• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

A Guide to the Tax Changes

klpca

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
8,273
Reaction score
7,280
Points
749
Location
CA
Resorts Owned
SDO, Quarter House, Seapointe, Coronado Beach, Carlsbad Inn, Worldmark
Not true. Look at last year. Lots of rain but too few reservoirs to hold the water. It is called save for the drought days. Places like Folsom dam was letting out most of the water in fear of looding the dam, the water ran straight down the river into the sea. Southern California just lacks resevoirs.
No, really, we have them. We just don't ever get enough rain here. Even if we saved every drop. (10 inches per year).
 

MULTIZ321

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
31,266
Reaction score
8,995
Points
1,048
Location
FT. LAUDERDALE, FL
Resorts Owned
BLUEWATER BY SPINNAKER HHI
ROYAL HOLIDAY CLUB RHC (POINTS)
Dry Spell Raises Fears of Droughts Return in California
From Capital Public Radio/ Sacramento/ capradio.org

"PHILLIPS STATION, Calif. (AP) — It's been almost a year since Los Angeles residents felt any real rain, and precious little snow is in the Sierras, but water managers say it's too early for fears that California is sliding back into drought as abruptly as the state fell out of it.

Water officials carry out the first of their regular ritual winter snow measurements before news cameras on Wednesday. Plunging rods into snowpacks to measure the snow depth, water managers use the event to acquaint Californians with the state of the water supply. It's a crucial question in a semi-arid state with the U.S.'s biggest state economy, agricultural industry and population. In a normal year, nearly two-thirds of Californians' water supply starts as snow in the Sierras."

Richard
 

klpca

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
8,273
Reaction score
7,280
Points
749
Location
CA
Resorts Owned
SDO, Quarter House, Seapointe, Coronado Beach, Carlsbad Inn, Worldmark

VacationForever

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
16,199
Reaction score
10,612
Points
1,048
Location
Somewhere Out There
But weren't those floods in Northern Ca? Our socal reservoirs were just getting refilled. I wish we would get some rain here. It's dry as a bone.
Last winter, Southern CA had lots of floods and runoff... see some links here.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-beach-report-card-20170615-htmlstory.html

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-rain-la-20170123-story.html

The issue is the lack of reservoirs to retain water when heavy rain occurs. Without reserves, California is dry again the following year when there is no rain.

There are several solutions to the problem faced by California: build reservoirs, efficient use of water through recycling (more into that below) and desalination of sea water.

Due to water rights, Nevada only gets 2% of Colorado River water because Nevada had very low population when the Federal water rights were drawn. Since the state has grown in population, Nevada recycles water through reuse. We were told that 95% of the water that comes of a tap goes back into the system to be recycled/reused. We were often told that Nevadans can take those long hot showers, more so than those Californians are supposed to, because in Nevada water that goes down the drain gets back into the system. You can read about it here: https://www.snwa.com/ws/recycled.html
 
Last edited:

klpca

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
8,273
Reaction score
7,280
Points
749
Location
CA
Resorts Owned
SDO, Quarter House, Seapointe, Coronado Beach, Carlsbad Inn, Worldmark
Well I read those articles. The first one is about storm runoff from city streets into the ocean. Not anything you could get uphill to a reservoir. The second one mentions what I mentioned earlier - one good rain year does not fill reservoirs that haven't been filled during the drought years.

As a former Californian, you probably know that we've been under water rationing for years. We don't take long showers. We don't even have grass anymore. I keep a 5 gallon bucket in my tub to collect water while my shower heats up. (1 gallon saved per shower, btw). We have a desal plant in Carlsbad. Water is a huge issue in the West, and those who learn to conserve will be better off than those who are set in their ways (Palm Springs golf courses anyone?). Plus Ca has a huge water demand to grow crops that benefits everyone. Sorry that Nevada's allotment is so small. That will be a battle to resolve.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,374
Reaction score
18,934
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I came across info yesterday that stated interest from a home equity line/loan will no longer be deductible unless the funds were used to acquire or improve your residence.

With mortgage rates still low, wonder if there will be a spike in refinancing to move home equity debt over to a mortgage.
There should be no need. People with existing home equity line/loans are not impacted by the changes. Only those obtaining new lines/loans have the new restriction. There is a grandfather rule from what I have heard.
 

VacationForever

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
16,199
Reaction score
10,612
Points
1,048
Location
Somewhere Out There
Well I read those articles. The first one is about storm runoff from city streets into the ocean. Not anything you could get uphill to a reservoir. The second one mentions what I mentioned earlier - one good rain year does not fill reservoirs that haven't been filled during the drought years.

As a former Californian, you probably know that we've been under water rationing for years. We don't take long showers. We don't even have grass anymore. I keep a 5 gallon bucket in my tub to collect water while my shower heats up. (1 gallon saved per shower, btw). We have a desal plant in Carlsbad. Water is a huge issue in the West, and those who learn to conserve will be better off than those who are set in their ways (Palm Springs golf courses anyone?). Plus Ca has a huge water demand to grow crops that benefits everyone. Sorry that Nevada's allotment is so small. That will be a battle to resolve.

Good for you! What a role model! Do you know that since forever, Sacramento has/had a law that said there must be GREEN lawn outside every home otherwise they are/were breaking the law. Also, fake grass is/was outlawed since it would breakdown after something like 15 years and create environmental hazard. I think they were trying to change that law that a couple of years ago and I have no idea what the outcome was.
 

klpca

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
8,273
Reaction score
7,280
Points
749
Location
CA
Resorts Owned
SDO, Quarter House, Seapointe, Coronado Beach, Carlsbad Inn, Worldmark
Good for you! What a role model! Do you know that since forever, Sacramento has/had a law that said there must be GREEN lawn outside every home otherwise they are/were breaking the law. Also, fake grass is/was outlawed since it would breakdown after something like 15 years and create environmental hazard. I think they were trying to change that law that a couple of years ago and I have no idea what the outcome was.
We did the desert landscape thing, but a lot of my neighbors have the fake grass - it looks pretty good. I'm sick and tired of drought but we're right back in it. Can't do much about the weather though.
 

"Roger"

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,414
Reaction score
3,213
Points
598
...We were told that 95% of the water that comes of a tap goes back into the system to be recycled/reused. We were often told that Nevadans can take those long hot showers, more so than those Californians are supposed to, because in Nevada water that goes down the drain gets back into the system. You can read about it here: https://www.snwa.com/ws/recycled.html
Just curious about the 95% figure. I would love for it to be true, but the link you provide says that 40% of the water used is reclaimed with 90% of that 40% for indirect use. That is actually very good, but far short of 95%.
 

mdurette

Sighting Expert & TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
7,693
Reaction score
5,289
Points
748
Location
New England
There should be no need. People with existing home equity line/loans are not impacted by the changes. Only those obtaining new lines/loans have the new restriction. There is a grandfather rule from what I have heard.

This article states nobody will be grandfathered:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickcl...-lose-home-equity-tax-deduction/#60f203546cdf

With current mortgage rates below current prime rate (which HELOCs are based off of) then I can see people with large HELOC balances moving the debt over. A lot of people have 30 year mortgages around 3.25%. It may make sense to consolidate 1st and HELOC to maintain the rate on the 1st.
 

bobpark56

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
1,694
Reaction score
375
Points
444
Location
Gibsonia, PA (just north of Pittsburgh)
Resorts Owned
Westin Lagunamar, Westin Aventuras, Marriott Grande Vista, Sandos Caracol, Festiva, Diamond Resorts (Hawaii Collection)
Who knows what the banks will do? I know there's a limit as to how much of their deposits they can lend out.
You missed the point. What gets stashed in banks gets turned over into the economy (via loans, etc.) and primes the economy. It is not hoarded, as the early poster implied.
 

bobpark56

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
1,694
Reaction score
375
Points
444
Location
Gibsonia, PA (just north of Pittsburgh)
Resorts Owned
Westin Lagunamar, Westin Aventuras, Marriott Grande Vista, Sandos Caracol, Festiva, Diamond Resorts (Hawaii Collection)
...and you really think it won't be extended? Everyone loves a tax cut. It will be extended and I expect even more reduction at that time because no party at that time will ever let it expire.
But one of our political parties loves to "tax the rich." If and when they have the power, it would not surprise me to to see the tax cuts expire...at least at the upper ends. They have done so before, if you recall.
 

bobpark56

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
1,694
Reaction score
375
Points
444
Location
Gibsonia, PA (just north of Pittsburgh)
Resorts Owned
Westin Lagunamar, Westin Aventuras, Marriott Grande Vista, Sandos Caracol, Festiva, Diamond Resorts (Hawaii Collection)
The only thing I have been saying is the common comment that the high tax states are finally going to pay their fair share is dead wrong. In reality they have been paying over their fair share (see links I have posted). We can argue whether them paying more is good or bad, but at least be honest and not berate them for something they have not done. I would think if not appreciation for them subsidizing other states at least understand that they do actually do this.

I do not know what problem I am complaining about was caused by the high tax states. The only problem you may see is raising their federal taxes. I do not see that as a problem except if the reason was to politically punish a specific group. And I will say again it is not really fair to ask the people that already get the least back for their dollars to pay more, but as we can see by this thread taxes are rarely considered fair.
What some see as punishment, others see as incentive.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,374
Reaction score
18,934
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
This article states nobody will be grandfathered:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickcl...-lose-home-equity-tax-deduction/#60f203546cdf

With current mortgage rates below current prime rate (which HELOCs are based off of) then I can see people with large HELOC balances moving the debt over. A lot of people have 30 year mortgages around 3.25%. It may make sense to consolidate 1st and HELOC to maintain the rate on the 1st.
You are correct. I was confusing this change with the change of mortgage interest deduction on first mortgage loans of 750,000, down from 1,000,000. There was a grandfathering with that change.
 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,968
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
Reading all the responses I feel the frustration.

I came from a poor family. I worked my butt off multiple jobs to be able to retire early. I am not rich but I am a success story in the USA, a child of two immigrants that went to college and made something of myself and instead of poor am comfortable middle class.

With that said, some people I know choose not to work a higher paying job because they do not want to lose entitlements. Lets me add there are many who need our help as they did everything right but hit hard times.

Some friends who were as poor as me growing up and emerged much wealthier then me are also a success story. I do not feel they have to support me with paying higher personnel income taxes as they worked very hard to get where they got. We have to reward success so others strive for it.

Is there ever going to be an easy solution to taxes, no, but it is very important to see both sides of equation no matter what you believe, thats how productive changes happen, meeting in the middle.

My personal opinion, no personal income tax, flat sales tax on everything else. For the needy a card that exempts them from the tax.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,374
Reaction score
18,934
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
My personal opinion, no personal income tax, flat sales tax on everything else. For the needy a card that exempts them from the tax.
This has long been proposed as the Fair Tax, but has never gone anywhere. The basic thought is that companies don't pay taxes, customers do. Since in the end, taxes are a cost of doing business and the customer pays for everything. So simply move the taxes to the customer would make sense. Pricing is then taken over by the free market and companies will lower prices to compete since they won't have to pay taxes anymore.
 

VacationForever

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
16,199
Reaction score
10,612
Points
1,048
Location
Somewhere Out There
Just curious about the 95% figure. I would love for it to be true, but the link you provide says that 40% of the water used is reclaimed with 90% of that 40% for indirect use. That is actually very good, but far short of 95%.
I don't know and that link does not say 95%. That number has been frequently quoted, including a friend working at the Federal water board here. This one gives me a chuckle... we are drinking toilet water. https://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/aug/24/how-our-water-goes-toilet-tap/

Tips for California: https://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/apr/27/tips-california-what-nevada-has-done-conserve-wate/
 

WinniWoman

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
10,762
Reaction score
7,057
Points
749
Location
The Weirs, New Hampshire
Resorts Owned
Innseason Pollard Brook
One of several reasons I am not crazy about the idea moving out West- water.
 

WinniWoman

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
10,762
Reaction score
7,057
Points
749
Location
The Weirs, New Hampshire
Resorts Owned
Innseason Pollard Brook
...yeah, but you can't beat the weather, no snow unless you go up to the mountain.

Yes- that certainly is a BIG plus! But you probably could use some for the water.
 

VacationForever

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
16,199
Reaction score
10,612
Points
1,048
Location
Somewhere Out There
Yes- that certainly is a BIG plus! But you probably could use some for the water.

We actually do not have water restrictions here, only that no home owner is allowed to put a real green lawn at the home. You may put in desert landscape or fake grass. We can have those long showers and hosing down the driveway etc. ;)

When we were in California, water restrictions were very severe. We were not allowed to hose down a driveway or anything outside the home, we were not allowed to wash cars, watering of lawn went down to 1 day before they decided to allow 2 days. Initially watering of trees and plants were also down to 1 day but it caused the death of many trees and plants, and restrictions were revised to 3 times a week. Water was not allowed to be run out/down to the pavement and streets otherwise you get fined. Neighbors were reporting one another to the authorities, reminding us of the communist era of Mao and Stalin.
 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,968
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
This has long been proposed as the Fair Tax, but has never gone anywhere. The basic thought is that companies don't pay taxes, customers do. Since in the end, taxes are a cost of doing business and the customer pays for everything. So simply move the taxes to the customer would make sense. Pricing is then taken over by the free market and companies will lower prices to compete since they won't have to pay taxes anymore.
I intentionally said personal income tax. Corporations can have a tax too. Yes, if they did they just pass the costs to us but many would feel better if corporations weres taxed. It could be a flat tax for them too.
 

bluehende

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,507
Reaction score
3,967
Points
598
What some see as punishment, others see as incentive.

I think we will view the incentive differently. Is the incentive for high tax states to lower their level of taxes? Wouldn't this hurt their economies as the services deteriorate and people and companies flee for this reason. Then the only alternative would be to rely on the federal government like all the other states.

I will use my state as an example. DE gets the lowest percentage of any state of their budget from the federal government. For us to get to the average we would need almost 20% of our budget in additional money from the federal government. So if we bring our taxes in line would you like the Federal Government to give us 500 million dollars a year. That is what it would take and we are a state of only 1 million. Imagine if CA or NY demanded the same.
 
Top