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Apollo Group looking to buy HGVC [Merged]

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CalGalTraveler

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That's okay. II is even better. Trades for Marriotts, Hyatts, and Westins.

(We have to bear in mind that these are first world problems.)
 
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GT75

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The more important journalistic question in my mind is why some other, legitimate and more traditional financial publications have not been able to put a story together on this.

I actually am wondering the same thing. I think that now we are the only ones keeping this story alive.
 

terces

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We had an "owners update" at MarBrisa Carlsbad today. The salesperson was less than fully knowledgable and/or dishonest on a few topics, but when I asked her about the newspaper articles about a buyer for HGVC, she was very emphatic that it would not happen, "no way would Hilton let someone buy their resort from them after developing all of the special hotels from Conrad to Waldorf etc"
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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No RCI option for Club Diamond members. Diamond are real SOBs when it comes to exchange options. They will not work with anyone other then II. I cannot even make a reservation with my points and deposit that confirmed reservation.
Yep. That's part of the rules of the Club.

When you join your membership to the Club, you explicitly assign to the Club the reservation rights associated with your membership. It's described in the paperwork you get when you join the Club. In exchange you get the right to use your points to make Club reservations. That's good in that it allows you to use your points to reserve Club units worldwide, without going through an exchange company and without paying an exchange fee. It's bad in that the only way to use your points outside the Club is via the Club, which only works with II.

**********

If you want to be able to use your points to make reservations without being subject to the rules of the Club, then you need to pull your ownership out of the Club. You can do that anytime. You will also no longer pay the annual club fee.

Your usage rights will then be determined by the underlying usage rights in your ownership. So you might find that even outside the Club, there are limitations that are inherent in your underlying ownership. For example, if we were to pull our deeded Poipu week out of the Club, we could use the week in RCI. But the resort timeshare arrangement with RCI is a bulk banking program, in which owners do not get to select the week to deposit with RCI. Rather the resort banks weeks directly with RCI, and when a member makes an RCI exchange, on the resort bulk banked weeks is assigned to the account. Note that this is not a Diamond restriction - this was put in place at the time that Poipu was first developed as a timeshare property.
 

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We had an "owners update" at MarBrisa Carlsbad today. The salesperson was less than fully knowledgable and/or dishonest on a few topics, but when I asked her about the newspaper articles about a buyer for HGVC, she was very emphatic that it would not happen, "no way would Hilton let someone buy their resort from them after developing all of the special hotels from Conrad to Waldorf etc"

BS from sales rep. No one would be buying “their resort from them.” Hilton hotels spun off HGV a few years ago, so they don’t have anything to sell (or not sell). HGV is its own company now. No longer part of Hilton.
 

escanoe

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Neither do I.

Everyone in this thread is spending time worrying about all the minor things.

The main thing to me is I don’t want us to have to merge our TUG HGVC group with all those whiny people over in the DRI group.... ALL THEY DO is complain about their timeshare company. I am also a big fan of @GT75 and don’t want him to have to scrap it out to keep his moderator status. ;)

Ok. That is mostly in jest (all except for my praise of @GT75), but I couldn’t hold it back. I do think we are getting WAAAAAY ahead of ourselves here, but thinking it out gives us better perspective in relation to what MIGHT happen.
 
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T_R_Oglodyte

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We had an "owners update" at MarBrisa Carlsbad today. The salesperson was less than fully knowledgable and/or dishonest on a few topics, but when I asked her about the newspaper articles about a buyer for HGVC, she was very emphatic that it would not happen, "no way would Hilton let someone buy their resort from them after developing all of the special hotels from Conrad to Waldorf etc"
There have been many occasions over the years in which Diamond (and other) timeshare sales people have been emphatic about things that would (or would not) happen:

1. By the time of our visit next year, Kaanapali and Poipu would be branded Hilton resorts; the papers are done and are just waiting to be signed.
2. By the time of our next visit, there will be a Diamond Resort in Hilo.
3. By the time of our next visit, construction will be underway on the new Diamond Resort in Kona.
4. The Hawaii Collection was created to hold Hawaii resorts separate from mainland resorts. It would never include more than mainland resorts so that Hawaii owners could be sure that mainland owners would not be able to reserve in Hawaii before the 10-month window.
5. By the time of our next visit, the Blue Green resorts will be part of Diamond.
6. Hawaii just passed a law that makes it illegal for any owner to list a property with AirBnB or VRBO, regardless of whether the owner has a vacation rental permit for the property.
 

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I actually am wondering the same thing. I think that now we are the only ones keeping this story alive.

I think if there was no truth at all to the report HGV would have issued a denial by now given the market reaction and the fact it’s driving up other timeshare stocks too. Not saying anything will happen, but no denial makes me think the proposal from Apollo may have been real. If that is the case, I wouldn’t expect official comment until either a deal is announced or HGV makes it official they are either not for sale or are pursuing another deal. These things can sometimes take weeks or months to play out.
 

pianodinosaur

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Everyone in this thread is spending time worrying about all the minor things.

The big thing to me is I don’t want us to have to merge our TUG HGVC group with all those whiny people over in the DRI group.... ALL THEY DO is complain about their timeshare company. I am also a big fan of @GT75 and don’t want him to have to scrap it out to keep his moderator status. ;)

Ok. That is mostly in jest (all except for my praise of @GT75), but I couldn’t hold it back. I do think we are getting WAAAAAY ahead of ourselves here, but thinking it out gives us better perspective in relation to what CAN happen.

I agree that we are getting Waaay Ahead of ourselves and we don’t need to be jumping to conclusions. However, I have enjoyed learning from our fellow Tuggers who own at DRI.
 

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What's interesting is that on the FB HGVC *Owners* group there's at least one lady who claims DRI never increased MF that much and that it's basically a good thing if this happens. I gave up, but without any actual hard-numbers (I guess I'd have to see if there's a DRI group on TUG and see if they have their MF listing like we do here in this forum).

The only "hardcore" evidence I have is that the quality of DRI resorts (excluding the intrawest ones which apparently are Embarc and "separate" from DRI sorta) are that they are NOT up to the quality of HGVC (that Kaanapali one does not look appealing at all).
 

SmithOp

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DRI quality is not that bad IMO, maybe 3.5 stars to HGVC 4 stars. I’ve stayed at Kaanapali and several in Sedona and was very comfortable.

I would welcome the additional resorts to HGVC portfolio, its the reason I keep an Interval membership to pick up DRI locations for cash getaways or ACs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

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What's interesting is that on the FB HGVC *Owners* group there's at least one lady who claims DRI never increased MF that much and that it's basically a good thing if this happens. I gave up, but without any actual hard-numbers (I guess I'd have to see if there's a DRI group on TUG and see if they have their MF listing like we do here in this forum).

The only "hardcore" evidence I have is that the quality of DRI resorts (excluding the intrawest ones which apparently are Embarc and "separate" from DRI sorta) are that they are NOT up to the quality of HGVC (that Kaanapali one does not look appealing at all).

We used to own DRI, at Kaanapali, but sold in 2014. Kaanapali Beach Club would be a notch or two below the Marriott and Westin resorts on Maui (which are both comparable to HGVC) and the location is so-so on a mediocre beach. It is really in Honokowai, not Kaanapali. The only other DRI resort I recall is Grand Beach in Orlando when our kids were young, and it was brand new at the time, so was nice. We also stayed at the DRI Ridge on Sedona in May 2018 on an RCI trade and while "comfortable" was clearly a couple notches below any HGVC or Marriott we've stayed at. Cheaper furnishings, inadequate electrical outlets, and very basic amenities. It felt more like a residential condo than a resort.

Once DRI took over Kaanapali Beach Club, our maintenance fees sometimes jumped 8-9% a year. When we sold in 2014, our annual maintenance fee for a 2BR was $2041, but at the same time Marriott's Maui Ocean Club was $1972 for a better location and much better resort.
 

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I just "leafed through" the DRI forum. There are a lot of DRI owners that are not very happy. I really hope HGVC can pull away from this bunch.
 

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I’ve had a little time to digest the possibility of this “merger” and it seems I’m on the other end of the Marriott/SVN merger (we’re Marriott owners). The chairman of Apollo appears to be the former chairman of HGVC. It was S. Cloobeck when he ran DRI that jacked fee’s into the stratosphere and made the product overpriced (IMHO) for the product. So we left.

Like the SVN situation, those owners might have the option to pick additional locations thru MVC, just like HGVC owners might be able to pick up DRI locations. And similarly SVN owners seem to view Marriott as not equal quality or want the extra location options. And like some of the SVN owners I’m not excited about adding the DRI locations and I’m concerned about ramifications to what we own and enjoy.

For us, we use our HGVC ownership to stay at Elara nearly exclusively at this time (things change of course). Unless DRI jacks the rates we likely won’t change things. We REALLY enjoy our stays at Elara. We dropped our DRI ownership at the Silver Elite level a few years back so, I don’t anticipate joint DRI’s Club product. Thus probably not a great deal of change for us.

IF the merger or buyout takes place (and that’s a big if at this point) it opens options for HGVC owners more than it will for DRI owners. Will they want those options? That’s a good question. For most TUGGERS I suspect not. For the average timeshare owner it may be attractive, at least on the surface.

So we’ll keep things as they are, listen to their sales pitch if the merger happens and take their money. We’ll hope the MF’s don’t sky rocket but, unlike when DRI took over Sunterra, there’s not a lot of work that needs to be done (some Sunterra resorts were getting way behind on maintenance issues).

So oddly enough, I now see better how SVN owners view the merger and integration of their ownerships into MVC. With HGVC, the shoes now on the other foot for me.
 

CalGalTraveler

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I’ve had a little time to digest the possibility of this “merger” and it seems I’m on the other end of the Marriott/SVN merger (we’re Marriott owners). The chairman of Apollo appears to be the former chairman of HGVC. It was S. Cloobeck when he ran DRI that jacked fee’s into the stratosphere and made the product overpriced (IMHO) for the product. So we left.

Interesting info. What is the name of the executive that was the former chairman of HGVC? The Apollo chairman listed on their site is not the guy you are referring to.

Here is the current CEO of Diamond. Looks like he was with Starwood at one point in his career.

Mike Flaskey has more than 25 years of executive leadership experience in public and privately-held companies, with a key focus on growth-oriented companies within the real estate and vacation ownership industry. Throughout his tenure at Diamond Resorts, the company has achieved unprecedented growth both organically and through strategic acquisition integration. Mike has shifted the traditional timeshare marketing and sales model to an innovative, hospitality-infused process that includes a high-touch upstream engagement stance, thus providing owners and guests with a service-first approach. Diamond’s leading experiential model is revolutionizing the vacation ownership industry as a whole.

Mike has overseen, developed and delivered strategic partnerships and relationships with numerous prominent sporting and entertainment professionals that resulted in the creation and growth of our innovative Events of a Lifetime® franchise, the Diamond concert series and, most notably, the Diamond Resorts Tournament of Champions™, a nationally televised LPGA Tournament of Champions/celebrity golf tournament that will be broadcast on NBC and Golf Channel. The tournament, previously known as the Diamond Resorts Invitational, has a strong philanthropic arm and – as of January 2018 – has raised over 3.1 million of charitable dollars for Florida Hospital for Children.

Prior to Diamond Resorts, Mike held senior executive roles with Starwood Vacation Ownership and Fairfield Resorts (now Wyndham Vacation Ownership). He has a track record of recruiting and developing top talent and is a culture-conscious, performance-driven executive with a history of excellent results while always placing guest satisfaction first.

Mike holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Physical Education from Limestone College.
I would be interested in hearing from Diamond owners if they have seen an improvement since Cloobeck left?
 
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dougp26364

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Interesting info. What is the name of the executive that was the former chairman of HGVC? The Apollo chairman listed on their site is not the guy you are referring to.

Here is the current CEO of Diamond. Looks like he was with Starwood at one point in his career.

Mike Flaskey has more than 25 years of executive leadership experience in public and privately-held companies, with a key focus on growth-oriented companies within the real estate and vacation ownership industry. Throughout his tenure at Diamond Resorts, the company has achieved unprecedented growth both organically and through strategic acquisition integration. Mike has shifted the traditional timeshare marketing and sales model to an innovative, hospitality-infused process that includes a high-touch upstream engagement stance, thus providing owners and guests with a service-first approach. Diamond’s leading experiential model is revolutionizing the vacation ownership industry as a whole.

Mike has overseen, developed and delivered strategic partnerships and relationships with numerous prominent sporting and entertainment professionals that resulted in the creation and growth of our innovative Events of a Lifetime® franchise, the Diamond concert series and, most notably, the Diamond Resorts Tournament of Champions™, a nationally televised LPGA Tournament of Champions/celebrity golf tournament that will be broadcast on NBC and Golf Channel. The tournament, previously known as the Diamond Resorts Invitational, has a strong philanthropic arm and – as of January 2018 – has raised over 3.1 million of charitable dollars for Florida Hospital for Children.

Prior to Diamond Resorts, Mike held senior executive roles with Starwood Vacation Ownership and Fairfield Resorts (now Wyndham Vacation Ownership). He has a track record of recruiting and developing top talent and is a culture-conscious, performance-driven executive with a history of excellent results while always placing guest satisfaction first.

Mike holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Physical Education from Limestone College.
I would be interested in hearing from Diamond owners if they have seen an improvement since Cloobeck left?
I was reading from the article posted in the link in the original post on this thread. Wouldn’t be the first time I misread something
 

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- especially with a recession on the horizon.

You may be right after all. The huge escalation in trade war rhetoric today may have increased the odds the trade issue spills over into the domestic economy.
 

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I was reading from the article posted in the link in the original post on this thread. Wouldn’t be the first time I misread something

It’s the CFO of Diamond who used to be with HGVC. Not the CEO or Chairman. He’s the guy HGV fired for some sort of improper behavior.
 

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He’s the guy HGV fired for some sort of improper behavior.

Like maybe at some point he talked to a potential Direct Purchase customer and told the truth? I can see how that might be treated as improper behavior in this industry...

Cheers.
 

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What's interesting is that on the FB HGVC *Owners* group there's at least one lady who claims DRI never increased MF that much and that it's basically a good thing if this happens. I gave up, but without any actual hard-numbers (I guess I'd have to see if there's a DRI group on TUG and see if they have their MF listing like we do here in this forum).

The only "hardcore" evidence I have is that the quality of DRI resorts (excluding the intrawest ones which apparently are Embarc and "separate" from DRI sorta) are that they are NOT up to the quality of HGVC (that Kaanapali one does not look appealing at all).

Here is more data than you will probably want, from our own TUGGER @youppi

Maintenance Fees since 2007
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jo0_ti3h8ZWy41VCCeaFLfpHqZKe38zADMPFQ9lDfg8/pubhtml#

A detailed history of the company
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WXE5rnFgWaPKJdByFs6kAUjkXWLhpwmq4pB8OuepK30/pubhtml#
 

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We used to own DRI, at Kaanapali, but sold in 2014. Kaanapali Beach Club would be a notch or two below the Marriott and Westin resorts on Maui (which are both comparable to HGVC) and the location is so-so on a mediocre beach. It is really in Honokowai, not Kaanapali. The only other DRI resort I recall is Grand Beach in Orlando when our kids were young, and it was brand new at the time, so was nice. We also stayed at the DRI Ridge on Sedona in May 2018 on an RCI trade and while "comfortable" was clearly a couple notches below any HGVC or Marriott we've stayed at. Cheaper furnishings, inadequate electrical outlets, and very basic amenities. It felt more like a residential condo than a resort.

Diamond has about 100 managed resorts in Club Diamond. About 30 or 35 are in Europe. If you look in the II catalog only one of Diamond's resorts has the II Elite status. That is the Cabo Azul location. At lest half of the Marriott resorts have the II Elite Status. Diamond also owns the nine Embarc resorts and they are all II Elite locations. But Embarc is run separately from the Diamond Club.
 

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@nuwermj As a Diamond owner have you seen any improvements in customer treatment and fees since Cloosbeck left as CEO? It hard to discern complaints from owners when they were bringing properties up to standard that have been under-funded in MF and reserves, and the tactics for Cloosbeck, from the new regime.
 
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I would be interested in hearing from Diamond owners if they have seen an improvement since Cloobeck left?

I would say "no". Cloobeck stepped down as CEO in 2014. David Palmer was President and CEO while the company was publicly traded, Cloobeck was Chairmen of the Board. Much of what we would call the DRI image today was created under Palmer. The new guy, Michael Flaskey, is a washed out minor league baseball player who worked his way up from a timeshare sales floor. He knows how to work the "old-boys" network and currently he is good at rallying the troops and pushing PR. But there is no way Flaskey survives in a merger or an IPO. He doesn't have the ability to create a successful business strategy. In 2016 Apollo appointed a President at Diamond who was the strategy guy. He retired last October and has not been replaced.
 

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@nuwermj As a Diamond owner have you seen any improvements in customer treatment and fees since Cloosbeck left as CEO? It hard to discern complaints from owners when they were bringing properties up to standard that have been under-funded in MF and reserves, and the tactics for Cloosbeck, from the new regime.

The last two years there has been a concerted effort inside Diamond to hold the line on fee increases. Someone, Apollo or someone inside Diamond, finally realized that their fees were a competitive disadvantage. I actually heard the CEO state this. Nevertheless their fees are very high compared to the quality of the resorts. In my view this suggests inefficient management of the resorts.

I did some fee comparisons for 2016 and 2017 and they were shared in this thread:
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-of-other-points-based-systems-to-dri.244394/
 

CalGalTraveler

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Wow, $2700 for a week in a basic 2 bdrm of DRI quality? That's what we pay for OF on Maui at the Westin which is not a basic 2 bdrm. (And I think that is expensive except we can lock-off half to turn into 2 weeks ($1350/week OF HI) or rent half to cover MF so our stay is free.)

Even Embarc which are much nicer are much less MF.

This makes our Hilton MF a good value and is a tribute to how well HGVC is managed.

DRI management are idiots. How can DRI sell new VOIs when it is half the cost without the ownership capital and risk to stay at a hotel or AirBnB at this rate? It's no wonder their new customer acquisition % has nosedived and existing customers are upset. They squeezed all the juice out of the orange but never considered competition nor Apollo's goal to sell the company as an ongoing concern. Who'd want to buy that?

No wonder Apollo is desperate - they should start by firing the executives who got them into this mess.
 
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