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bHC vs HGVC

Discussion in 'Hilton Grand Vacations Club / HGVC' started by 4Sunsets, Apr 27, 2019.

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  1. frank808

    frank808 TUG Member

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    It is actually in the Waikiki district. It is being built on the site of the former Kings Village shopping complex. Across the street from the Sheraton Princess Kaiulani hotel.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
    ljmiii likes this.
  2. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    Interesting.. another broken rule in the system.

    This error provides an advantage to West 57th Street owners since all online documentation indicates the 15 day “By Hilton Club Priority Window” only applies to the Residences and the District. I'm assuming vice versa as well - they have earlier access to West 57th inventory. :cool:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  3. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Why is this an advantage? W57 has always been a By Hilton Club. I would assume that other bHCs get an early window into W57. Just as they aligned the windows from 45 days to 60 days, they are simplifying and aligning the bHC system in preparation for the new bHC property additions. It's smart management.

    I believe they learned their lesson with HCNY that having a program with different rules can cause owner dissatisfaction and increases costs of training, documentation etc. because of complications which don't add any value. That reduction of OH cost is good for everyone.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  4. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    You’re missing the point. There has been no official revision of the stated rules.

    The new 2019 rules state all “By Hilton Clubs” will be available to all owners at 60 days. and only Only the Residence and District will have access to each other’s inventory at 75 days. The OP’s post shows that the online system isn’t enforcing the rules correctly (it’s currently including West 57th).

    The new 2019 rules are stated in the
    (1) Mailings that were sent out
    (2) Official announcement on the website
    (3) 2019 Club Rules documentation
    (4) 2019 Reservation Window documentation

    5/3 Revised post to make it clearer.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  5. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    According to this chart , that doesn't seem to be the case. This says that bHC has a 74-60 day additional window at Residences and District, and W. 57th is a bHC property. However, it is also clear that it is not reciprocal.

    Seems that the rules are being enforced this way.

    Cheers.
     
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  6. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    That’s document #4 on my list but take a closer look at the headings for each section.
    The 2nd section applies to West 57th (not the 3rd).

    BC42F54D-E913-4309-AC78-C4D8D70F326C.jpeg
     
  7. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    The sections apply to trading into those places. So, according to the 3rd section all bHC can trade into Residences and District at 74 days. That includes W. 57th folks. The 2nd says that there is no such bHC window at W. 57th, and I believe that is what is being upheld by the system.

    Cheers.
     
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  8. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    No, I’m sorry it doesn’t.

    From Document #3, the 2019 CLUB RULES
    By Hilton Club Priority exchange is a reciprocal priority exchange window where owners at HC Suites and TD Suites exchange into each other’s property during a fifteen (15)day reciprocal exchange window without competing with members who do not own an interest at those resorts .

    HC Suites is The Residence by Hilton Club
    TD Suites is The District by Hilton Club


    C71461C9-3618-45D1-8A3A-9B33B5DA9E9B.png

    082720CF-F059-4865-A9ED-951D63BAACE9.png
     
  9. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    Yup. I see what you're saying based on the documents. However, the chart is pretty clear as well and the website seems to be enforcing the chart. It clearly says "by Hilton Club Priority Window" in the Residences and District box. And W. 57th is unquestionably a "by Hilton Club" property. So the chart is not consistent with the wording you included. And they are enforcing the chart.

    Cheers.
     
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  10. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    Sorry, that’s not correct.

    The “By Hilton Club Priority Window” didn’t change this year . The chart and definition is still the same as before. The only rule change for 2019 that impacted West 57th owners was the Club Season window increased from 45 days to 60 days as stated in the original announcement .

    See the previous chart and definition below. I’ve attached the full document.

    6B4BCE4D-0274-4537-B082-08592F4DCCAC.png

    70C32D4C-CC0B-4FD0-AF83-E4DDFE760BC9.png 6906F134-B270-4AAB-BEDD-036F09F18AD3.png

    05F962AD-5083-4C31-90A1-332881878493.png

    I guess for West 57th owners, it’s the first time you guys have experienced exclusion.

    As a regular HGVC owner, I’ve just gotten used to it. We first got completely shutout of the Hilton Club New York. Then we got an extremely short reservation window to future Hilton Club Resort (with introduction of West 57th Street and now the others). Then they cut back the Club Reservation from 9 months to 6 months at select resorts.

    Well it’s time for me to get to bed. It’s midnight on the East Coast.

    Have a good night.:hi:
     

    Attached Files:

    4Sunsets likes this.
  11. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    These document rules are clearly outdated because it does not even reflect the new 60 day club windows. That's the problem with making things complicated. It adds a lot of unnecessary overhead to keep everything in synch and confuses the customer (and HGVC apparently too).

    The chart referred by @brp indicates ALL bHC. How can W57 not be part of bHC when it is in the title?


    upload_2019-5-3_8-46-29.png
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  12. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    BTW... this bHC window discussion is somewhat moot. W57 and other bHC owners have very little incentive to stay at the other NYC properties because they don't get lounge privileges like their home bHC resort.

    I may use District once a decade, but would reserve with a cancellable hotel reservation at the Embassy Suites downstairs and try to use HGVC Club points during club window. The lounge doesn't matter because we would use the Embassy Suites breakfast which is better anyway. However the suites in the District are much nicer than the hotel but same layout.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  13. tombanjo

    tombanjo TUG Member

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    I can understand the no lounge access at HCNY as it really is a one off kind of club, but moving forward, I would think reciprocal lounge access between the "real" bHC properties would be a sales advantage. It's not like they would be over run, as the same number of people stay in each room regardless of affiliation. People won't be wandering off the street to burn English muffins in the toaster. Your maintenance fees are paying for lounge access at your home resort though you are slumming in DC or Chicago, or across the street at the Quin.
     
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  14. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    +1 Totally agree that reciprocal would be nice.

    FWIW...During a recent presentation the rep indicated that they are exploring a new bHC elite level and one of the perks is reciprocal lounge.
     
  15. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    It looks like HGVC is trying to address the confusion through their Workshops and Webinars as well.

    The page below is from their April 16, 2019 Online Member Education Webinars - https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/help/club-member-education-webinars

    I’ve also attached the HGV Club Membership: Essentials Webinar handbook.

    12C0FB7F-A340-4548-9F2C-97284786A305.png

    NOTE:The 2019 Reservation Window document is just like the chart that was 1st shared back in our 2017 Club Rules (link). The diagram and definitions are still the same except for the interval changes which became effective for all BHCs on January 1, 2019. Those changes can found in this TUG thread - link .
     
    4Sunsets likes this.
  16. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

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    I don’t see how that would be possible. A bHC elite owner getting lounge access to “MY” lounge meaning I have to pay for his meals. On the other hand I don’t get the same access because I’m not bHC elite. The access would be ok IF hgvc pays for his access to the lounge. Otherwise I see grounds for a lawsuit.
     
  17. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Good point. This is a fuzzy issue between the ability of HGVC club to change rules and the rights of an HOA. If there is no reciprocity with bHC that is a problem. How can HGVC add burden to an HOA for an expense by non-owners without a vote by the HOA to absorb the expense?
     
  18. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    First, there is no "exclusion" as I can book Residences/District at 85 days, in accordance with the chart I posted (which is contradicted by some of your information). So, they are doing as I expect, and I would get the full 75-day bHC window.

    Second, as @CalGalTraveler points out, I'd be unlikely to book away from W. 57th so, even should they change the rules again, it would not impact me.

    But, for now, W. 57th folks get the expected 75-day window at other bHC properties.

    Cheers.
     
  19. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Yikes, I just realized in my previous post that I didn’t attached the handbook from HGVC’s webinar last month :doh:
    I’ve attached it below for future reference.;)


    For those who don’t know or haven’t been around the HGVC forums for long,

    Let’s just say, the online reservation system isn’t perfect. HGV has had system challenges implementing their exception logic.
    In 2017, HGV took corrective action to address a reservation system loophole which impacted some owners. See threads below.

     

    Attached Files:

  20. David Sa

    David Sa Guest

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    Hi all... I have a question about the amenities that come with this location(west 57th street, NYC) for a resale owner if anyone could answer with absolute certainty please do, thanks in advance! Will a owner who purchases on a resale be allowed to stay for a single night or is there a 3 night minimum? If they do allow a single night or two will there be a cleaning charge to a owner who purchases on a resale? P.S. not sure if this is the place to pose my question so if not please lmk, thanks again.
     
  21. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    Great place for this question. As a resale owner at W. 57th, I can answer definitively.

    Resale owners are treated no differently here from direct purchasers (except for having a bunch more money in our pockets :)):

    1 night is the minimum
    Cleaning charge ($85 + tax) is charged for stays of 3 nights or fewer.

    The above applies to resale and direct.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  22. David Sa

    David Sa Guest

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    Hey here's another for you Chees, or anyone else... do you have a guesstimate of what the minimum purchase price should be to purchase a resale at West 57th street without Hilton exercising their ROFR? (and how the closing cost become a factor, for example a $10,000 purchase is comprised of $4500 cl.cost leaving $5500 actual purchase, approx.)
    Thanks, Dave.
     
  23. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

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    $4,500 closing costs sounds expensive:-(
     
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  24. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    check out ROFR.net. Also ROFR will decline near the end of the year when budgets run dry and if they have excessive inventory with new properties to sell and want to keep inventory managed for Wall St.

    BTW...both resale and developer (and their guests) get lounge privileges. Non-owners who trade via club, or from other bHC properties, or RCI do not.
     
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  25. David Sa

    David Sa Guest

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    Thanks for your response...you said "ROFR will decline near the end of the year " does that mean it's more likely to have a purchase for less money go through at the end of the year?
     

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