American Idol Top 13: Anybody ready to place a bet?

[pjrose]

Haley's reaction when she learned she wasn't staying summed up, to me (for you, for me, dawg), exactly why I am glad she's gone. She was actually mad, kind of like, "What, how can I possibly be leaving???" As I've mentioned before, I don't think she's used to hearing the word no.

I agree. The look on her face was priceless.

Yup, noticed that too, and while shopping today talked to a salesperson who brought it up when saying why she didn't like Haley.

 

[Rose Pink]

I noticed it more on James than I did on Haley. Even the things he said sounded whiney and yet no one here is booing him. Give me a break. It's tough to get so close and then have it taken away. Pardon them if they display a moment of disappointment. Both of them regained their poise after the initial shock/disappointment.

 

[geoand]

Haley's reaction when she learned she wasn't staying summed up, to me (for you, for me, dawg), exactly why I am glad she's gone. She was actually mad, kind of like, "What, how can I possibly be leaving???" As I've mentioned before, I don't think she's used to hearing the word no.

I watched it for the second time looking for what you saw. All I could get was disappointment. You are obviously much better than I in your observational skills.

 

[laurac260]

I noticed it more on James than I did on Haley. Even the things he said sounded whiney and yet no one here is booing him. Give me a break. It's tough to get so close and then have it taken away. Pardon them if they display a moment of disappointment. Both of them regained their poise after the initial shock/disappointment.

Whiney??? The boy has autism and tourettes's. Anyone who knows someone who has either of those conditions was rooting for James, and also "got" why he was the way he was. The fact that he was there in itself was amazing. Give HIM a break!

 

[eakhat]

It's great that James went as far as he did, but I agree with RosePink's statement. Haley handled her disappointment with more poise. James basically told everyone they were making a big mistake. It sounded arrogant to me.

 

[tlwmkw]

It is harsh to say that James is arrogant (even if he sounds as if he is) when he has Asperger's- typically people with Aspergers are very literal and will say what they think/believe without reference to what other people think. That can seem arrogant but in his eyes he is just stating what he believes. That is also why he comes off as very honest- because he can't really help but be that way because of his condition- and people have picked up on that and like him for it. With Aspergers/spectrum disorders what you see is what you get- no phoniness because they just can't do that. I didn't see Haileys reaction but I'm sure she would be more guarded than James and try to act as if she didn't mind. It's human nature. Good luck to her and the finalists.

In the discussion about the current finalists and who was voted out I remembered that Carrie Underwood was accused of being "wooden" and not showing emotion when she was on AI- though Simon did say that she would win and sell more albums than any other Idol winner. Pia also was accused of these things and got voted off- Carrie went on and fulfilled Simon's prediction. Remember these are kids (and the final two are very young) and they may mature in good, as well as bad ways, that we can't predict. It all remains to be seen. I would love to hear what Simon thinks of the current group and their chances of success but of course he's busy with the X-factor.


tlwmkw

 

[laurac260]

It's great that James went as far as he did, but I agree with RosePink's statement. Haley handled her disappointment with more poise. James basically told everyone they were making a big mistake. It sounded arrogant to me.

As an aunt of a little guy with autism, we are just glad to hear him finally SPEAK. Will he ever say the wrong thing? Of course. But the fact that he is finally SPEAKING is monumental. James has tourettes AND autism. If a guy with MS tried out for So You Think You Can Dance, would you be so harsh if he physically stumbled on stage??? The fact that he was there was monumental. Everything else is icing. I applaud him. He puts a face on a condition that needed a face. Parents can look at James and say "If he can make it so far on AI, then the bar can be raised for my own little one. My guy/girl can achieve something too." Give the guy a break for crying out loud.

 

[pjrose]

As an aunt of a little guy with autism, we are just glad to hear him finally SPEAK. Will he ever say the wrong thing? Of course. But the fact that he is finally SPEAKING is monumental. James has tourettes AND autism. If a guy with MS tried out for So You Think You Can Dance, would you be so harsh if he physically stumbled on stage??? The fact that he was there was monumental. Everything else is icing. I applaud him. He puts a face on a condition that needed a face. Parents can look at James and say "If he can make it so far on AI, then the bar can be raised for my own little one. My guy/girl can achieve something too." Give the guy a break for crying out loud.

Where's the Like button?

 

[Rose Pink]

Oh, for Pete's sake. I'm also the aunt of a nephew with Asperger's. No one knows what is an another person's mind or the extent of their capabilities. If you read my post more carefully, you might notice that I was responding to the harsh comments made about Haley from adult tuggers. Now, if you have autism and just can't help yourself then okay. Let us know you can't help being "honest."

Otherwise, show some grace and stop condemning the girl for a moment of disappointment. Yes, I compared her to James as a point of reference but, again, if you read my post you'll notice that I did not condemn him, either. I asked that they both be pardoned for showing disappointment and noted they had both regained their poise.

Unless you know Haley personally, how can you presume to know her attitude or thoughts based on a brief moment or even on the more extended and edited clips AI chose to air? How do you know what her mental/emotional abilities are or aren't? Why is it so important to you to berate her on a public forum?

I just buried my dear FIL today. He was a man without guile who never said a harsh word about anyone, let alone strangers he only knew from a television show. I think this is the last season I shall watch or participate in a discussion forum. It just seems to me that some people have nothing better to do than to be mean.

 

[Eli Mairs]

As an aunt of a little guy with autism, we are just glad to hear him finally SPEAK. Will he ever say the wrong thing? Of course. But the fact that he is finally SPEAKING is monumental. James has tourettes AND autism. If a guy with MS tried out for So You Think You Can Dance, would you be so harsh if he physically stumbled on stage??? The fact that he was there was monumental. Everything else is icing. I applaud him. He puts a face on a condition that needed a face. Parents can look at James and say "If he can make it so far on AI, then the bar can be raised for my own little one. My guy/girl can achieve something too." Give the guy a break for crying out loud.

Well said!!!

 

[pjrose]

Oh, for Pete's sake. I'm also the aunt of a nephew with Asperger's. No one knows what is an another person's mind or the extent of their capabilities. If you read my post more carefully, you might notice that I was responding to the harsh comments made about Haley from adult tuggers. Now, if you have autism and just can't help yourself then okay. Let us know you can't help being "honest."

Otherwise, show some grace and stop condemning the girl for a moment of disappointment. Yes, I compared her to James as a point of reference but, again, if you read my post you'll notice that I did not condemn him, either. I asked that they both be pardoned for showing disappointment and noted they had both regained their poise.

Unless you know Haley personally, how can you presume to know her attitude or thoughts based on a brief moment or even on the more extended and edited clips AI chose to air? How do you know what her mental/emotional abilities are or aren't? Why is it so important to you to berate her on a public forum?

I just buried my dear FIL today. He was a man without guile who never said a harsh word about anyone, let alone strangers he only knew from a television show. I think this is the last season I shall watch or participate in a discussion forum. It just seems to me that some people have nothing better to do than to be mean.

Oh Rose Pink, dear dear Rose Pink, you've been under so much stress. I don't think anyone is being mean, but maybe some of us are being picky based on a 1/2 second long shocked expression. We need to remember that all of them are young people doing what most of us couldn't - performing and (usually) showing poise in front of tens of millions of people on live TV. Some have additional difficulties - James, the ones who had life-threatening illnesses or accidents, or family members die, or homes destroyed by Katrina.

I plead guilty to being snippy about Haley's expression.They are very young, and I can't imagine how hard it must be for most of them to smile and hug and say "it was a great experience" while inwardly they may be saying "oh crap".

Please don't leave us; we love you!

Hugs.

 

[nightnurse613]

OK, the show is over for me. I love C & W music but, I'm sorry, Scotty & Lauren in the finals? What did Simon say; a little too much karaoke - but good singing, nonetheless. This season did seem to have the best group of finalists. My husband was hoping James & Haley (he's a little bit R & R if you can't tell). I also agree that Haley was a little too much DIVA for me. Her expression when she was eliminated said it all to me. Scoot over Mrs. Mosca!

 

[Rose Pink]

Oh Rose Pink, dear dear Rose Pink, you've been under so much stress. I don't think anyone is being mean, but maybe some of us are being picky based on a 1/2 second long shocked expression. We need to remember that all of them are young people doing what most of us couldn't - performing and (usually) showing poise in front of tens of millions of people on live TV. Some have additional difficulties - James, the ones who had life-threatening illnesses or accidents, or family members die, or homes destroyed by Katrina.

I plead guilty to being snippy about Haley's expression.They are very young, and I can't imagine how hard it must be for most of them to smile and hug and say "it was a great experience" while inwardly they may be saying "oh crap".

Please don't leave us; we love you!

Hugs.

It isn't the stress, PJ. It's the contrast. I've spent this week arranging a funeral, writing an obituary, lining up the speakers and musical numbers and, finally, writing and delivering a eulogy of one of the kindest, gentlest persons I have ever known. All week I have been considering and pondering the life of a guileless person. Then to come to this thread and read denigrating comments about a young woman's character based on her brief, initial reaction to disappointment was like a slap in the face. Aren't we better than that? It's one thing to comment on what we think about a person's performance but quite another to make moral character judgements.

It's one thing to consider that the judges are not giving constructive criticism and quite another to think they are bad because they aren't as mean as Simon Cowell. Meaness is not the same as constructive.

I fear I have, in the past, made similar comments about people. I don't want to be like that. I don't want to be a character assassin. It's a type of violence. Isn't there enough violence and hatred in the world without adding to it with snide comments?

Can't we be better than that? We don't know who does or doesn't have "additional difficulties." Sure, some of them have been spotlighted but that doesn't mean the others do not have personal challenges. I just means they've kept it to themselves.

 

[scrapngen]

It isn't the stress, PJ. It's the contrast. I've spent this week arranging a funeral, writing an obituary, lining up the speakers and musical numbers and, finally, writing and delivering a eulogy of one of the kindest, gentlest persons I have ever known. All week I have been considering and pondering the life of a guileless person. Then to come to this thread and read denigrating comments about a young woman's character based on her brief, initial reaction to disappointment was like a slap in the face. Aren't we better than that? It's one thing to comment on what we think about a person's performance but quite another to make moral character judgements.

It's one thing to consider that the judges are not giving constructive criticism and quite another to think they are bad because they aren't as mean as Simon Cowell. Meaness is not the same as constructive.

I fear I have, in the past, made similar comments about people. I don't want to be like that. I don't want to be a character assassin. It's a type of violence. Isn't there enough violence and hatred in the world without adding to it with snide comments?

Can't we be better than that? We don't know who does or doesn't have "additional difficulties." Sure, some of them have been spotlighted but that doesn't mean the others do not have personal challenges. I just means they've kept it to themselves.

Sending my condolences and prayers for your family, Rose PInk...I know you've been through quite a bit and have been willing to share some of that here. Please stick around. I like reading your posts

Truly, when we lose a good person, it often makes us take a step back and look at ourselves as well. We also become very sensitive as our emotions are heightened. I mean no disrespect here - actually I admire you for saying how you feel. I would like to think that most people think of themselves as "good" and "kind." Yet we lose sight of that in our day to day interactions, sometimes. Here in the lounge, it's easy to armchair referee, and we feel we can say what's on our minds. I wish they didn't do some of the things they do or say some of the things they say, because it is remembered and talked about and shapes opinions about them. Actually, I start out pulling for all of them, but can't help wishing they'd get better advice before wearing some of the clothes they wear, or saying/doing some of the things they do. But these things do shape our opinions of them, for good or bad, and I think it's fair to say so.

TV has a way of being able to shape our opinions (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not) about the people we see - whether celebrities, politicians, or reality contestants. As you say, much of our perceptions are based on how the show is edited and what we get to see or not see. This is why it is hard when AI gives us back stories for some, but not other contestants. This plays into early voting, as there are people who make the final 12 who the audience is unfamiliar with, and others that have already gotten a lot of exposure. The kids are told to show spirit and fight, yet also to "make a connection" with the audience. Then the show gets edited. Scotty early on talked about his grandmother, and earned a lot of "aw, shucks" votes. Very little back story was ever given about Haley. It wasn't until they did the recap as she left the show that they touched upon the fact that this was her second attempt at making the show. Who knows how much work and effort she put in to making her dreams come true??

Still, ultimately it will come down to the music they make and their choices as to whether they will be successful artists or not. Looking back at the hundreds of contestants that have gotten national exposure, it has been interesting to see what they do next.

 

[Rose Pink]

I am not giving up or exiting Tug. I meant that I am most likely giving up on the next season of AI and discussions about it. As long as the discussions are about a performance I am okay with that. I am not okay with cruel character judgements and I am finding more than I care to find of that type of post.

And as much as I appreciate the condolences, I am not looking for them on this AI thread. I only meant to show my FIL's character as a point of reference to contrast between kindness and cruelty. I am not overwrought about Dad's passing. I am at peace because he is at peace. To have those peaceful feelings shattered while reading catty swipes at Haley's character--based on a facial expression no less--was like coming out of a warm, comfy bed and into a blasting sand storm.

Then to have my comment twisted into something it was not was a further cruelty--the remark about SYTYCD was just plain mean-spirited. It was an attempt to blow a smokescreen (using autism no less) to avoid discussing the issue I had raised. Then to have other tuggers jump on that band wagon made me realize just how out-of-step I am with the general feeling here that it is okay to judge someone's character based on her initial reaction to intense disappointment--as if you could really read her mind.

 

[tlwmkw]

I didn't watch this weeks show so I can't comment on any of the contestants reactions. Personally I don't have strong feelings about any of these kids- I wish them all success but fear they will be sucked in to the music industry and dread to think how they will be affected. My comments above weren't attacking anyone but simply to clarify how a person with a certain disorder (Asperger's) might act differently than those without it might expect.

tlwmkw

 

[Elan]

Rose Pink, FWIW, I'm behind you 100%.

If I had the ability to discern someone's thoughts and emotions from watching a 2 second video clip, I wouldn't be pissing my time away on a TS message board.

 

[fillde]

I just watched the 2 shows that I tivo'd. I can tell you Haley was gracious in losing. Neil sedaka looks younger and somebody at the beginning of the Wednesday show looked like Priscilla Presley. And Haley sings Benny and the Jets great.

 

[Karen G]

somebody at the beginning of the Wednesday show looked like Priscilla Presley.

I think that WAS Priscilla Presley.

 

[laurac260]

Then to have my comment twisted into something it was not was a further cruelty--the remark about SYTYCD was just plain mean-spirited. It was an attempt to blow a smokescreen (using autism no less) to avoid discussing the issue I had raised. Then to have other tuggers jump on that band wagon made me realize just how out-of-step I am with the general feeling here that it is okay to judge someone's character based on her initial reaction to intense disappointment--as if you could really read her mind.

No attempt being made to blow any smokescreen at anything. No attempt being made at being mean-spirited. I thought calling someone with autism and tourette's "whiny" was a bit over the top and I was simply pointing that out by using an analogy, as many people do, but I didn't use the term ""mean-spirited" toward your comment, as I don't think you intend to be mean spirited, nor do I. You speak your mind as you see it, as do I. Opinions are what they are. I understand you are going thru alot right now, so I get that you are feeling overwhelmed and sensitive to things that otherwise might not bother you. It happens to everyone. I am not one to twist words, never have been. It's not my style. Sorry you took it that way.

Haley's gone from the show, but she has her whole future ahead of her. What's done is done. Moving on.

 

[Rose Pink]

No attempt being made to blow any smokescreen at anything. No attempt being made at being mean-spirited. I thought calling someone with autism and tourette's "whiny" was a bit over the top and I was simply pointing that out by using an analogy, as many people do, but I didn't use the term ""mean-spirited" toward your comment, as I don't think you intend to be mean spirited, nor do I. You speak your mind as you see it, as do I. Opinions are what they are. I understand you are going thru alot right now, so I get that you are feeling overwhelmed and sensitive to things that otherwise might not bother you. It happens to everyone. I am not one to twist words, never have been. It's not my style. Sorry you took it that way.

Haley's gone from the show, but she has her whole future ahead of her. What's done is done. Moving on.

I did not call James "whiney." I said "the things he said sounded whiney." There is a difference and I chose my words carefully to differentiate between labeling a person as whiney versus noticing his choice of words sounded that way. I wish you would stop putting words in my mouth.

FWIW, I had competely forgotten he has autism. I'd like to believe he would want it that way. I would like to believe he would want to be judged on his talent. I'd like to think he would want us to vote for him because he deserves it and not because we feel sorry for him and make excuses for him. But there, now I've gotten sucked into the diversion.

And as I've already pointed out--twice--I am not suffering from being "overwhelmed" nor "sensitive to things that otherwise might not bother" me. I'd be bothered by your negative mind-reading assessment on any day. I just don't think those types of things are helpful to a discussion about a talent show. Keep it about what you like or don't like about the performance, not what thoughts you are reading in someone's mind.

 

[laurac260]

I did not call James "whiney." I said "the things he said sounded whiney." There is a difference and I chose my words carefully to differentiate between labeling a person as whiney versus noticing his choice of words sounded that way. I wish you would stop putting words in my mouth.

FWIW, I had competely forgotten he has autism. I'd like to believe he would want it that way. I would like to believe he would want to be judged on his talent. I'd like to think he would want us to vote for him because he deserves it and not because we feel sorry for him and make excuses for him. But there, now I've gotten sucked into the diversion.

And as I've already pointed out--twice--I am not suffering from being "overwhelmed" nor "sensitive to things that otherwise might not bother" me. I'd be bothered by your negative mind-reading assessment on any day. I just don't think those types of things are helpful to a discussion about a talent show. Keep it about what you like or don't like about the performance, not what thoughts you are reading in someone's mind.

Oh good grief. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are sensitive NOW. Truth be told, you are overly sensitive ALL THE TIME. I've better things to do than to trade 4th grade banterings back and forth. Actually, calling it 4th grade is an insult to the 4th grader that resides in my home. If I bother you that much, please put my posts on ignore. I'd be happy to do the same for you. I won't reply to your back and forth again.

 

[pjrose]

Group Hugs Please

The recent turn of this discussion has made me realize that this year some us us - me included - were focusing a lot on little stuff - mannerisms, growls, eyebrows, clothes.

I doubt I'll ever forget Simon's frequent pronouncements that "this is a SINGING competition," complete with his voice and delivery of course.

Perhaps the talk about little annoyances reflects the amount of talent these kids have, since there wasn't a whole lot else for many of us to comment about.

I'm looking forward to the shows on Tuesday and Wednesday night, when these talented teens entertain us - and I'm sure as heck hoping that whatever professionals they bring on have more class than some of the ones we've heard lately.

Let's all hug and focus on the entertainment and the poise of these two kids, and not on the little stuff or each other.

Group Hugs please.

 

[Rose Pink]

Hey, PJ, you get hugs. Lots of hugs.

 

[TUGBrian]

yikes, what happened to my idol thread.

lets keep it on topic please.