• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Buying a Mandatory resort vs Voluntary and trading with preference

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,812
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
It’s
Scottsdale Sonoran Villas Condominiums.

SDO is Scottsdale Pinnacle.

Correct.

I have looked at the WKV (Scottsdale Sonoran) CCRs before - I have a copy stored on BU drive - there was no ROFR when looked into this year’s ago.

The SDO CCRs mistakenly put in Governing Doc for the WKV HOA has the correct file name, but wrong document.
How embarrassing...

Be interesting to see what CCRs they have for the SDO HOA Governing Docs.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,812
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
I contacted VSN/VSE about the incorrect CCRs for WKV on the Vistana Dashboard, and asked the question about the reported ROFR for WKV.

I got an immediate reply that it would be looked into, and they would get back to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,812
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
I contacted VSN/VSE about the incorrect CCRs for WKV on the Vistana Dashboard, and asked the question about the reported ROFR for WKV.

I got an immediate reply that it would be looked into, and they would get back to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Correct CCRs now uploaded to WKV Association Governance Docs.

No ROFR for WKV!
A9FB838C-3440-4EE8-8B36-074F823B3250.jpeg
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,812
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
If there is some kind of change or addendum to the condo declaration, I am failing to find it on the Maricopa County website.

WKV CCRs now uploaded to Governance Docs on Dashboard - most recent copy (June 2019)

No ROFR for WKV clearly stated. Someone is wrong here - either Marriott or Broker.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,355
Reaction score
18,925
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Someone needs to ask the HOA to find out if they amended something. I suspect bad info from Marriott ROFR to the closing agents/brokers if Vistana ROFR has merged departments with the Marriott side.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,355
Reaction score
18,925
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
WKV CCRs now uploaded to Governance Docs on Dashboard - most recent copy (June 2019)

No ROFR for WKV clearly stated. Someone is wrong here - either Marriott or Broker.
Do they upload amendments to the CC&R documents?
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
Someone needs to ask the HOA to find out if they amended something. I suspect bad info from Marriott ROFR to the closing agents/brokers if Vistana ROFR has merged departments with the Marriott side.
I’d have to agree. I called today for something related to interval and the CSR at VSE gave me completely wrong information. I had to politely ask her to double check because my understanding was different (thanks to tug and users like you). After a brief hold, she got back on the line and gave me the correct info and had the matter taken care of the way it should have been automatically. Point is, wrong information being given most likely because of the turnover or familiarity of other systems in the company is a very strong possibility.
 

SabresFan

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
109
Reaction score
37
Points
238
Location
Buffalo, NY
I have requested evidence (CC&R section, Board Resolution) to support their claim of ROFR and we will see what happens. Unfortunately I am not dealing directly with Marriott/Vistana, just a closing agent who has stated that she had experienced the exercise of the ROFR for WKV previously, including prior to the merger/acquisition by Marriott. Maybe it wasn't challenged before, or those effected weren't on TUG.
It's also possible the broker and seller don't care much one way or the other - they get paid the same amount whether you buy it or Marriott buys it. So they're not likely to push back hard against it.
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
You should consider the Kierland shoulder season small one bedroom unit. I own two of them, I used to own two SDO one bedroom units, and they seem to trade the same (I was almost always using the Vistana-to-Vistana preference).

Kierland is mandatory. No ROFR.

MF's = $604; essentially the same as SDO

Cost to purchase = $0 (my most recent cost $351 including escrow fees with a free use year thrown in)

Disadvantage: Kierland is mandatory, so you must pay the VSN fee of ~$150/year. VSN provides an Interval membership, but only for this unit.

Advantages: It trades as a one bedroom (as does SDO). You also get 37000 StarOptions as an alternative. Not a lot, but sometimes useful for topping off another reservation. If you own other VSN units the VSE fee is reduced or waived. Plus my unwarranted and unsubstantiated belief that Kierland will be treated better than SDO in the eventual Marriott/Vistana integration.
That 604 is without the VSN fee I assume? I’m seeing listings on redweek but the maint fees are all over the place from 789 to 950 up to 1100 for a one bedroom. I also want a solid trader, mandatory so I don’t have to pay an additional II account fee. I’d prob unload my EOY 81K 2 bedroom SVV. Maint fee might be slightly higher on the WKV One bedroom 44K SO.
 

vacationtime1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
5,159
Reaction score
2,750
Points
649
Location
San Francisco
Resorts Owned
WKORV-OF (Maui)
WKV x2 (Scottsdale)
That 604 is without the VSN fee I assume? I’m seeing listings on redweek but the maint fees are all over the place from 789 to 950 up to 1100 for a one bedroom. I also want a solid trader, mandatory so I don’t have to pay an additional II account fee. I’d prob unload my EOY 81K 2 bedroom SVV. Maint fee might be slightly higher on the WKV One bedroom 44K SO.

2019 MF = $604 for the small side, $961 for the large side (i.e. the 44000 unit), and $1,565 for the entire two bedroom. Any other MF number is either old and/or includes VSE fees and/or includes ARDA dues (developers' lobby).
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
2019 MF = $604 for the small side, $961 for the large side (i.e. the 44000 unit), and $1,565 for the entire two bedroom. Any other MF number is either old and/or includes VSE fees and/or includes ARDA dues (developers' lobby).
Thanks, I have no idea what the ARDA dues are. Would I pay that if I picked up a resale? I’m looking at a smaller deluxe unit to trade. Prob better than an SDO one bedroom since I wouldn’t have to pay anymore VSN fees or any additional II fees. Would you agree?
 

vacationtime1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
5,159
Reaction score
2,750
Points
649
Location
San Francisco
Resorts Owned
WKORV-OF (Maui)
WKV x2 (Scottsdale)
Thanks, I have no idea what the ARDA dues are. Would I pay that if I picked up a resale? I’m looking at a smaller deluxe unit to trade. Prob better than an SDO one bedroom since I wouldn’t have to pay anymore VSN fees or any additional II fees. Would you agree?

ARDA dues are $5 - $10/unit, are entirely voluntary, are billed such that you must opt of of paying, and something you should never pay. ARDA is the developers' lobby; there is an owners subsection, but when the two are in conflict, the owners lose.

I used to own two SDO traders (small side; one bedroom); I now own two Kierland shoulder season units (small side; one bedroom; 37000 SO's). Either can be obtained for free, MF's are about the same, the mandatory VSE includes an Interval membership, and because I own five mandatory units (omg), the VSE fee is "free".
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
ARDA dues are $5 - $10/unit, are entirely voluntary, are billed such that you must opt of of paying, and something you should never pay. ARDA is the developers' lobby; there is an owners subsection, but when the two are in conflict, the owners lose.

I used to own two SDO traders (small side; one bedroom); I now own two Kierland shoulder season units (small side; one bedroom; 37000 SO's). Either can be obtained for free, MF's are about the same, the mandatory VSE includes an Interval membership, and because I own five mandatory units (omg), the VSE fee is "free".
Aye, I’m up to 5 too looking to add a 6th LOL.
 

DannyTS

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
5,753
Reaction score
3,076
Points
348
We own SVV Bella (mandatory) and we have been very happy with it. I have decided not to add mandatory weeks to our portfolio after the merge and we only bought a Vistana trader and another Vistana resort where we like to go. I do not like the incertitude with mandatory and the premium is less justified than before IMO. If they start an overlay next year the mandatory can be winners if nothing changes or if they automatically get to trade in DC (less likely). But they can be losers if Marriott offers mass enrollment to the Vistana week owners. Not only the availability on SO will suffer, they will just become less interesting for a lot of current Vistana owners who will suddenly have enough weeks enrolled that they will not need to buy any new mandatory.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,812
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
The only uncertainty of VSN Mandatory is here on TUG based on pure conjecture.

There would have to be a massive change (elimination of VSN) to eliminate Mandatory usage - and a complete change of all VSE CCRs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
We own SVV Bella (mandatory) and we have been very happy with it. I have decided not to add mandatory weeks to our portfolio after the merge and we only bought a Vistana trader and another Vistana resort where we like to go. I do not like the incertitude with mandatory and the premium is less justified than before IMO. If they start an overlay next year the mandatory can be winners if nothing changes or if they automatically get to trade in DC (less likely). But they can be losers if Marriott offers mass enrollment to the Vistana week owners. Not only the availability on SO will suffer, they will just become less interesting for a lot of current Vistana owners who will suddenly have enough weeks enrolled that they will not need to buy any new mandatory.
I own mandatory because I like to reserve weeks in the VSN and would most likely continue to do so, even if I could book MVC resorts in an overlay system. To your point, I’ve been thinking about a trader unit now just to exchange in interval. 1. With the hopes of II priority across all brands, 2. To not have to eat up staroptions for other resorts in the VSN. A small SDO should let me trade into WKOVN for much less than using 81K or 148K star options
 

pchung6

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
1,121
Reaction score
571
Points
223
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORVN-OF, SVVx3, SBP, MKO-OV, MWR
A small SDO should let me trade into WKOVN for much less than using 81K or 148K star options

You will only get 1br in WKORV/N. If Nanea bulk deposit continues, which I doubt it will, you will get 2br.
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
You will only get 1br in WKORV/N. If Nanea bulk deposit continues, which I doubt it will, you will get 2br.
Would a WKV 1 bedroom pull more than an SDO 1 bed or a SVV plat 2 bed?

One bedrooms are fine. If I can get a two with an upgrade fee so be it.
 
Last edited:

vacationtime1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
5,159
Reaction score
2,750
Points
649
Location
San Francisco
Resorts Owned
WKORV-OF (Maui)
WKV x2 (Scottsdale)
Would a WKV 1 bedroom pull more than an SDO 1 bed or a SVV plat 2 bed?

One bedrooms are fine. If I can get a two with an upgrade fee so be it.

I don't think so. In fact, I suspect the SVV plat 2 bed would see more.

I used to own a couple of SDO small side one bedroom units and a two bedroom non-lockout SBP. About 95% of the time, they saw the same stuff (the two bedroom unit occasionally saw two bedrooms units that the SDO units did not; this was back in the days of the bulk banks of Hawaii units) .

I dumped the SBP unit because overall it was not worth the incremental cost in MF's for our use pattern.
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
I don't think so. In fact, I suspect the SVV plat 2 bed would see more.

I used to own a couple of SDO small side one bedroom units and a two bedroom non-lockout SBP. About 95% of the time, they saw the same stuff (the two bedroom unit occasionally saw two bedrooms units that the SDO units did not; this was back in the days of the bulk banks of Hawaii units) .

I dumped the SBP unit because overall it was not worth the incremental cost in MF's for our use pattern.
Thanks. That helps me decide if should move an EOY 81K SVV plat 2 in favor of a 1 bedroom deluxe WKV for trading. in both cases I’d get star options.
 
Last edited:

tshd

newbie
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Points
18
Thanks. That helps me decide if should move an EOY 81K SVV plat 2 in favor of a 1 bedroom deluxe WKV for trading. in both cases I’d get star options.
In II are you able to do a dummy search to see what the two one bedroom sides of your SVV can possibly trade for (assuming it's a l/o)?
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,392
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
In II are you able to do a dummy search to see what the two one bedroom sides of your SVV can possibly trade for (assuming it's a l/o)?
Yes. All the same units
 

tshd

newbie
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Points
18
Yes. All the same units
thanks. I'm wondering why buy mandatory if a SDO unit can trade for WKORV and also then why are people giving away SDO units for free or next to nothing?
 
Top