Bitcoin (again)

["Roger"]

Bitcoin has fallen to $4387 having lost over a quarter of its value in the last week. Last December it was at a high of 19,511, but quickly fell to about $13,500 at the start of this year.

For the record, don't consider this posting an I-told-you-so. I am not a reliable prognosticator. I thought bitcoin got too high when it went over $300. I am only posting this in that I know the price of bitcoin has been a topic on this board in the past.

 

[am1]

Did anyone on here buy and at what price?

 

[slip]

Did anyone on here buy and at what price?

I bought only a fraction of a coin at about $2,000. I mostly bought Litecoin and Etherum. I have sold all long ago. Not at the highs(when my wife told me to sell) but I made money.

It is not very stable. I will watch it but don’t know if I will enter the market again.

 

[grab]

Isn’t it about at the came price it was last fall?

 

[plpgma]

I have been extremely wary of Bitcoin and decided very early on to have nothing to do with it. Given the astronomical rise in the initial price, my initial assessment may have been a bit short-sighted -- however I am conservative by nature, so I do not regret my decision and still have no plans to invest in this currency.

 

[WinniWoman]

I never did buy it or any other crypto currency, though I still occasionally think about it.

 

[DrQ]

Can you short it?

 

[DrQ]

BITCOIN PRICE CRASH CAUSES BANKRUPTCY AND MASS CRYPTOCURRENCY MINE CLOSURES

Bitcoin mining operations in the US and China are facing closures after the plummeting price of bitcoin means they may no longer be profitable.

The world's most valuable cryptocurrency is currently trading at around $4,500, having lost almost a third of its value in the space of a week.

Bitcoin mining – the process of generating new units of the cryptocurrency by solving complex puzzles – requires vast amounts of electricity to power the computers performing the calculations.

This means that the profitability of mining falls when bitcoin's price drops, and if the price falls too far then operations may no longer be economically viable.

The biggest casualty so far may be the US-based mining firm Giga Watt, which was forced to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy this week after it was unable to pay debts of around $7 million.

"The corporation and its creditors would best be served by reorganisation of the corporation under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code."

Bitcoin has suffered two major price falls in less than a week, following months of market stability (CoinMarketCap)
The majority of bitcoin mining operations are based in China, where electricity costs are some of the lowest in the world.


Yet despite the cheap electricity, images and videos of mining operations shutting down in the country have been spreading across social media.

Hon Kong-based mining platform Suanlitou announced this week that it was unable to cover electricity fees for a 10-day period in November, according to the South China Morning Post.

Another group of Chinese cryptocurrency miners also reportedly shut down 20,000 mining rigs due to the fall in profitability.

It is not clear what the future holds for the price of bitcoin, with some analysts predicting more falls, while others expect the market to turnaround before the end of the year.

Does this mean they need to cap the wells to stem the flow of 1's and 0's?

 

[MULTIZ321]

As the Bitcoin Price Plummets, Its Dominance Is On the Rise
By Billy Bambrough/ Crypto & Blockchain/ Forbes/ forbes.com

"Bitcoin has had a terrible month, but not as bad as many other major and minor cryptocurrencies it would seem, with bitcoin's share of the total cryptocurrency capitalization, known as its dominance, moving higher throughout November.

The bitcoin price has fallen some 45% so far this month after rival cryptocurrency, bitcoin cash, split in two due to developers and miners failing to reach an agreement over its future, triggering a cryptocurrency sector-wide sell-off that has caused some to question bitcoin's chances of survival.

Bitcoin's dominance has ticked up over the course of the month, however, from lows of 51% in early November to 53% today—highlighting bitcoin's enduring appeal to investors and cryptocurrency miners....."

The bitcoin price has crashed this month, after a civil war in the bitcoin cash cryptocurrency sparked a sudden sell-off. (Photo Illustration by Chesnot/Getty Images)Getty


Richard

 

[WalnutBaron]

This is an excellent article describing the essence of why Bitcoin continues its epic meltdown.

Here's the most operative snippet from the article:

"Since its peak, bitcoin has lost about $700 billion in value. Think of it this way: The early participants in this pyramid have made a lot of money, but other people have lost $700 billion of their money in less than a year.

What caused that price decline? Nothing. That’s the same reason why bitcoin was once worth $19,650, or $15,144, or any amount.

I discussed this subject with a colleague last week, and she and I agreed that bitcoins are hard to write about. Why? Because bitcoins are the epitome of “thin air” investments. They represent nothing — not a piece of a company, or an ounce of precious metal or the faith in a country.

It’s like writing about philosophy. Bitcoin is a thought. And thoughts have value only if other people value them.

And bitcoin continues to be worth something only if its proponents can convince others to jump on board with the idea and bid up the price.

That’s the definition of a confidence game. You have to be confident that someone is dumb enough to keep investing in this scam."

 

[plpgma]

This is an excellent article describing the essence of why Bitcoin continues its epic meltdown.

Here's the most operative snippet from the article:

"Since its peak, bitcoin has lost about $700 billion in value. Think of it this way: The early participants in this pyramid have made a lot of money, but other people have lost $700 billion of their money in less than a year.

What caused that price decline? Nothing. That’s the same reason why bitcoin was once worth $19,650, or $15,144, or any amount.

I discussed this subject with a colleague last week, and she and I agreed that bitcoins are hard to write about. Why? Because bitcoins are the epitome of “thin air” investments. They represent nothing — not a piece of a company, or an ounce of precious metal or the faith in a country.

It’s like writing about philosophy. Bitcoin is a thought. And thoughts have value only if other people value them.

And bitcoin continues to be worth something only if its proponents can convince others to jump on board with the idea and bid up the price.

That’s the definition of a confidence game. You have to be confident that someone is dumb enough to keep investing in this scam."

My thoughts exactly!

 

[b2bailey]

I am not personally interested in Bit Coin, and I have to admit I am clueless about it. Can someone give me a "Bit Coin for dummies" explanation which possibly includes a sales pitch?

 

[Brett]

What caused that price decline? Nothing. That’s the same reason why bitcoin was once worth $19,650, or $15,144, or any amount.

I discussed this subject with a colleague last week, and she and I agreed that bitcoins are hard to write about. Why? Because bitcoins are the epitome of “thin air” investments. They represent nothing — not a piece of a company, or an ounce of precious metal or the faith in a country.

It’s like writing about philosophy. Bitcoin is a thought. And thoughts have value only if other people value them.

And bitcoin continues to be worth something only if its proponents can convince others to jump on board with the idea and bid up the price.

That’s the definition of a confidence game. You have to be confident that someone is dumb enough to keep investing in this scam."

I wouldn't invest in bitcoins but some observers indicate it has a role in certain situations and the "blockchain" technology is used in other areas, for example, banking

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain


(from a recent Wall Street Journal article)

"In countries with high inflation, or an otherwise unstable fiat currency, people can’t trust that the government-backed fiat currency will hold its value, and they seek an alternative, such as gold. bitcoin can fill this need in the future. Bitcoin enables secure, arm’s-length transactions between two unknown parties, the bar required to function as a payment system. And bitcoin is decentralized and open-source, enabling it to morph and adapt to new usage requirements"

 

[MULTIZ321]

Bitcoin Derivatives That Cost $1 Million Will Soon Be Worthless
By Gregor Stuart Hunter/ Cryptocurrencies/ Bloomberg/ bloomberg.com

"The biggest-ever bet on Bitcoin options is about to expire worthless.

Purchased for almost $1 million on LedgerX’s trading platform just days after Bitcoin peaked a year ago, the call options have a strike price of $50,000 and an expiry date of Dec. 28, 2018. For the contracts to retain any value at expiry, Bitcoin would need to rally more than 1,200 percent.

The options’ almost certain wipeout is a less-than-ideal outcome for the buyer, but it may not be quite as bad as it seems.


Ari Paul, a cryptocurrency fund manager at BlockTower Capital, has indicated that he bought the options while simultaneously selling some of his fund’s Bitcoin holdings. In a December 2017 interview with CNBC, Paul said the trade allowed him to lock-in some profit, reduce exposure to market declines and potentially earn a big payout if Bitcoin soared above $50,000....."

Richard

 

[grab]

Bitcoin is extremely speculative. High risk for hopefully high returns. Go big or go home as they say.

Option trading is also extremely speculative.

Combine the two and holy cow is that a lot of risk.

Payback COULD be huge but any bet on options of Bitcoin better be the alternative of your lottery money. A lot riskier than casino money and certainly not worthy of actual investment money IMO.

 

[billymach4]

Investment was made knowing I could afford to lose. Technical loss not yet acheived since I have not sold. Went in at $750 last year. Now under $100. Could be worse. Like if I had bought a Wastegate in Orlando. At this point just going to hold on. No sense in taking the loss. Just taking a ride.

 

[Sapper]

.

It’s like writing about philosophy. Bitcoin is a thought. And thoughts have value only if other people value them.

One might say the same thing about paper currency. A $1 or $100 bill is only worth what you and I agree it is worth.

 

[DrQ]

One might say the same thing about paper currency. A $1 or $100 bill is only worth what you and I agree it is worth.

That's why I bought gold coins, but I made more money off gold SPDR

 

[grab]

One might say the same thing about paper currency. A $1 or $100 bill is only worth what you and I agree it is worth.

Or, to tie it to TUG, a timeshare is only worth what you and I agree it is worth.

There is a play with bitcoin almost every week that if made could make you 5-10% profit. But what goes up often comes down.

 

[Sapper]

That's why I bought gold coins, but I made more money off gold SPDR

I think of physical gold as a store of wealth while the GLD SPDR a quasi investment vehicle if you can make the trades work in your favor.

 

[bogey21]

I have a stache of gold and silver coins (1/10 oz gold and 1 oz silver). Enough to purchase essentials if Armageddon vis-a-vis paper money. I look at it like buying an insurance policy, pay for it and hope never to use it...

George

 

[Sapper]

Or, to tie it to TUG, a timeshare is only worth what you and I agree it is worth.

There is a play with bitcoin almost every week that if made could make you 5-10% profit. But what goes up often comes down.

Could not agree more. eBay auctions prove that out daily.

Too much volitality for me. I'm sure someone has figured out how to short it and made a mint over the last 12 months.

 

[DrQ]

Seems like we Texas people think alike

 

[bluehende]

I have a stache of gold and silver coins (1/10 oz gold and 1 oz silver). Enough to purchase essentials if Armageddon vis-a-vis paper money. I look at it like buying an insurance policy, pay for it and hope never to use it...

George

I know this is always the plan. I have wondered if this would actually work. If a true collapse comes you cannot eat gold. I have always thought that no one would trade their case of canned goods or a weapon for a shiny coin. I imagine that the level of collapse will have a lot to do with this. If it is perceived as temporary then the store of perceived future value will be good. In a total collapse with no near term recovery gold would be worthless. This is not an experiment I want to try. I am guessing being a walking dead fan gets you thinking of things that you would not normally. At this point the best thing to have is a stash of ready cash as the good old green back will be the best thing to hold for any scenario that we are likely to face.

 

[DrQ]

I know this is always the plan. I have wondered if this would actually work. If a true collapse comes you cannot eat gold. I have always thought that no one would trade their case of canned goods or a weapon for a shiny coin.

That would not be my plan. I would have the capability to brew beer and distill moonshine. That's currency.

You can store corn and wheat in 6 Gal buckets mixed with diatomaceous earth to keep out bugs. It will keep forever. Hopps present a problem, but you can have seed and rotate pellets to keep them fresh.