The second process has to wait for the first to complete, before it can do any upgrades, so there is a few minute gap where anyone can book that released inventory.

When the second process completes the upgrades, the rooms that the owners originally booked are flagged as canceled inventory. When the first process runs again, it gets released and the whole process starts over.

The reason I think this is the case, is because I've seen inventory get released between 8:30ish and 8:45 that disappears within minutes. A lot of times, multiple units of different sizes. I find it hard to believe that it's being picked up by an owner every time. One room maybe, but not three or four. I think it gets picked up by the second process once the first finally finishes.

I have two theories on why it sometimes takes days for inventory to come back. First was mentioned earlier that it may not have been the same inventory that popped back up. Second, automated processes break all the time if they were poorly written. If there is a large workload, it may time out. Sometimes you have to run the same process over and over until it gets through it's back log, or adjust the timeout settings. If the process fails to change a flag, it may stop the process entirely until it's fixed. While it's being fixed, the workload builds up.

My theory on why available rooms are not being used as upgrades, is that maybe the resorts classify inventory in different ways. Maybe a coding system. Wyndham has to account for the different coding systems in their program. The smarter thing would be to have the resort change their coding system, however, that may not be possible for some resorts.


These theories may sound crazy, but it's all I can come up with.

 

[chapjim]

Here is my theory of how the auto upgrade system works, and why we don't see canceled inventory right away.

Owner cancels reservation. Inventory gets flagged as canceled inventory. The system does not allow canceled inventory to be booked. The system only shows you available inventory, so since you cannot book canceled inventory, it will not show up when you look for availability.

Automated process runs (maybe multiple times a day) and changes the flag from canceled inventory to available inventory which makes it available for bookings and upgrades.

Once the first scheduled process runs, a second one kicks off that does the actual upgrades. The second process has to wait for the first to complete, before it can do any upgrades, so there is a few minute gap where anyone can book that released inventory.

When the second process completes the upgrades, the rooms that the owners originally booked are flagged as canceled inventory. When the first process runs again, it gets released and the whole process starts over.

The reason I think this is the case, is because I've seen inventory get released between 8:30ish and 8:45 that disappears within minutes. A lot of times, multiple units of different sizes. I find it hard to believe that it's being picked up by an owner every time. One room maybe, but not three or four. I think it gets picked up by the second process once the first finally finishes.

I have two theories on why it sometimes takes days for inventory to come back. First was mentioned earlier that it may not have been the same inventory that popped back up. Second, automated processes break all the time if they were poorly written. If there is a large workload, it may time out. Sometimes you have to run the same process over and over until it gets through it's back log, or adjust the timeout settings. If the process fails to change a flag, it may stop the process entirely until it's fixed. While it's being fixed, the workload builds up.

My theory on why available rooms are not being used as upgrades, is that maybe the resorts classify inventory in different ways. Maybe a coding system. Wyndham has to account for the different coding systems in their program. The smarter thing would be to have the resort change their coding system, however, that may not be possible for some resorts.


These theories may sound crazy, but it's all I can come up with.

Far be it from me to say anyone's theory about the auto upgrade system is crazy or wrong!

Conventional wisdom was (and may still be) that the upgrade routine was done sometime in the wee hours of the morning. You allow that the automated process might run more than once a day and I'm wondering if there is a lot of support for that. This goes back to a question I posed a while back: If I check for a reservation at 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning and no availability shows, is it hopeless to continue checking later the same day? You seem to think it might not be hopeless. Same question in looking for upgrades -- if it's not there in the morning, might it be there later the same day? I'm thinking (although I can't say for sure) that I've never seen an upgrade except the first time I check my reservation list, usually pretty early in the AM. If your theory is correct, I may be checking too early in the AM.

If I understand your first and second processes, units are released all during the first process and are available for a period of time until the first process completes and maybe until at least some of the second process runs. One would think that nothing from the first process would be available for new reservations until after the second process had run. ("One would think" doesn't regularly apply to Wyndham's reservation system.)

Another popular theory is that Extra Holidays is sucking up cancellations made inside 60 days and maybe even outside 60 days. There's no way to prove or disprove that although I often check Extra Holidays before and after I cancel a prime time reservation and I've seen nothing to support the theory.

All these batch processes could explain a lot of what we see with the system slowing down (what the IT people call "latency") and crashing ("having issues").

 

[Richelle]

Far be it from me to say anyone's theory about the auto upgrade system is crazy or wrong!

Conventional wisdom was (and may still be) that the upgrade routine was done sometime in the wee hours of the morning. You allow that the automated process might run more than once a day and I'm wondering if there is a lot of support for that. This goes back to a question I posed a while back: If I check for a reservation at 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning and no availability shows, is it hopeless to continue checking later the same day? You seem to think it might not be hopeless. Same question in looking for upgrades -- if it's not there in the morning, might it be there later the same day? I'm thinking (although I can't say for sure) that I've never seen an upgrade except the first time I check my reservation list, usually pretty early in the AM. If your theory is correct, I may be checking too early in the AM.

If I understand your first and second processes, units are released all during the first process and are available for a period of time until the first process completes and maybe until at least some of the second process runs. One would think that nothing from the first process would be available for new reservations until after the second process had run. ("One would think" doesn't regularly apply to Wyndham's reservation system.)

Another popular theory is that Extra Holidays is sucking up cancellations made inside 60 days and maybe even outside 60 days. There's no way to prove or disprove that although I often check Extra Holidays before and after I cancel a prime time reservation and I've seen nothing to support the theory.

All these batch processes could explain a lot of what we see with the system slowing down (what the IT people call "latency") and crashing ("having issues").

I probably should have mentioned that one of those times I saw inventory pop up, I booked a three bedroom presidential a month and a half out during high season at Bonnet Creek. Someone obviously canceled something. It should have gone to the next upgrade or to Extra holidays if they even offer presidential suites. There were other rooms available, but when I checked again, there was no inventory. Another time I saw a two bed presidential at Myrtle beach. The resort name is escaping me right now, but it wasn’t ocean boulevard or Seawatch. I checked two minutes later and it was gone. Also, I have seen some people report seeing new inventory in the afternoon. So that is why I think it might be multiple times a day. That and because there is a ton of inventory out there and many people are booking and canceling reservations everyday. To do it all in one batch might be to cumbersome and greatly affect performance. Maybe not all of the time, but a lot of times, so they have to plan for those times. Maybe the inventory hangs out longer because the first process has to change that flag on thousands (instead of hundreds) of inventory, and it takes awhile. So available inventory hangs out there longer to be taken by an owner. By doing it in batches, the process runs faster and you have less lag time between the two processes for available inventory to be booked.

I definitely agree with you that the inventory should not be available before the second process completes but think of this. You are adding a step in the process. The only way to keep it from getting snatched is to label it something else, to keep it out of the general availability pool. What if, they label all that canceled inventory as “upgrade inventory” so it’s not in the general availability pool. Then it runs through the second process. When it’s done, if there is anything left, it has to change the flag on that left over inventory to available inventory. Sounds simple right? Unfortunately that’s one more step that can break. If it fails in the middle, you could potentially have a mess on your hands. So dropping it in the available pool is the safer option. One less component to break. With that said, I am not a developer. I am also not a DBA, but I have worked closely with both for years. I’m a server admin who manages the automated processes and did write some of my own. The management process was not easy, because if one process broke, it could potentially affect dozens or even hundreds of other processes that rely on that one process. If an automated process was not documented properly, it could sometimes take hours to determine the full scope of impact and clean up the mess. In the mean time, the company is not able to process payments or send out bills. It was a mess sometimes.

It’s hard to prove my theory without knowing if something that was canceled at a resort that is booked solid.


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[chapjim]

I can't believe the volume of cancellations in a 24 hour period is so great that it should overload Wyndham's system. Only Wyndham's general IT ineptitude makes it believable.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Given what I have seen in inventory, my guess is that inventory that is cancelled randomly appears back into inventory, if at all. It does not instantly return back, but it MAY come back 1 to 3 days later. What wyndham is doing with it is beyond me.

I am beginning to believe that the update process is a batch process that happens around midnight EST. I often find that although upgrades are available at this time, they are not bookable. They are locked out.

So I think the two processes are not coordinated. If they were coordinated, people would not be seeing upgrades that could have been applied to their requests but did not yet get upgraded sitting out in inventory.

I would have thought that cancelled reservations are held then the upgrades batch is processed, then whatever results in new inventory is let out, but my observations are thinking that is NOT happening that way.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I can't believe the volume of cancellations in a 24 hour period is so great that it should overload Wyndham's system. Only Wyndham's general IT ineptitude makes it believable.

Jim, I don't think it's the volume of cancellations. I think the resource consuming aspect is searching the database, searching through all the records in the database (once or maybe twice). And the more qualified the search (say it's looking for a specific resort and a specific data range), the less performant it will be.

I think we all pretty much agree, the upgrade is a batch process (or two) (it pretty much has to be). If it's 2 batch processes and the first releases and the second does the upgrade, then it certainly explains the flawed expectation that people get upgrades before someone else can book the larger room.

I agree with Sandy VDH, I think it's 2 unrelated processes. And the release one runs much more frequently (but doesn't have to) than the upgrade process.I think the upgrades run sporadically and at Wyndham's convenience. I doubt it's every night. I don't think the room releases or the upgrades happen when they have an announced outage.

I also think Wyndham has much more control over when they release rooms. Immediately, in 15 minutes, in a couple hours or days, or ever. They like to say that the resorts now have the control. Maybe each can set their own parameters?

There are so many ways that Wyndham can market or use the rooms. Extra Holiday's is not the only place they may end up. I don't suspect EH as much as others. I think it can go many places or just get wasted.

It's all to Wyndham's benefit. They pretty much can do whatever they want, and there is no accountability.

Why, as owners, are we not entitled to know how the system is supposed to work? Why are they able to lie and tell us they are immediately released and the system is real time?

I played around with some booking and cancellations at Panama City. I need some rooms there and the multiple types of rooms makes it easier to tell what's going on. Rooms I booked and cancelled have still not come back into inventory (from 5:30am). However a room I held for the 15 min booking window did come right back (repeatedly). In the meantime, a room showed up for another date (much to my sister's delight ). Conclusion my cancelled rooms were held back while others were coming available. If/when mine come back (and I think they will) I'll post an update.

 

[luvNMB52]

It’s hard to prove my theory without knowing if something that was canceled at a resort that is booked solid.


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The experience I had recently was at The Cottages at Myrtle Beach. It is a very small resort with only 40 cottages (30 3br and 10 4br). I had used ARP to reserve one of each for Thanksgiving, each reservation being for 4 nights. The resort was completely booked for this time period and last Saturday night, just before midnight, I cancelled the 4 bedroom. I was hoping my 3 br would upgrade to the 4 br I cancelled, but would have also been okay to re-reserve the 4br (if it popped back up in inventory) b/c our daughter had recently told me that they would prefer to change the dates to arrive one day earlier (I had checked and knew that should be possible).

I checked the website several times, around the clock, on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. On Tuesday evening, there was a 3br available to book. I then checked my reservation and my 3br had been upgraded! Obviously, I was surprised and happy!

Of course, now I still wished I could get the exact dates my daughter preferred, so I booked the 3br to check-in a day earlier. I was very surprised when I looked back at available inventory to see that a 3br was still there. So, that tells me that someone else had cancelled a 3br (or had done same thing as I did to get an upgrade). I continued to periodically watch this and the 3br disappeared the next day so now the resort is completely booked again.

So, I’m not sure how the above info works into your theory, but it does give some info as to a specific occurrence at a completely booked resort.

NOTE: The rest of this long post is just my personal situation, so doesn’t really have anything to do with topic... just thought I’d share as I think others may go through similar dilemmas when booking for their family trips...

Now, I have a decision to make... do I again cancel the 4 br and hope it will become the upgrade for the current 3br reservation (with the preferred dates) or do I wait till 14 days out and reserve one night in the 4br to make that reservation into a 5-night stay when the kids will probably leave a day earlier than DH and I. Consider that the number of additional points for the one extra night is 20,250 plus I incur a RT fee. Also consider that the 3br reservation made on the preferred dates saved me 35,500 points due to discounts and also changing a weekend night to a weeknight, so a total saving of 56,000 points. (I am GF Silver VIP so that’s a pretty good chunk of points for us.). The number of people is 8 (4 adults and 4 kids, age 6 mos, 4-yr old twins and a 6 yr old). A 3br will accommodate us, but it is nice to have the extra br and bathroom, with the 4 young children. However, these extra points could give Us an extra trip in 2019 (our use year ends 9/30 so we have lots of time to use the points).

I still have a couple days to make my decision. What would you do?

 

[ronparise]

My opinion is this: reservations dont come back immediately or on a predictable schedule by design.

The point of the auto upgrade thing was to frustrate the megarenters. I used to be able to make a high value reservation when the reservation window opened 10-13 months in advance, Then at 60 days, cancel and immediately rebook to capture the VIP discount. With auto upgrades the idea was that my cancellation would be someone else's upgrade, and I would lose my high value reservation... Seemed like a perfect solution for wyndham..close the loophole and present it as a new benefit

But if that happened the reservation that was upgraded ought to come back into inventory.... That isnt happening

Also If I made a reservation for a studio or one bedroom (the smallest unit at the resort, when I cancel that; it cant be upgraded into, so it should come back into inventory immediately... That isnt happening either

If either of these two things was happening, reservations would be coming back into inventory and the mega renters would still be able to capture discounts on high value reservations. Wyndham dosent want that so what you see is what you get

 

[chapjim]

The experience I had recently was at The Cottages at Myrtle Beach. It is a very small resort with only 40 cottages (30 3br and 10 4br). I had used ARP to reserve one of each for Thanksgiving, each reservation being for 4 nights. The resort was completely booked for this time period and last Saturday night, just before midnight, I cancelled the 4 bedroom. I was hoping my 3 br would upgrade to the 4 br I cancelled, but would have also been okay to re-reserve the 4br (if it popped back up in inventory) b/c our daughter had recently told me that they would prefer to change the dates to arrive one day earlier (I had checked and knew that should be possible).

I checked the website several times, around the clock, on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. On Tuesday evening, there was a 3br available to book. I then checked my reservation and my 3br had been upgraded! Obviously, I was surprised and happy!

Of course, now I still wished I could get the exact dates my daughter preferred, so I booked the 3br to check-in a day earlier. I was very surprised when I looked back at available inventory to see that a 3br was still there. So, that tells me that someone else had cancelled a 3br (or had done same thing as I did to get an upgrade). I continued to periodically watch this and the 3br disappeared the next day so now the resort is completely booked again.

So, I’m not sure how the above info works into your theory, but it does give some info as to a specific occurrence at a completely booked resort.

NOTE: The rest of this long post is just my personal situation, so doesn’t really have anything to do with topic... just thought I’d share as I think others may go through similar dilemmas when booking for their family trips...

Now, I have a decision to make... do I again cancel the 4 br and hope it will become the upgrade for the current 3br reservation (with the preferred dates) or do I wait till 14 days out and reserve one night in the 4br to make that reservation into a 5-night stay when the kids will probably leave a day earlier than DH and I. Consider that the number of additional points for the one extra night is 20,250 plus I incur a RT fee. Also consider that the 3br reservation made on the preferred dates saved me 35,500 points due to discounts and also changing a weekend night to a weeknight, so a total saving of 56,000 points. (I am GF Silver VIP so that’s a pretty good chunk of points for us.). The number of people is 8 (4 adults and 4 kids, age 6 mos, 4-yr old twins and a 6 yr old). A 3br will accommodate us, but it is nice to have the extra br and bathroom, with the 4 young children. However, these extra points could give Us an extra trip in 2019 (our use year ends 9/30 so we have lots of time to use the points).

I still have a couple days to make my decision. What would you do?

Posts like this add to the body of knowledge -- what we know or what we think we know.

 

[chapjim]

My opinion is this: reservations dont come back immediately or on a predictable schedule by design.

The point of the auto upgrade thing was to frustrate the megarenters. I used to be able to make a high value reservation when the reservation window opened 10-13 months in advance, Then at 60 days, cancel and immediately rebook to capture the VIP discount. With auto upgrades the idea was that my cancellation would be someone else's upgrade, and I would lose my high value reservation... Seemed like a perfect solution for wyndham..close the loophole and present it as a new benefit

But if that happened the reservation that was upgraded ought to come back into inventory.... That isnt happening

Also If I made a reservation for a studio or one bedroom (the smallest unit at the resort, when I cancel that; it cant be upgraded into, so it should come back into inventory immediately... That isnt happening either

If either of these two things was happening, reservations would be coming back into inventory and the mega renters would still be able to capture discounts on high value reservations. Wyndham dosent want that so what you see is what you get

The other thing we have to remember is Wyndham deals with nights one at a time. Remember, it used to be that some resorts had limitations on the day of the week you could check in and many of them required three, four, or seven night reservations beginning or ending on a weekend. Now, canceled short reservations can be recombined with other canceled or available short reservations to make a week. I don't know that it is happening but it could.

Let's say one tries to beat the system by booking say, Wednesday-Wednesday so as to make the reservation unique, then cancels and hopes to see it come back. The reservation system doesn't see the cancellation as a Wednesday-Wednesday block. It just sees seven available nights.

I think this is right. Even if it is, I'm not sure what all the implications might be. For sure, the whole deal is much more complicated than it used to be.