a very good retirement pension

[Brett]

Past threads here indicated California retirement pensions are exceedingly generous.

some firefighting couples get a 1/2 million a year in pensions and "disability" payments ........ a nice retirement package

in today's LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-drop-20180203-htmlstory.html

 

[WinniWoman]

Not just in California. NY is the same.

These are the people I always see when traveling on vacations who have retired earlier than the SS full retirement age. Firemen, policemen and teachers. And, of course, some private sector folks who have worked for big companies, maybe in executive positions, or those who worked in hospitals also. Some having actually 2 pensions because they retire early and get another job somehow with a pension as a second career.

Then you have married couples who are both collecting pensions. Very lucky.

We have a friend- he and his wife both have been retired like 15-20 years already and only in their late 60's. (We are in our early 60's). She was a teacher and he was a teacher and an IBM exec. I think they even have paid health insurance. He says they have more money than they know what to do with.

They recently sold their home here and moved to southern Florida to a really nice, big home. They are living the dream.

When we speak to him when he calls to say hello, and we talk about various matters, it is evident he doesn't remember that my husband and I do not have pensions and need health insurance which is why we are still working.

 

[Eric B]

I had a friend whose wife retired from the California Department of Corrections and wound up getting a raise with her pensions. Didn’t really make me feel bad, though; she got shot four times over her career and had a few instances where they implanted bones from cadavers to repair her injuries. With systems like these it’s inevitable that you’ll see bad actors taking advantage of them; people respond to incentives. On the other hand, that’s how they set up the system to reduce current costs for hazardous duty in a profession that prevents them from suing people that create the hazards they have to deal with. It strikes me that there’s a great need for intelligent compensation design and you can’t always count on politics getting you there because they, too, respond to incentives and voters don’t want to pay now.

 

[SmithOp]

Well written and researched article.

These are Public Safety Officer retirement pensions, not all public worker pensions are this inflated or have these special early retirement programs. They do give all public workers a bad rep, I would like to see them prosecuted for disability fraud, obviously the evidence is easy to obtain.

My wife and I have a combined total of 48 years state worker service and our pension combined is a tiny fraction of the ones discussed in this article.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[bogey21]

I have a great pension but earned it the hard way. About 10 years prior to retirement I and 11 other LT employees of our Bank went to our Board of Directors and suggested a deal. The deal was that we would take essentially zero raises until retirement if the Board would improve our Pension Plan. They did. One of the big changes was to add a cumulative annual 3% cost of living payment every year. I have been retired 16 years now which means this year's COLA was almost 50% of my annual pension. The deal worked out for everyone. Sure we lost current income but we paid taxes on lower income. The Company reduced current expenses. The loser, if there is one, is the company running the Pension Plan as I and many of the others impacted have out lived their actuarial assumptions.

George

 

[Passepartout]

It's pretty hard to fault people who saw early in their lives that a career in public service, while frequently paying less than 'civilian', or free market employment usually has a pension benefit that the private sector doesn't. I'd like a nickel for every time my parents told me to get a 'gov't job' instead of being a wage slave. I went to my 50th reunion a couple years ago, and it was painfully apparent who had made the right financial decision after school, and who hadn't.

Jim

 

[vacationhopeful]

Those faulting the private sector market ... I worked 9 years for an oil company. Until the "Great Recession of Nov 1982". The oil company (NYSE traded and founded in 1886) ... not exactly bankrupt ... downsized its employees base by 20% +/- .. due to the economy. Almost everyone not YET vested in the pension and OVER 4 years of employment got ZAPPED .. laid off .. terminated .. due to the ECONOMY. The real issue, was the company would be REQUIRED to FUND/VEST 5 additional PENSION CLASSES (not including the one that would come due normally) on Jan 1, 1983.

The politicians figured most YOUNG people did not want to be enslaved to a job for 10 years .. just change the law to 5 years for vesting and GET MORE VOTES or MORE CORPORATE DONATIONS.

Oil company paid me for 1 year ... 50% of my old salary, medical benefits and 90% tuition during that year to attend graduate college. I got an MBA during that year and my next job was a per diem contract computer consultant at a BIG CHEMICAL company for 3.5 years .. blue oval, corporate headquarters. I brought real estate ... which has been my income stream since 1987.

So look at where the jobs with pensions are ... it is NOT Corporate America.

 

[WinniWoman]

Those faulting the private sector market ... I worked 9 years for an oil company. Until the "Great Recession of Nov 1982". The oil company (NYSE traded and founded in 1886) ... not exactly bankrupt ... downsized its employees base by 20% +/- .. due to the economy. Almost everyone not YET vested in the pension and OVER 4 years of employment got ZAPPED .. laid off .. terminated .. due to the ECONOMY. The real issue, was the company would be REQUIRED to FUND/VEST 5 additional PENSION CLASSES (not including the one that would come due normally) on Jan 1, 1983.

The politicians figured most YOUNG people did not want to be enslaved to a job for 10 years .. just change the law to 5 years for vesting and GET MORE VOTES or MORE CORPORATE DONATIONS.

Oil company paid me for 1 year ... 50% of my old salary, medical benefits and 90% tuition during that year to attend graduate college. I got an MBA during that year and my next job was a per diem contract computer consultant at a BIG CHEMICAL company for 3.5 years .. blue oval, corporate headquarters. I brought real estate ... which has been my income stream since 1987.

So look at where the jobs with pensions are ... it is NOT Corporate America.

My husband has worked over 20 years for a giant national insurance company and they cut his pension off at the knees. Something we never expected to happen. He thought he was doing the right thing by working there. After they announced it, he was not in a position to leave as he was already older. Best laid plans.......

Me- my mom told me to be a nurse or a teacher. I wanted to be a homemaker and a freelance writer. We know how that worked out... LOL!

 

[vacationhopeful]

Jim,
The private sector companies did have pensions ... until the 5 year vesting change. Factories moved OFF SHORE to new plants and lower wages ,, but it was the US labor and PENSION rules. Why were we shipping crude overseas and importing light refined oil? I lived growing up with oil refineries and manufacturing industries.

The local Texaco refinery ... built when I was in high school, got sold to Sunoco, dis-assembled and the 'plant' was transported to South America (Eagle Point refinery in NJ). The tank farm is still there and operational as is the pipeline connections. Sunoco was BOUGHT by a pipeline company (ETP) who still MAYBE operates the Marcus Hook refinery, one in TX (Corpus Christi), OH (Toledo) and OK (Tulsa).

ETP is Energy Transfers Partnership. And the real incentive to BUY Sunoco, was for it's 8600 MILES of their pipeline network and right of ways. Sun Oil was an OLD company and SOME of its network pipelines had diameters of under 4" on "right of ways" thru all of PA and most of OH, into Michigan, down the east coast into the Gulf Coast.

 

[lizap]

It's pretty hard to fault people who saw early in their lives that a career in public service, while frequently paying less than 'civilian', or free market employment usually has a pension benefit that the private sector doesn't. I'd like a nickel for every time my parents told me to get a 'gov't job' instead of being a wage slave. I went to my 50th reunion a couple years ago, and it was painfully apparent who had made the right financial decision after school, and who hadn't.

Jim

This used to be true, but no more. Public sector salaries are often as much or more than similar ones in the private sector, plus lucrative retirement benefits.

 

[DeniseM]

Friendly suggestion: When I announced on TUG that I retired, there were people who responded critically to my happy announcement, because I was going to get a teacher's retirement pension. Remember that there are TUGGERS here who worked in government/public service/education and are receiving a pension. Let's not blame them for their good fortune, good planning and years of hard work.

 

[lizap]

Those faulting the private sector market ... I worked 9 years for an oil company. Until the "Great Recession of Nov 1982". The oil company (NYSE traded and founded in 1886) ... not exactly bankrupt ... downsized its employees base by 20% +/- .. due to the economy. Almost everyone not YET vested in the pension and OVER 4 years of employment got ZAPPED .. laid off .. terminated .. due to the ECONOMY. The real issue, was the company would be REQUIRED to FUND/VEST 5 additional PENSION CLASSES (not including the one that would come due normally) on Jan 1, 1983.

The politicians figured most YOUNG people did not want to be enslaved to a job for 10 years .. just change the law to 5 years for vesting and GET MORE VOTES or MORE CORPORATE DONATIONS.

Oil company paid me for 1 year ... 50% of my old salary, medical benefits and 90% tuition during that year to attend graduate college. I got an MBA during that year and my next job was a per diem contract computer consultant at a BIG CHEMICAL company for 3.5 years .. blue oval, corporate headquarters. I brought real estate ... which has been my income stream since 1987.

So look at where the jobs with pensions are ... it is NOT Corporate America.

The public sector is also cutting back on pensions. I have relatives who work for the federal government. Their retirement plan was converted to a hybrid plan (pension and 401k) several years ago. The public sector is being forced to operate more like the private sector every day, including things like merit pay and 401ks. I believe this trend will continue.

 

[Eric B]

Bear in mind that the several years ago for that conversion was in the late 80s; the old federal system was quite generous (~80% after 40+ years) and not under social security. It changed to a lower pension (1% per year served), plus a contribution match up to 5% in the TSP (401K equivalent), plus social security. Lately congress has been messing with the employee cost to participate in the pension and talking about reducing the fixed pension by changing its basis to 5 years of salary instead of 3 and reducing the COLA.

What they just did recently was change the military pension system to be similar to the federal system, albeit with a slightly more generous pension.

 

["Roger"]

I worked my entire life in Wisconsin and receive a very good pension from the state. (Not a six figure pension by any means.) Occasionally, I get a raise depending on how investments are doing. (My pension could also go down if the stock market crashes.) Now some other factors ...

The Wisconsin pension system is 99% funded. I can not say that for my wife who worked for in the private factor where her pension system is in danger of falling below the minimum allowable. It easy could have been 100% funded but upper management chose to pass out profits in good years to bonuses for executives (and not line workers). I can name lots of other private industries that have failed to adequately fund their pensions (as well as many other states). While working, I earned decidedly less than comparable private industry jobs. Some years when the private sector was getting good raises, I got none. The state legislature always said that they tried to make up for this by creating a good pension system for us plus a very good health insurance plan. In essence, we were trading lower salaries for more long run security (plus a dedication to public service).

 

[wilma]

This used to be true, but no more. Public sector salaries are often as much or more than similar ones in the private sector, plus lucrative retirement benefits.

Not true for highly skilled positions- engineers, scientists, physicians, etc. you would make 30-40% more in the privaye sector compared to the federal.

 

[Wyominguy]

There was a time in the 1990's when my years in the public retirement system looked to be a stupid choice compared to the private sector and 401K's. That turned around after 2008. Please note that not all public employees have defined benefit pensions, some opted for TIAA-Cref 4001K type of retirements when they were hired because they did not plan to stay in that state. After many years all of my colleagues who took that option wished they had not because they did not leave for other positions. Still, it is a choice. The state I worked in (I have since moved) has not given a cost of living increase in 5-6 years. The only increase I have seen is the one this month due to the decrease in withholding as a result of the tax cut legislation.

 

[lizap]

Not true for highly skilled positions- engineers, scientists, physicians, etc. you would make 30-40% more in the privaye sector compared to the federal.

There are many professional positions where it does hold true.. For example, there are engineering, business, etc.. professors making 200k+ at large research universities who would be unlikely to make this in the private sector.

 

[wilma]

There are many professional positions where it does hold true..

Not the types of positions i mentioned, and you are debating it...

 

[rapmarks]

My father took half pension so my mother would continue after he died. It meant 100 a month total, and fifty a month for my mother after he passed. And he worked til he was 72.
My husband and I are fortunate to have good pensions but I started at $5500 a year, my first eight years total was $64,000 and that was what I made the year I retired 35 years later, minus 12 percent which we put in toward our pension. The reason I made that much was I earned over one hundred graduate hours in courses that had to be pre approved and was also a department chairmen. Plus we faithfully contributed to ira and 403 b, and we lived on very little. So now we have a decent life, but I bet not many would have traded income with me, or spent evenings and weekends with take home work. Plus taking classes all summer for years and many weekends .we also don't receive any social security, we certainly never expected a big pension, but are thankful for it.

 

[pedro47]

Wow. California & New York State fire and police employees must be unionized . In the Commonwealth of Virginia and I believe fire departments , police departments and state troopers can receive between 70% to 80% in salary at retirement. This would be based upon the number of years in service and their age at retirement. They must have 25 years in service and be Fifty (50) years old. This formula would change if that employee was force to retire if he or she was disable. Also, in Virginia, state employees are non union.

 

[pedro47]

Can a retired police or a retired fire personnel received social security benefits in those states at age 62 or later at age 66?

 

[WinniWoman]

There was a time in the 1990's when my years in the public retirement system looked to be a stupid choice compared to the private sector and 401K's. That turned around after 2008. Please note that not all public employees have defined benefit pensions, some opted for TIAA-Cref 4001K type of retirements when they were hired because they did not plan to stay in that state. After many years all of my colleagues who took that option wished they had not because they did not leave for other positions. Still, it is a choice. The state I worked in (I have since moved) has not given a cost of living increase in 5-6 years. The only increase I have seen is the one this month due to the decrease in withholding as a result of the tax cut legislation.

I haven't had a raise in many, many years, except for last year they gave me a 2% raise after a supervisor- not my direct one-did me a favor and prompted it. The only one I have had.

My husband was getting like 2% raises (woopie!) and now they say he is capped. And he doesn't make no 6 figure income.

Believe me, the private sector is no bargain. Throw in the cost of health insurance with the high deductible plan, forgetaboutit.

Sigh... the state of things today....

 

[WinniWoman]

Wow. California & New York State fire and police employees must be unionized . In the Commonwealth of Virginia and I believe fire departments , police departments and state troopers can receive between 70% to 80% in salary at retirement. This would be based upon the number of years in service and their age at retirement. They must have 25 years in service and be Fifty (50) years old. This formula would change if that employee was force to retire if he or she was disable. Also, in Virginia, state employees are non union.

Yup. That's it. The unions.

 

[WinniWoman]

My father took half pension so my mother would continue after he died. It meant 100 a month total, and fifty a month for my mother after he passed. And he worked til he was 72.
My husband and I are fortunate to have good pensions but I started at $5500 a year, my first eight years total was $64,000 and that was what I made the year I retired 35 years later, minus 12 percent which we put in toward our pension. Plus we faithfully contributed to ira and 403 b, and we lived on very little. So now we have a decent life, but I bet not many would have traded income with me, or spent evenings and weekends with take home work. Plus taking classes all summer for years and many weekends .we also don't receive any social security, we certainly never expected a big pension, but are thankful for it.

Guess what? It's the same in the private sector. I was on call nights and weekends for years and my husband to this day has to bring work home. It's just the way it is no matter if public or private. Employers demand more and more. Do it or goodbye.

 

[VacationForever]

I can only say that many of the reports that I have read are regarding California state employees vs. the private sector. If you google it, you can find the data as well, in that public sector employees earn more than 30% over private sector employees for the same jobs, that is after adding in health and retirement benefits.

Here is one of the reports that I just found on google: https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/are-california-public-employees-overpaid

I have also read many more in-depth reports over the years, and even in liberal papers and they all point towards the same conclusion.

All I can say is that if I were to start all over again, I would have gone to work in the public sector. But wishful thinking would not be productive.