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Buying Resale... CWA Versus Low Maintenance Fee UDI?

drepublic

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Ok. You guys have been super helpful to me in my past posts and I appreciate anyone's time who weighs in on this.

I live near Athens, Georgia and have a family of 4 (wife and 2 boys 8 and 11 years old), and we love Orlando and Beaches and prefer Drive-able Vacations 8 hours tops.

I have 326,000 UDI retail points at Clearwater which can get me 1 bedroom Pres Suite for 7 nights on Peak or 2 Bedroom Pres Suite (Sunday through Friday) for 5 nights on peak. Kids spring break for next several years will be spent here.

I have considered getting to VIP but I just don't think I can justify it based on where I travel as I'm having to book well over 2 months out, and I see us getting 2 bedroom suits preferably 1 or 2 bedroom Pres Suites.

Strongly considering Bali Hai resale contract right now for it's low maintenance fees, but is there any big reason to consider CWA resale? Here are the places I'd like to visit in order of importance.

Clearwater or Panama City Beach during Spring Break or Summer Months
Bonnet Creek over Thanksgiving week
Myrtle Beach Ocean Boulevard during the Summer Months
Grand Desert for a concert/event, basically a getaway with wife
A good ski resort out west when my kids get older

Do you guys think I would have any problem getting bookings at 10 months out if I went resale on a low maintenance fee UDI like Bali Hai?

If I wanted presidential suite in the above locations, do you think I would have any problems booking them 10 months out?

What would be an advantage of getting CWA resale over low maintenance fee retail? I have considered Pananama City Beach Resale as well for ARP, and also Myrtle Beach Resale for ARP, but wondering if CWA inventory would be as good as owning at the resort.

I much prefer low maintenance fees in the long term, just wondering if anyone could make the case for CWA resale.
 
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CCdad

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My two cents: most of the locations you want have cheaper MFs than CWA except for Myrtle Beach, although the Bonnet Creek MF is close to the CWA rate. For that reason, I'd vote to buy the Bali Hai Villas resale UDI contract (sometimes their converted fixed weeks have a higher MF rate / 1k point than the straight UDI contract).

I can't speak for getting Presidential units, but you can get two bedroom deluxe units at most of the non-beach resorts at ten months. Bonnet Creek at Christmas is available right now.

My opinion on CWA: Wyndham isn't transparent enough about how much it owns at the popular CWA resorts AND what ARP eligible inventory it's reserving for the CWA owners for me to take a chance on it. If the CWA trust reserves mostly the prime summer and holiday weeks at its beach locations, then the Club Wyndham Select (CWS) owners may take issue about being "locked out" of being able to book ARP for those prime Myrtle Beach, Panama City Beach, Clearwater and Royal Vista summer weeks. If CWA ARP usage is first come, first served: then your ARP desire for a prime summer beach location could have been exhausted by snow birds booking CWA ARP during January - April.

A recent thread about CWS Royal Vista owners having trouble booking ARP for January and early February 2020 begs the question of whether the CWA points owned there were the reason Select owners' ARP privileges weren't available. I doubt it, but Wyndham is not forthcoming about how the CWA trust holds and reserves units with their resort inventory.

I'd personally lock in the resale MF savings that BHV, Canterbury, National Harbor, Steamboat, South Shore, PCB or even the rare Shearwater contracts would provide, then rent the prime summer beach weeks from the ARP owners holding and renting those reservations.

And if you decide VIP is for you, a 167K developer purchase through Corporate direct sales (maybe even consider an equity trade of Clearwater into BHV or Canterbury). Enrolling the PIC limit of two 254K 3 bedroom fixed weeks would be the cheapest route to VIP and you'd get VIP Platinum in the process (with 30 GCs for the 1,001K qualifying developer points).
 

drepublic

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My opinion on CWA: Wyndham isn't transparent enough about how much it owns at the popular CWA resorts AND what ARP eligible inventory it's reserving for the CWA owners for me to take a chance on it.

Thank you for taking the time to offer your insight. These are my thoughts exactly about CWA. I'm thinking UDI owners would have better inventory and pay lower maintenance fees.

A recent thread about CWS Royal Vista owners having trouble booking ARP for January and early February 2020 begs the question of whether the CWA points owned there were the reason Select owners' ARP privileges weren't available. I doubt it, but Wyndham is not forthcoming about how the CWA trust holds and reserves units with their resort inventory.

I bought Clearwater in May 2018 a few months BEFORE it went into Access. My 13 month ARP booking window is approaching for Spring Break 2020 and I'm already seeing the effect of Access Inventory as 1 Bedroom Presidential are booked for March 2020 Spring Breaks. Losing ARP at Clearwater is non negotiable with me ha ha...but I wonder...shouldn't I have BETTER access to inventory than Access points as I have UDI contract at Clearwater? Somehow I get the feeling that UDI owners at resorts with Access inventory will get better inventory (have a better shot at a presidential unit) but maybe I'm wrong. I'm thinking there should be additional benefit for UDI ownders as far as inventory goes compared to CWA but I'm not sure how to verify this or check this.

Not getting exactly what I want for 2020 at Clearwater will make me super pissed off being a retail UDI owner purchasing at Clearwater itself. I'll be up ad midnight or whatever when the time comes to book just to make sure. Going for a 2 bedroom Presidential and I don't think that will be hard since that is a stupid amount of points at Clearwater and I'm guessing most are going 1 Bedroom Presidential Sunday thought Friday.

I'd personally lock in the resale MF savings that BHV, Canterbury, National Harbor, Steamboat, South Shore, PCB or even the rare Shearwater contracts would provide, then rent the prime summer beach weeks from the ARP owners holding and renting those reservations.

Great idea. Rather than me carry the higher maintenance fee costs for ARP at Myrtle Beach or CWA...just rent them for the summer beach trips. I mean I believe Bali Hai is 25% or more less than CWA, so it's like getting the VIP Silver discount year round if I'm thinking about it right.

And if you decide VIP is for you, a 167K developer purchase through Corporate direct sales (maybe even consider an equity trade of Clearwater into BHV or Canterbury). Enrolling the PIC limit of two 254K 3 bedroom fixed weeks would be the cheapest route to VIP and you'd get VIP Platinum in the process (with 30 GCs for the 1,001K qualifying developer points).

I definitely see me getting to VIP at some point in the future...just not right now. We originally ended up at Clearwater over Spring Break as renters from Extra Holidays and paid $600'ish per night for 1 bedroom presidential. I'm paying around $1900 a year on 326,000 UDI Clearwater points that can get me 1 bedroom presidential for 7 nights .

My first purchase with Wyndham happened during that spring break trip above and we bought 200,000 CWA points (and they gave us 300,000 bonus points). A month later we stayed at Star Island "crazy cheap" on a whim trip to Orlando and there we bought into Clearwater UDI with purchase of 126,000 points (and 200,000 equity trade into Clearwater) to get my 326,000 total. if you do the math on my cost of CWA and Clearwater by AVG cost/1000 clearwater UDI was around $177. I wonder if they'll give me this same cost/1000 to buy what I need for silver VIP? That's something I've considered...

I wish I would have bought a few more points to be able to get 6 nights 2 Bedroom Presidential (360 versus 326) I can totally see the financial benefit of lower maintenance fees of trading into Bali Hai retail UDI but then I'd lose ARP at Clearwater and that is non negotiable.

I need to check maintenance fees at Panama City (I think they are lower than CWA) and also check maintenance fees at Myrtle Beach. If going resale route I guess folks tend to buy at locations they want ARP for and also factor in Lower Maintenance Fees?

As for this point in my life...right now I'm looking for just enough resale points to get me Thanksgiving Week at Bonnett Creek as I want to make that a thing with my family...works out well for work vacations days and wife has family in Florida. This year I had a lot of Bonus Points from my original contract expiring and I booked multiple rooms for us and her family...and that is pretty cool thing to do and scored great "goodwill" points with the Mrs. ha ha.

I think for the next 8 years or so my ideal family vacation patters will look like this with my two boys (11 and 8 years old):

Spring Break at some beach (Clearwater or Panama City)
Some mid summer beach trip to Myrtle Beach
Thanksgiving at Bonnett Creek
Every couple of years head out west for a Ski Trip or Hawaii
 
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capital city

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You need to look up the PIC thread. You can get VIP platinum for about 20k since you already own 300k+ points. Also a lot of pic weeks have cheaper mfs then Bali Hai
 

drepublic

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You need to look up the PIC thread. You can get VIP platinum for about 20k since you already own 300k+ points. Also a lot of pic weeks have cheaper mfs then Bali Hai

I guess everyone is at different point in their lives and has different goals.

My goal is to create memories for my family. Having this timeshare in a way forces me to plan family trips in advance and this has helped my marriage and has given us something to look forward to and budget for.

Considering my current situation, I don't think I could come close to using VIP Platinum points in a year as I can only take about 2-3 weeks vacation with my job situation. If were retired maybe, but that is long way off, and I'm not interested in renting points at this time in my life but I'm certainly not above doing it later.

We were given 300,000 bonus points initially over two years and I have spread them out each of the two years and they will be used up by the end of this year. I realized my family could certainly make good use of another 126-150 more points above our 326,000. Right now about 450-500k points is a good sweet spot for my family.

450-500k points is a solid week at Clearwater over Spring Break and a solid Thanksgiving week at Bonnet Creek staying in Presidential Units or two bedroom deluxe units, and my maintenance cost on these points will be around $2500/year for 450'ish points and that could cover 10-14 nights in Presidential units.

What is the maintenance cost on 1,000,000 points? Probably somewhere between $4,500-$7000 depending on where your points are at. I'm not sure I want to put all of my vacation lodging budget Wyndham's basket.

Here's what I mean. In late May I'm taking my wife to Vegas but staying at Encore 6 nights as I like the amenities on site and the EDM DJ's that will be playing at Encore's Beachclub during that time (Chainsmokers, David Guetta, Diplo, Major Lazer all performing at Beachclub during the week of our stay if anyone is curious ha ha).

We'll spend a lot of time at Wynn's pools while we are there. Yes I know I could easily stay at Grand Desert for not a lot of points. My hotel cost is $2200 for these six nights at Encore Panoramic Strip View Suite (750 sq ft) and I'm ok with that as it includes $35 meal credit per day per person for six nights. I just want the location of Encore.

Now if I decide to go to Olympia (big bodybuiding competition in Vegas) or some specific concert for for a short stay and the trip is event driven not at a strip hotel I'll for sure stay at Grand Desert...maybe even sneak over to a nice hotel on off peaks rates. I could easily see a Vegas Trip where my wife and I spend the weekend at Grand Dessert then a few nights in a penthouse during the lower priced weekdays at one of the Strip hotel. Using Wyndham points to shoulder trips and offset costs and get a place to do laundry.

Also being able to rent from Wyndham's Owners or DVC owners with ARP may make more financial sense on years I want a specific location at a specific time versus me carrying the cost of maintenance to obtain the ARP. For example I will for sure go back to Disney World when Star Wars land or whatever it's called opens up at Hollywood Studios in Orlando but I want to stay at Disney's Beachclub for 4-6 nights during this time as I like it's location to Epcot and the pools...and I'll probably reach out to DVC Owners with points at Beachclub for ARP booking.

I get the feeling that some folks with an incredible amount of points may limit their choices to only Wyndham properties as all of their vacation lodging budget is tied up in Wyhnham points except maybe for the savy owners who rent and cover their costs.
 

drepublic

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EDIT: This chart is incorrect for National Harbor. Corrected in another post below.

I just put this together after looking at the maintenance fee sticky for 2019. Really puts things into perspective as to "how bad do you want ARP?" I wanted to know how many points I could get per $1000 spent on yearly maintenance fees looking at different resorts and of course CWA. If you see any holes in my logic or math errors please let me know, but this chart is interesting when you consider all the points spend the same at 10 months out.
 

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drepublic

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Corrected
.
point comparison corrected.png
 

spackler

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It's no secret that Canterbury & Bali Hai are the deeds to possess; usually the eBay auction prices reflect that demand.
 

Silverdollar

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You need to look up the PIC thread. You can get VIP platinum for about 20k since you already own 300k+ points. Also a lot of pic weeks have cheaper mfs then Bali Hai
Yes, there are PIC weeks with cheaper mfs than Bali Hai. I have a 3-Bedroom PIC week worth 254,000 pts with a MF of $3.00/1000. Mine is not available, but I can point you to one at no cost for anyone wanting to go VIP. Just PM me.
 

HitchHiker71

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Inventory for CWS vs CWA bookings during the ARP window is not the same AFAIK. Someone more knowledgeable than I would have to comment as to whether you can combine ARP across CWS and CWA contracts - so for instance if you need more than your 326k Clearwater points for an ARP booking - can CWA ARP be combined? If you were to purchase resale CWA points - it's possible, depending on the answer to my first statement, that you could "see" both CWS and CWA ARP inventory 10-13 months out, but when you actually go to book it, unless you actually have enough CWA points to cover a CWA inventory booking, you may find you cannot book what you want if that inventory falls under CWA and not CWS. I hope this makes sense.

I have found CWA to be of limited value for me for ARP booking, since I only own 210k CWA points (along with 508k PIC points - which are only valid at the usual 10 month or less window). I can see the CWA inventory 13 months out, but I don't have enough CWA points to book a family vacation in a larger room size. Hopefully the booking system allows you to combine your CWS and CWA points for ARP bookings, but I would validate whether this is actually possible before considering any CWA resale purchase, because if for whatever reason it doesn't allow you to combine them, CWA isn't really going to help you out much when attempting to book larger rooms in Clearwater beyond 326k points using ARP.

If you're looking to get ARP for other resorts outside of your CWS UDI Clearwater contract, it might be worth it to you - just ensure that the resorts you want to vacation at regularly are in the CWA HOA.
 

drepublic

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Inventory for CWS vs CWA bookings during the ARP window is not the same AFAIK. Someone more knowledgeable than I would have to comment as to whether you can combine ARP across CWS and CWA contracts - so for instance if you need more than your 326k Clearwater points for an ARP booking - can CWA ARP be combined? If you were to purchase resale CWA points - it's possible, depending on the answer to my first statement, that you could "see" both CWS and CWA ARP inventory 10-13 months out, but when you actually go to book it, unless you actually have enough CWA points to cover a CWA inventory booking, you may find you cannot book what you want if that inventory falls under CWA and not CWS. I hope this makes sense.

This absolutely makes sense. I'd pick up CWA in a heartbeat if I could combine the points for ARP but I'm thinking that is not possible. I wish I bought more points at Clearwater for a full week in 2 Bedroom Presidential. With 326,000 I can get a 1 Bedroom Presidential for a full week and 2 Bedroom Presidential for Sunday through Friday (5 nights), and we'll probably book 2 Bedroom Presidential for Spring Break 2020 and have some points to use elsewhere.

Buying resale for ARP at a resort we like makes sense if we have enough points to book a family vacation. I have strongly considered Panama City as well I did meet my wife there originally, and lot's to do there. I think resale Clearwater is my best move or suck it up and get Silver VIP with more clearwater points...our original plan. I could split 400k Clearwater points with 2 seperate 5 weeknight trips to clearwater in 1 bedroom presidential suites or 2 br deluxes.


I have found CWA to be of limited value for me for ARP booking, since I only own 210k CWA points (along with 508k PIC points - which are only valid at the usual 10 month or less window). I can see the CWA inventory 13 months out, but I don't have enough CWA points to book a family vacation in a larger room size. Hopefully the booking system allows you to combine your CWS and CWA points for ARP bookings, but I would validate whether this is actually possible before considering any CWA resale purchase, because if for whatever reason it doesn't allow you to combine them, CWA isn't really going to help you out much when attempting to book larger rooms in Clearwater beyond 326k points using ARP.

If you're looking to get ARP for other resorts outside of your CWS UDI Clearwater contract, it might be worth it to you - just ensure that the resorts you want to vacation at regularly are in the CWA HOA.

I hear ya, was mainly looking at enough points for Bonnet Creek week of Thanksgiving which is off peak or bonnet creek few nights in summer to shoulder trips to Universal Studios, Orlando attractions, or visit family. Our main family vacation will be at Clearwater for sure or some other beach. My boys are 9 and 11 years old and I'm totally going to re-live my childhood through them ha ha.

We have family in Florida we can visit and have Season Passes to Universal Studios and prefer to stay at On Site Premium Universal Studios hotels (Loews Portofino, Loews Royal Pacific, or Hard Rock) for the Free Express Passes (which cost as much or more than the park ticket) The season pass holders get steep discounts at onsite hotels that make staying at them worth it alone for the Express Passes for all my family members are basically your hotel room key...plus the convenience of the vacation. I'm all about the experience.

If you guys know anyone looking to go to Universal Studios, here's how we make use of our Season Pass and I break down the cost and why I bought it (yes I filmed this on the Balcony at Bonnet Creek ha ha):
 
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Braindead

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whether you can combine ARP across CWS and CWA contracts - so for instance if you need more than your 326k Clearwater points for an ARP booking - can CWA ARP be combined?
No they cannot be combined. They are 2 separate allocations.
You would need to make 2 reservations linking the stay together
1 reservation using CWS allocation and 1 reservation using CWA allocation
 

HitchHiker71

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No they cannot be combined. They are 2 separate allocations.
You would need to make 2 reservations linking the stay together
1 reservation using CWS allocation and 1 reservation using CWA allocation

Yeah that's what I thought as well. Thanks for confirming! :)
 

SabresFan

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No they cannot be combined. They are 2 separate allocations.
You would need to make 2 reservations linking the stay together
1 reservation using CWS allocation and 1 reservation using CWA allocation
I get that this is true for ARP. If you are inside of the 10 month window, then points is points, correct?
 

HitchHiker71

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I get that this is true for ARP. If you are inside of the 10 month window, then points is points, correct?

Correct, our general rule of thumb here on TUG based upon a considerable amount of collective experience and actual use case testing is that points are points within the 10 month window. Only in the ARP window are the rules different depending on what you own.
 

Braindead

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I get that this is true for ARP. If you are inside of the 10 month window, then points is points, correct?
Use the Points Calculator to see your point allocation buckets for any given day. Under 10 months you’ll see a total of all points available in 1 allocation
 
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